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Posted: 5/5/2011 8:39:41 PM EDT
Has anyone ever known of Sendra receivers? I have a AR-15 BFI receiver that was converted to select fire by Sendra, but the receiver was made by BFI. So I know that Sendra did some conversions, but did they ever make any AR receivers? 
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I ahve a Sendra lower that was converted by BFI and it works 100% They are some of the most desried conversions other than colts.. I've got a Sendra conversion by an individual, runs great! I've also got a another AR Sendra lower, the one with the circle milled into it on the right hand side of the magwell. They are good tough lowers and quite desirable! |
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I have a AR-15 BFI receiver that was converted to select fire by Sendra, but the receiver was made by BFI. I think you may have it backwards, or maybe I do  . I believe it is a Sendra lower converted by BFI a.k.a. Bushmaster. When I was looking for my M16, I wanted either a Sendra/BFI conversion or a Factory Colt M16. They are top notch conversions from all the research that I have done.
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Has anyone ever known of Sendra receivers? I have a AR-15 BFI receiver that was converted to select fire by Sendra, but the receiver was made by BFI. So I know that Sendra did some conversions, but did they ever make any AR receivers? Actually you have a Sendra receiver that was converted by Bushmaster (BFI). Sendra was one of the very few milspec lower manufacturers other than Colt in the pre-86 days. They went out of business and Bushmaster bought their tooling, which got Bushmaster started in volume AR-15 production. As far as I know Sendra never made any full auto lowers - but many, many Sendra lowers were converted to machineguns by many, many Class 2 manufacturers before the 1986 ban went into effect. The Sendras converted by BFI are among the most desirable of the non-factory M16s because the lowers are good to go, and the BFI machine work enjoys an excellent reputation in the NFA community. |
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Actually you have a Sendra receiver that was converted by Bushmaster (BFI). Sendra was one of the very few milspec lower manufacturers other than Colt in the pre-86 days. They went out of business and Bushmaster bought their tooling, which got Bushmaster started in volume AR-15 production. Amazing that Sendra actually made decent lower receivers, because in those days Nesard and Drasen were always considered to carry low quality parts (now Model 1 Sales and M&A Parts, I believe). |
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I thougth it came out in the Waco stuff that the Sendra lowers were made for them by LAR? "... made for them by LAR?" Well, it depends on how you define "made." At any given time over the last 50 +/- years since Gene Stoner designed the AR15, there have been between three and six facilities capable of making AR lowr receiver forgings, and supplying the industry with what are commonly but inaccurately called "80% forgings." A forge capable of forging an AR receiver is bigger than my house; probably bigger than yours, too, unless you are Bill Gates. They are not common. So LAR, which has been around since 1968, may or may not have been the company which created the raw forgings from which Sendra machined its lower receivers. But that does not make the lowers LAR receivers, any more than the mine which produced the copper, magnesium, manganese, zinc or silicon is the company which produced the lowers. Now, of those three-to-six forges which created the raw forgings, each had a different price level depending on quality and quality control. Which is why you can have Noveske and Model One forgings coming from the same source: You can contract for the cheapest forgings, or the ones made under the most stringent QC. Sendra –– Ken Drasen's company, along with Nesard, Model One, etc. –– bought 'em as cheap as they could. So the forging quality is far from the best. OTOH, when the forgings arrived at Sendra, the milling and finishing was by far better than anyone at the time (the early 1980s) than Colt. Thus, the semi Sendra host receivers were closest to being in-spec ... though the forgings often had voids or other issues. And that is the only potential drawback to Sendras as transferable receiver hosts: The machining is near-perfect, but you do need to be aware of the raw-forging potential issues. And to return to your original post: LAR, or anyone else, may have made the raw forgings. But what they supplied was not a firearm under ATF's definition. Instead, they supplied raw materials to Ken Drasen's Sendra corporation, which took those raw materials and manufactured firearms, thus becoming the maker of record. HTH. YMMV. 
