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Posted: 8/28/2010 1:23:22 PM EDT
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Which .22 upper are you using and do you like it?
Thanks. -dan |
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I've also seen the lakeside beltfed, which takes alot of tweaking to get to run right I forgot about this, but another thing is the beltfeed upper has come down a lot in price, it's about $700, it used to be about $2k. Here is their website: http://www.lakesideguns.com/ Also there is a ARFCOM guy that got his working in full auto, he said it was easy to add the trip. I would like to get one just can't at this time. So back to the OP. I built my dedicated upper here is my parts list. Wilson Combat A3 Stripped Upper Receiver YHM Free Float Railed Forend CMMG 22LR bolt Spike's Tactical Dedicated Collar Spike's Tactical 16" 22LR (green mountain) Barrel. Ciener Anti Bounce weight and Trip. It runs flawlessly with CCI Stingers or Aguila Super Max ammo. |
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I forgot about this, but another thing is the beltfeed upper has come down a lot in price, it's about $700, it used to be about $2k. Here is their website: http://www.lakesideguns.com/ Note that the LM7 was slightly different from the current Razorback. I have both. The LM7 was about 1750 when I got it. I was the one that bugged Eric at Lakeside to bring this product to market years ago and he told me to drum up the interest and he would build it. The LM7 has quick change barrels and some of its parts are steel while some of those parts are now aluminum on the RB. The big improvement with the RB was the all metal bolt. I now run a RB bolt in my LM7. I had my LM7 running great years ago and it got finicky again. I attribute this to two things, the extractor design and the original bolt was part metal and part delrin. These issues were difficult to troubleshoot. Now that both of these issues have been corrected with the RB, my LM7 is running awesome now. The RB is a bargain. A belt fed anything for under $700 is great so I bought a RB to have for future use or to salvage parts if Eric ever goes away. Here is a recent thread on subguns regarding the LM7 w/ mention of the RB bolt. http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=736027 |
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I've also seen the lakeside beltfed, which takes alot of tweaking to get to run right I forgot about this, but another thing is the beltfeed upper has come down a lot in price, it's about $700, it used to be about $2k. Here is their website: http://www.lakesideguns.com/ Also there is a ARFCOM guy that got his working in full auto, he said it was easy to add the trip. I would like to get one just can't at this time. Yeah, the razor back was another design, kind of stripped down version of the LM7. Does he offer it in full auto? I was told it would not be offered in full auto. And it doesn't have the quick change barrels. Which really doesn't matter to me, I wouldn't be running enough rounds threw it to need that. I could let it just cool down between belts. amp-does he offer it in both f/a and semi? Or do you only run your LM7 in f/a? I may have been told wrong, you know how gun shops are. |
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amp-does he offer it in both f/a and semi? Or do you only run your LM7 in f/a? I may have been told wrong, you know how gun shops are. The only difference is the semi doesn't have the FA trip and the back of the bolt needs to have a hold drilled to hold the drip. You can easily make a trip and drill a hole to hold the trip. I don't know the current status of whether or not he will do the RB's for FA. Below is a pic of the new RB bolt on top and one of my old LM7 bolts on the bottom. You can see trip on the rear of the LM7 bolt. This is before I mod'd the RB bolt. 
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Below is a pic of the new RB bolt on top and one of my old LM7 bolts on the bottom. You can see trip on the rear of the LM7 bolt. This is before I mod'd the RB bolt. http://www.c3junkie.com/lm7/newbolt/side.jpg Okay before I save this picture for future reference, the orientation of the picture is the bottom side of the bolts are actually the top part of the pictures? |
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Okay before I save this picture for future reference, the orientation of the picture is the bottom side of the bolts are actually the top part of the pictures? Correct. Note that the RB bolt now uses a hardened pin that is easily replaced that the hammer rides to prevent wear on the bolt. |
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amp-does he offer it in both f/a and semi? Or do you only run your LM7 in f/a? I may have been told wrong, you know how gun shops are. The only difference is the semi doesn't have the FA trip and the back of the bolt needs to have a hold drilled to hold the drip. You can easily make a trip and drill a hole to hold the trip. I don't know the current status of whether or not he will do the RB's for FA. Below is a pic of the new RB bolt on top and one of my old LM7 bolts on the bottom. You can see trip on the rear of the LM7 bolt. This is before I mod'd the RB bolt. http://www.c3junkie.com/lm7/newbolt/side.jpg Gottca. Well, guess I was right in that he wouldn't offer it in f/a, but its good to know it can be modded after the fact. I mean, $700 is a heck of alot easier to take then $1500. I might have to look into one of these. 
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Went to the Hernando MG shoot on Saturday and took my LM7 and several belts. One was their 'Brick belt' - 500 round belt!
