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Page Armory » M-16
Posted: 9/7/2010 1:02:39 PM EDT
I am coming up on 3 months for my transfer and need to place a big order for all new internals. I would like to upgrade the trigger while I place the order, but do not have a clue on M16 triggers.

What do you guys run? What are my options?

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:05:56 PM EDT
If you just want a stock milspec trigger group get Colt parts.
If you want a nice match grade trigger get a Gisselle or Knights.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:44:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 1:45:41 PM EDT by tony_k]
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:42:06 PM EDT
If you plan on shooting in semi and want a nice trigger, get a KAC or Geissele. If you are going to mainly shot in FA, you can't beat a JP. The KAC and Geissele becomes a single stage in FA so you might as well get a single stage JP (which is adjustable) for less than half the price.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:11:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 9:00:47 PM EDT by tony_k]
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:36:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tony_k:

On the rare occasion when I DO switch the selector to semi, it doesn't bother me that it is a crisp, precise single-stage vs. a double-stage, because in my experience a double-stage trigger is never as precise as a single-stage. When I need to shoot semi it is for accuracy, and unless you are running a military drill that requires DS, single-stage will always be more accurate.


Again, YMMV.


Do you do much precision shooting? I shoot a fair amount out to 700 yards, and IME, a 2 stage trigger on a semi is much easier to shoot accurately than a single stage.

I don't have any full auto experience, but my m16 went pending on the 3rd, so that will change soon.

-dan
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:56:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 6:04:32 PM EDT by tony_k]
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:20:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tony_k:

I don't do much precision shooting today, but I did seriously for several decades. At the time, when shooting out to 1,000 yards, I preferred set triggers with pull weights in the 3 to 6-ounce range. I spend my entire life shooting single-stage (including "set") triggers, so that is what I am used to.

For so many reasons I won't bother to list them here, I would not want a 3- to 6-ounce trigger on a full-auto firearm.

I have the JP trigger on my M16 set to 3.4 pounds. At that weight, it works fine for me for both precision semi and for FA use.

AFAIK, all full-auto fire-control groups are single-stage on FA. That includes the Knight's I have used, and AFAIK it includes the Geisselle. The KNS and Geisselle are 2-stage semi, single-stage FA. The JP is single-stage for both.

I find it useful and comforting to have the same design –– single-stage –– on both semi and FA in the same firearm. Maybe some folks don't mind shooting one gun where when the selector is set to semi it is two-stage and when it is set to FA it is single-stage. But that is not me. I prefer having the exact-same trigger design, weight and pull regardless of where the selector is set.

Whatever works for you. Obviously, YMMV.


Perfectly clear now, thanks.


Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:22:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Colt milspec is fine.

I have been running JP Match triggers on my M16 (and my other ARs) for, oh, the last ten years. I love it, and it costs a quarter to a third of what a Gisselle or Knights does. Total trigger movement from untouched to fully depressed is 3/16"; let-off is clean and crisp, like the proverbial glass rod breaking; and in a decade of use (and way more than 10k rounds down the tube), it has not lost adjustment. I put it in, adjust it, and it has run forever.

FWIW. YMMV. HTH.


Is there any fitting required?

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:33:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 7:42:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By slt223:
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Colt milspec is fine.

I have been running JP Match triggers on my M16 (and my other ARs) for, oh, the last ten years. I love it, and it costs a quarter to a third of what a Gisselle or Knights does. Total trigger movement from untouched to fully depressed is 3/16"; let-off is clean and crisp, like the proverbial glass rod breaking; and in a decade of use (and way more than 10k rounds down the tube), it has not lost adjustment. I put it in, adjust it, and it has run forever.

FWIW. YMMV. HTH.


Is there any fitting required?


The JP trigger uses your existing milspec FA hammer, selector and disconnector. All the ones I've did required no filing, but the JP has two set screws which you adjust for pull and overtravel. It comes with a CD-ROM showing how to adjust those to your needs. Once you adjust them, you loktite down the two set screws and you are done.


That's why I like the Gisselle over the JP you don't have to deal with no adjustment screws or locktight. True the Gisselle cost $300 but it's a one time cost I don't see the set ever wearing out. I do shoot my M16s in semi and enjoy the two stage in semi auto. The full auto is crisp single action. I have the Gisselle SSF trigger in 3 of my M16s and it's money well spent IMO.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:40:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 4:18:38 AM EDT
I just watched the JP EZ video. In the video the gunsmith is using a red lube on the trigger parts that he is installing. Whose lube is he using?

Dane

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.8.1_ezt.php
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 8:02:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:13:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By lmlandlord:
I just watched the JP EZ video. In the video the gunsmith is using a red lube on the trigger parts that he is installing. Whose lube is he using?

Dane

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.8.1_ezt.php

JP supplies a tube of lube for initial assembly. After that, I just use whatever lubricant I normally use.

FWIW ... the JP EZ trigger is for semi applications only –– AFAIK, they do not make a FA FCG.

JP's original trigger, which they still sell, works for either semi or FA, though you must supply your own FA disconnector, selector and hammer. In all of the installations I've done, I have used the JP trigger and springs together with new Colt full-auto hammer, disconnector and selector. The Colt factory parts dropped right in and worked with the JP trigger with perfect function and zero fitting. The only "work" was to adjust the two set screws for engagement and overtravel.

These were all Colt factory full-auto receivers. I can't say the same would occur if you used non-Colt internals, or installed it in a conversion RR –– specs might be off enough, or tolerances stacked, that you would need to fit the disconnector or selector.


Thank You Tony!

I am building 4 Spikes Lowers for my kids. Some are SBRed. I am looking for a good trigger system for them. My one son wants one that can get down to 2 lb. I don't know if there is one out there for him.

I am also planning to upgrade my trigger in my Colt M16. JP seems to have a nice trigger system for my M16. I may buy one and give it to my wife to put under the Christmas Tree for me. That is how I get a lot of my accessories for my toys. It is easy to justify it for Christmas using the Family budget instead of mine.

Have a Great Day!

Dane
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