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I thougth it came out in the Waco stuff that the Sendra lowers were made for them by LAR? "... made for them by LAR?" Well, it depends on how you define "made." At any given time over the last 50 +/- years since Gene Stoner designed the AR15, there have been between three and six facilities capable of making AR lowr receiver forgings, and supplying the industry with what are commonly but inaccurately called "80% forgings." A forge capable of forging an AR receiver is bigger than my house; probably bigger than yours, too, unless you are Bill Gates. They are not common. So LAR, which has been around since 1968, may or may not have been the company which created the raw forgings from which Sendra machined its lower receivers. But that does not make the lowers LAR receivers, any more than the mine which produced the copper, magnesium, manganese, zinc or silicon is the company which produced the lowers. Now, of those three-to-six forges which created the raw forgings, each had a different price level depending on quality and quality control. Which is why you can have Noveske and Model One forgings coming from the same source: You can contract for the cheapest forgings, or the ones made under the most stringent QC. Sendra –– Ken Drasen's company, along with Nesard, Model One, etc. –– bought 'em as cheap as they could. So the forging quality is far from the best. OTOH, when the forgings arrived at Sendra, the milling and finishing was by far better than anyone at the time (the early 1980s) than Colt. Thus, the semi Sendra host receivers were closest to being in-spec ... though the forgings often had voids or other issues. And that is the only potential drawback to Sendras as transferable receiver hosts: The machining is near-perfect, but you do need to be aware of the raw-forging potential issues. And to return to your original post: LAR, or anyone else, may have made the raw forgings. But what they supplied was not a firearm under ATF's definition. Instead, they supplied raw materials to Ken Drasen's Sendra corporation, which took those raw materials and manufactured firearms, thus becoming the maker of record. HTH. YMMV. 
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I thougth it came out in the Waco stuff that the Sendra lowers were made for them by LAR? "... made for them by LAR?" Well, it depends on how you define "made." At any given time over the last 50 +/- years since Gene Stoner designed the AR15, there have been between three and six facilities capable of making AR lowr receiver forgings, and supplying the industry with what are commonly but inaccurately called "80% forgings." A forge capable of forging an AR receiver is bigger than my house; probably bigger than yours, too, unless you are Bill Gates. They are not common. So LAR, which has been around since 1968, may or may not have been the company which created the raw forgings from which Sendra machined its lower receivers. But that does not make the lowers LAR receivers, any more than the mine which produced the copper, magnesium, manganese, zinc or silicon is the company which produced the lowers. Now, of those three-to-six forges which created the raw forgings, each had a different price level depending on quality and quality control. Which is why you can have Noveske and Model One forgings coming from the same source: You can contract for the cheapest forgings, or the ones made under the most stringent QC. Sendra –– Ken Drasen's company, along with Nesard, Model One, etc. –– bought 'em as cheap as they could. So the forging quality is far from the best. OTOH, when the forgings arrived at Sendra, the milling and finishing was by far better than anyone at the time (the early 1980s) than Colt. Thus, the semi Sendra host receivers were closest to being in-spec ... though the forgings often had voids or other issues. And that is the only potential drawback to Sendras as transferable receiver hosts: The machining is near-perfect, but you do need to be aware of the raw-forging potential issues. And to return to your original post: LAR, or anyone else, may have made the raw forgings. But what they supplied was not a firearm under ATF's definition. Instead, they supplied raw materials to Ken Drasen's Sendra corporation, which took those raw materials and manufactured firearms, thus becoming the maker of record. HTH. YMMV.
The raw forging is not a gun yet. Just like you can buy an 80% lower with no AF paperwork.. |
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OTOH, when the forgings arrived at Sendra, the milling and finishing was by far better than anyone at the time (the early 1980s) than Colt. Thus, the semi Sendra host receivers were closest to being in-spec ... though the forgings often had voids or other issues. And that is the only potential drawback to Sendras as transferable receiver hosts: The machining is near-perfect, but you do need to be aware of the raw-forging potential issues. As always, Tony, you are a valuable asset full of knowledge. As someone who is currently looking for good value in an M16 lower let me ask this - do you expect any of the other non-Colt conversions (which more than likely means Olympic) to be built on better forged receivers? The better fit/finish/more precise machining of the Sendra's is great, but as long as the holes are in the right place and the manufacturer did not remove too much material when machining then I would expect someone like M60Joe and and US Anodizing could bring it into near perfect spec and make it look as new and it be made on a better forged receiver. Is that incorrect thinking? But that is only if the other non-Colt manufacturers used better forged receivers than Sendra to begin with which is mainly my question. |
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Short answer: An AR's lower receiver is an unstressed component. As long as it is in-spec, I pay more attention to wear-and-tear than to the name on the side of it. When it comes to non-Colt conversion RRs, I would rather buy an as-new cast receiver than a forged one that has been ridden hard and put away wet.
Long answer: I would prefer to pay another $2k and get a factory Colt, and avoid all the issues. But I know how tight money is, and sometimes that's not possible. Personally, the next cheaper alternative would be to look for an SP1 conversion and bush the takedown pin holes, because you know the host receiver was both made from the best forging possible and machined by Colt to be in-spec. The only potential issue is the location of the autosear pin hole. But the market values SP1 conversions lower than non-Colt conversions.
