Armory Sponsor
Posted: 5/14/2012 10:49:52 AM EDT
|
Curiosity has gotten the best of me. I'm wondering about the paddle part. When you install a ll and close both upper and lower, will the ll hit the metal of the bolt carrier behind the rear lug of the upper? Also, when the bolt carrier cycles how does that paddle piece not get bent/wedged either in buffer tube or the other way up between rear lug and bottom of bolt carrier.
Fyi I have no intention of fabricating a ll. When you own these rifles and you see things online it sparks a natural curiosity how certain things work. |
| Good info on LL's at http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/lightninglink.html |
|
Quoted:
Curiosity has gotten the best of me. I'm wondering about the paddle part. When you install a ll and close both upper and lower, will the ll hit the metal of the bolt carrier behind the rear lug of the upper? Also, when the bolt carrier cycles how does that paddle piece not get bent/wedged either in buffer tube or the other way up between rear lug and bottom of bolt carrier. Fyi I have no intention of fabricating a ll. When you own these rifles and you see things online it sparks a natural curiosity how certain things work. Generally no, the upper wil not close in the normal shotgun manner hinging off the front pivot pin. The proper way (or at least to me the proper way) to put an upper on a lower with a link is it is to pull both front and rear takedown pins. You then use the charging handle to pull the bolt back a fraction of an inch and lift the front of the upper off the lower until the bolt clears the link paddle. Reattaching the upper is a reverse of this process. You lead with the rear of the upper and bolt carrier into the buffer tube with the bolt slightly pulled back. Once you do it a few times it become second nature. There is no way the link could go into the buffer tube as it sits in front of the carrier circle. However, yes over time the link paddle will bend it the gun is not timed properly. Ideally when I set up my link guns I want the link to end up with almost no binding between the lug and carrier. When you pull the trigger the link should go from a " | " position to a " / " position as the disconnector pulls the link forward. The bolt when closing then hits the link and brings it back from a " / " position to a " | " position pulling the disconnector backwards releasing the hammer. However, if the link goes from a " / " to a " \ " position when the bolt hits it than it will eventually bend and the paddle will need to be replaced or bent back into shape. |
|
I've had some guns where, after the initial bend shaped the paddle, I could actually just close the upper and lower by pivoting without removing both pins. On an old AR15-A2 Sporter II, in particular, there was just enough gap that the paddle could wiggle under the lip of the carrier.
But on most setups, it's just easier to pull both pins, slide the paddle under the carrier as you join the halves, and reinsert your takedown and pivot pins. |
|
Quoted:
Were all of your guns timed perfectly once you dropped it in? Is it safe to fire if the the hammer trips just as the bolt passes over without delay? Somestimes there's a delay, sometimes there isn't. Will it just cycle faster or will it damage it? There's no more danger of damage than with an early or late timed auto sear. LL is not a "slam fire conversion" as so many incorrectly seem to believe. Late or early timing might slightly change ROF, but usually just leads to the gun not working, due to hammer follow or bolt bounce. My very first LL came with two paddles - one thick and one thin. they were approximately .030" and .050" in thickness, iirc. I never came across a rifle that wouldn't work with one of those two. In the past seven or eight years, I've been running only on replacement paddles I manufactured in bulk about eight years ago, with a nice spring steel stock about .032" in thickness. Those have timed adequately in every upper and lower combo I've ever dropped them into, but my supply of paddles lets me use a new paddle for every combo, so the initial forming step may be helping with that track record. DPMS lowers are my LL host of choice, since they have correct SP-1 spec interior dimensions, and my LLs can just drop right in, although I've used Colt, Bushmaster, Olympic, EA, and Cavalry lowers in past incarnations. DPMS semi carriers are also still perfect drop-ins for use with LL, or were that last time I bought some a few years back. Bushmaster used to work great, then they changed their radius six years ago or so, and they no longer worked as-is. Colt was perfect, too, but they of course have fiddled with their carrier designs extensively over the past decade. |
|
Quoted:
Are you LL guys running those KNS reinforcers? Are spikes lowers of SP1 style? Oh and how many Auto connectors are there? I haven't bothered, most people seem to do it these days, though. Paddles have to be modified to work with one, and lowers or takedown pin posts usually need to altered for extra clearance. Spike's are low shelf, but not SP1. They will work with a DIAS drop-in, but have to be milled for clearance to use an LL. Serial numbers go up to AC525 from what I've read. If they started at 001, then there are 525 made and registered by SWD, plus at least Max Atchisson's handmade and transferrable registered prototype. Might be fewer, as I've never seen or heard of anything below AC1xx, so SWD might have started numbering at 100 instead of 001. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Are you LL guys running those KNS reinforcers? Are spikes lowers of SP1 style? Oh and how many Auto connectors are there? I haven't bothered, most people seem to do it these days, though. Paddles have to be modified to work with one, and lowers or takedown pin posts usually need to altered for extra clearance. ok explains why it came with a DPMS lower Spike's are low shelf, but not SP1. They will work with a DIAS drop-in, but have to be milled for clearance to use an LL. oh Serial numbers go up to AC525 from what I've read. If they started at 001, then there are 525 made and registered by SWD, plus at least Max Atchisson's handmade and transferrable registered prototype. Might be fewer, as I've never seen or heard of anything below AC1xx, so SWD might have started numbering at 100 instead of 001. very cool, thanks!! |
|
Quoted:
Why would someone want to convert a rll to a dias? Ummm ... because they can be used with many more specific uppers and applications than RLLs; because they are safe/semi/auto instead of just safe/auto; and because RDIAS have a higher market value, so if you buy an RLL for $7k and unlawfully convert it to an RDIAS, you can sell it for more than twice what you paid for it. |
|
Quoted:
Maybe I'm missing the point.... How do you create a dias from a rll? Legally, you can't. Some were done back in the early 2000s by at least one SOT who claimed to have approval for his "conversion" process. I never heard anything more about it after early 2003. I've never actually seen one in person - but apparently the body of the link was cut/bent/wrapped and welded or bonded to a piece of steel that was then machined the rest of the way into a DIAS. Or some might have just been a guy buying one of those shotgun news DIAS and stamping/engraving it with the same markings as their LL, then tossing or hiding away the actual LL. |
|
I have seen a RLL turned into a DIAS in person. It was actually offered to me for purchase by the guy who sold me my first machinegun. He actually didnt even know it was a coverted link until I pointed out that his DIAS had a AC prefix serial and he looked closely and noticed the metal differnce between the DIAS body and the SN serial number stip of metal. The one he had was just the body of the link with the serial cut out and installed into a slot on the bottom of a DIAS. There was no bend or anything of the link, just a small .5 inch section of link grafted to the bottom of a DIAS.
He ended up selling it to somebody else after a phone conversation with somebody at the old DC ATF branch said they didnt care. The C2 who "claimed" to have the conversion letter was Tim Bixler if memory serves correctly, but I am pretty sure there were a bunch of unscruplous dearler/C2 who did this by taking a 1K link and turning it to a 4K DIAS at the time. |
|
Quoted:
i'm finding it hard to believe there are only 500 LL's out there. There may be 500 registered and however many converted into DIAS. I still don't know how or why they would do this but to each his own. $200 wasn't chump change in 1985. Why would you spend that on a little piece of metal when you could buy a much more versatile registered receiver? That is if, a big if, you could somehow negotiate a sign off on it. |
Armory Sponsor