Olympic ARs were built on better forgings than Sendras but can be incredibly out-of-spec. Too-tight magwells, top decks that are too high, rear takedown pin holes out of alignment. By the time you are done fixing them, you might have well just started with a virgin block of aluminum, because there's not much left of the original machining. And when you start doing that extensive of a rework on a 30-year-old piece of aluminum, you can have problems –– hidden stress lines developed from use/misuse over time, complicated by the heat generated by the present-time remachining. So I'm not a fan of Olys. So you've got Olys as the most out-of-spec conversion RRs and Sendras as the most in-spec conversions, with everything else in-between. There is no perfect solution ... except to fork out the extra $$$ and pay for a factory Colt MG. 
BTW, while aluminum can be welded if done by a pro, the welds are disruptive and create their own stresses. Usually, the weld metal is harder than the surrounding metal, which transfers any stresses to the remaining undamaged area. So while I wouldn't hesitate to fix a broken receiver (or rather, to pay someone else to do it), welding is not appropriate for solely cosmetic reasons ... and if it can be avoided altogether, all the better. Just don't buy this one, a good example of "ridden hard and put away wet": 
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Quoted: Olympic ARs were built on better forgings than Sendras but can be incredibly out-of-spec. Too-tight magwells, top decks that are too high, rear takedown pin holes out of alignment. By the time you are done fixing them, you might have well just started with a virgin block of aluminum, because there's not much left of the original machining. And when you start doing that extensive of a rework on a 30-year-old piece of aluminum, you can have problems –– hidden stress lines developed from use/misuse over time, complicated by the heat generated by the present-time remachining. So I'm not a fan of Olys. So you've got Olys as the most out-of-spec conversion RRs and Sendras as the most in-spec conversions, with everything else in-between. There is no perfect solution ... except to fork out the extra $$$ and pay for a factory Colt MG. I bought a Frankfort Arsenal M16 with a Olympic lower, late March, it just arrived at my dealer yesterday, I brought my upper from my LE6940, Magpul Mags, calipers and misc tools, I'm no expert by any means but from what I could tell it's in spec.. Sent the paperwork in yesterday so let the waiting begin 
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Olympic ARs were built on better forgings than Sendras but can be incredibly out-of-spec. Too-tight magwells, top decks that are too high, rear takedown pin holes out of alignment. By the time you are done fixing them, you might have well just started with a virgin block of aluminum, because there's not much left of the original machining. And when you start doing that extensive of a rework on a 30-year-old piece of aluminum, you can have problems –– hidden stress lines developed from use/misuse over time, complicated by the heat generated by the present-time remachining. So I'm not a fan of Olys. So you've got Olys as the most out-of-spec conversion RRs and Sendras as the most in-spec conversions, with everything else in-between. There is no perfect solution ... except to fork out the extra $$$ and pay for a factory Colt MG.
I bought a Frankfort Arsenal M16 with a Olympic lower, late March, it just arrived at my dealer yesterday, I brought my upper from my LE6940, Magpul Mags, calipers and misc tools, I'm no expert by any means but from what I could tell it's in spec.. Sent the paperwork in yesterday so let the waiting begin As I said, Olys "can" be out-of-spec, but that leaves room for some that were 100% in-spec. Add to that the 25 years since the newest transferable one was made and you're to the point where many/most have been brought into spec by subsequent owners. But it's still an issue that potential buyers should be aware of. |
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Olympic ARs were built on better forgings than Sendras but can be incredibly out-of-spec. Too-tight magwells, top decks that are too high, rear takedown pin holes out of alignment. By the time you are done fixing them, you might have well just started with a virgin block of aluminum, because there's not much left of the original machining. And when you start doing that extensive of a rework on a 30-year-old piece of aluminum, you can have problems –– hidden stress lines developed from use/misuse over time, complicated by the heat generated by the present-time remachining. So I'm not a fan of Olys. So you've got Olys as the most out-of-spec conversion RRs and Sendras as the most in-spec conversions, with everything else in-between. There is no perfect solution ... except to fork out the extra $$$ and pay for a factory Colt MG.
I bought a Frankfort Arsenal M16 with a Olympic lower, late March, it just arrived at my dealer yesterday, I brought my upper from my LE6940, Magpul Mags, calipers and misc tools, I'm no expert by any means but from what I could tell it's in spec.. Sent the paperwork in yesterday so let the waiting begin Tony speaks the gospel. 
I do love my Oly/PAWS RR but I can say that the mag release, relief, is not in spec on it. Not a problem at all with AR magazines, but with my Hahn 9MM mag block in place, the catch "don't catch". I don't have this problem on my other AR's (Noveske, Laurer) and did try the same mag catch just to make sure I wasn't losing it.  To fix this, I simply bent the mag catch a little and it work. Not a huge deal, not the end of the world and everything else is AOK. I have Now that Colt Tony posted, that is a real piece of work, sad to see that but I would imagine (hope) it was a post sample beat up by a dealer. If not, the owner who did that needs to be beat! 
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Has anyone ever known of Sendra receivers? I have a AR-15 BFI receiver that was converted to select fire by Sendra, but the receiver was made by BFI. So I know that Sendra did some conversions, but did they ever make any AR receivers? I have one and it runs like a top, and so does my brother some would have to be fitted at bit to get the upper and lower to close correctly, but not all, |
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good thread and info....
have two full auto Sendra/BFI's i purchased back in '86 right after the ban. Saw them listed in Bushmasters ads in Shotgun News and at the time, a NIB Colt was about $2 grand. i decided to save that whopping $200 per gun and got the Sendra's. Both run great and have been host to many an upper and 9mm conversion units. |
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But... But.... Tony....... It's a Colt!!
Can that be fixed???  This is not a transferable receiver. It's just one I came across and photographed as an example of a beat-to-crap AR receiver ... though I swear that some of the ones I've seen for sale over the years as transferable RRs were just as bad. The story on the one in the photos: I came across it while clearing the estate of a shooting buddy. He had found it on the bottom while diving in the Florida Keys, in an area where drug runners etc. are frequent fliers. (All of us divers find guns on the bottom, right?) The steel parts had rusted, there were barnacles everywhere ... this was what was left of the lower receiver, after it was stripped and cleaned up. It is a Colt, but it is not drilled for the autosear, and thus is not a machine gun. And I don't know where it is now. But it could be made to function again through welding ... and if rewelded, sanded and reanodized, it would look as good as new. Just something to think about when you buy a used / fixed / reanodized receiver. Did the one you're buying ever look like this? YMMV.
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Short answer: An AR's lower receiver is an unstressed component. As long as it is in-spec, I pay more attention to wear-and-tear than to the name on the side of it. When it comes to non-Colt conversion RRs, I would rather buy an as-new cast receiver than a forged one that has been ridden hard and put away wet. Long answer: I would prefer to pay another $2k and get a factory Colt, and avoid all the issues. But I know how tight money is, and sometimes that's not possible. Personally, the next cheaper alternative would be to look for an SP1 conversion and bush the takedown pin holes, because you know the host receiver was both made from the best forging possible and machined by Colt to be in-spec. The only potential issue is the location of the autosear pin hole. But the market values SP1 conversions lower than non-Colt conversions.
Olympic ARs were built on better forgings than Sendras but can be incredibly out-of-spec. Too-tight magwells, top decks that are too high, rear takedown pin holes out of alignment. By the time you are done fixing them, you might have well just started with a virgin block of aluminum, because there's not much left of the original machining. And when you start doing that extensive of a rework on a 30-year-old piece of aluminum, you can have problems –– hidden stress lines developed from use/misuse over time, complicated by the heat generated by the present-time remachining. So I'm not a fan of Olys. So you've got Olys as the most out-of-spec conversion RRs and Sendras as the most in-spec conversions, with everything else in-between. There is no perfect solution ... except to fork out the extra $$$ and pay for a factory Colt MG.
BTW, while aluminum can be welded if done by a pro, the welds are disruptive and create their own stresses. Usually, the weld metal is harder than the surrounding metal, which transfers any stresses to the remaining undamaged area. So while I wouldn't hesitate to fix a broken receiver (or rather, to pay someone else to do it), welding is not appropriate for solely cosmetic reasons ... and if it can be avoided altogether, all the better. Just don't buy this one, a good example of "ridden hard and put away wet": http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/beatreceiver.gif http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/receiverring.gif The picture of the reciever broke in the buffer tube area, I've seen many times on older GI Colts where as the soldier was doing bayonet practice and twisted the gun by the buttstock after stabbing something. |
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The picture of the reciever broke in the buffer tube area, I've seen many times on older GI Colts where as the soldier was doing bayonet practice and twisted the gun by the buttstock after stabbing something. reminds me of basic training back in 93, we were using our M16A1 Triangle rifles, couldn't call them a gun, because it wasn't considered a MG by army standards. Anyway we did our bayonet training with them and we were expected to qualify expert with guns we probably slightly bent barrels with the bayonet training LOL. |
| I have two full-auto conversions that were done by Rock Island Armory in the early 1980's. One was done on a Sendra lower receiver, and is almost as good as a Colt M16 that I also have. The second RIA conversion was done on a SGW (Olympic) receiver. This receiver appears to be machined directly out of aluminum bar stock (not a forging). I have doubts about some of the machining not being mil-spec. Believe or not, back in the day, some people thought that receivers milled from bar stock were actually superior to forgings (at least that's what I was told at the time). |
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