One of my co-workers was filming while I fed the LM7 and his 14 year old son was filming. He was trying to film it with his still camera in his right hand and my camcorder in his left hand. All the fumbling around and he missed the first initial bursts but got most of it. I told his son to use his peripheral vision to see if I was untangling the belt while he shot. It was 500 rounds w/ ZERO malfunctions. Using cheap CCI Blazer ammo. Lakeside makes 200 round feed boxes that mount to a carrier that goes in the magwell and do not require someone to hold the belt. A 500 round belt is almost 20 feet long! I have not made a feed box for the 500 rounder and to be honest I don't think I will. 500 rounds is a lot to carry around even for a 22LR. I mainly did it to prove the LM7's reliability and to pronounce it the new king of 22LR firepower. For years I considered the American 180 to be the ultimate in 22LR firepower and I now think it has been trumped!! Here's a link to the vid: 500 round belt, full auto, LM7 
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Went to the Hernando MG shoot on Saturday and took my LM7 and several belts. One was their 'Brick belt' - 500 round belt! One of my co-workers was filming while I fed the LM7 and his 14 year old son was filming. He was trying to film it with his still camera in his right hand and my camcorder in his left hand. All the fumbling around and he missed the first initial bursts but got most of it. I told his son to use his peripheral vision to see if I was untangling the belt while he shot. It was 500 rounds w/ ZERO malfunctions. Using cheap CCI Blazer ammo. Lakeside makes 200 round feed boxes that mount to a carrier that goes in the magwell and do not require someone to hold the belt. A 500 round belt is almost 20 feet long! I have not made a feed box for the 500 rounder and to be honest I don't think I will. 500 rounds is a lot to carry around even for a 22LR. I mainly did it to prove the LM7's reliability and to pronounce it the new king of 22LR firepower. For years I considered the American 180 to be the ultimate in 22LR firepower and I now think it has been trumped!! Here's a link to the vid: 500 round belt, full auto, LM7 http://cdn.livevideo.com/image/78/208678/1394009s.jpg Amphibian you're one of the few to get a LM7 to run that well though. I tinker a lot and could not a 200rd belt to run properly on auto most of the time. |
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Amphibian you're one of the few to get a LM7 to run that well though. I tinker a lot and could not a 200rd belt to run properly on auto most of the time. I doubt you have tried to run your LM7 with the new Razorback bolt. If you still have your LM7, you NEED to get the new RAZORBACK bolt. It makes a world of difference. I didn't have to do any tweaking with the new Razorback bolt. Only timed it for dropping the hammer but NO tweaking. Give Eric a call ASAP. I've heard that he is running low on the RB bolts since others are having so much success with them. He needs to make another batch soon. |
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See this thread: http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=736715
Is this with the new RB bolt? What ammo are you using? |
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Quoted: Went to the Hernando MG shoot on Saturday and took my LM7 and several belts. One was their 'Brick belt' - 500 round belt! One of my co-workers was filming while I fed the LM7 and his 14 year old son was filming. He was trying to film it with his still camera in his right hand and my camcorder in his left hand. All the fumbling around and he missed the first initial bursts but got most of it. I told his son to use his peripheral vision to see if I was untangling the belt while he shot. It was 500 rounds w/ ZERO malfunctions. Using cheap CCI Blazer ammo. Lakeside makes 200 round feed boxes that mount to a carrier that goes in the magwell and do not require someone to hold the belt. A 500 round belt is almost 20 feet long! I have not made a feed box for the 500 rounder and to be honest I don't think I will. 500 rounds is a lot to carry around even for a 22LR. I mainly did it to prove the LM7's reliability and to pronounce it the new king of 22LR firepower. For years I considered the American 180 to be the ultimate in 22LR firepower and I now think it has been trumped!! Here's a link to the vid:  Nice! |
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OK, I guess I'm now a believer. I'm one of the LM7 owners that couldn't get their unit to run worth a damn and finally gave up in disgust. After reading several posts about the new Razorback bolt, I broke down and ordered one. When it arrived, I decided to really test it by doing what was recommended by Lakeside- don't mess with it. Don't tune it, don't dress it up, don't time it, don't do anything. This is hard for me, as I love to tinker with things, but I gritted my teeth, threw some oil on it and stuck it in the receiver.
I just got back from the range after running four 100-round belts through it with a total of three stoppages. This LM7 has NEVER run so good and while I was shooting CCI Mini-Mags it performed flawlessly. It was only after I switched to a couple of belts of CCI Blaser that I had kicking around that the stoppages occurred. You could hear the difference in the quality of the ammo as soon as the change happened- the cyclic rate slowed down and got erratic. With the Mini-Mags, the gun ran like a sewing machine. With the Blasers (older stock from when the LM7 first came out and I bought a case just as the quality went in the crapper) it ran, but sluggishly and three times it didn't chamber a round. The first belt was Mini-Mags and I shot it in short bursts- zero problems. The seond belt was also Mini-Mags and I fired three rounds in semi to confirm it was still working, then held the trigger down and blew through the rest of the belt in one long burst. Belt three was a mix of Mini-mags and Blasers. The Mini-Mags ran beautifully, then I got to the Blazers and the gun immediately started slowing down. I had two stoppages. Belt four was pure Blazers and ran poorly, but only stopped once. Amazing. I'm not happy that I had to go through hell trying to get the LM7 to run and pay another $200 to fix the problem, but I am happy that it now runs. If you have an LM7 and it doesn't run, get one of these bolts. |
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Glad to hear another LM7 getting their to run!! Note that I also have 3 cases of the crappy Blazer that I bought when I got my LM7 when it first came out.
This is the stuff documented on Lakeside's site having actually being made by Federal but packaged as CCI Blazer. If you get the 'real' CCI Blazers actually made by CCI w/ the darker lead bullets, they run awesome. The 500 round belt video that I posted w/ zero malfunctions was with the proper CCI Blazers. |
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Amazing. I'm not happy that I had to go through hell trying to get the LM7 to run and pay another $200 to fix the problem, but I am happy that it now runs. That's how I feel as well... Quoted:
Note that I also have 3 cases of the crappy Blazer that I bought when I got my LM7 when it first came out. This is the stuff documented on Lakeside's site having actually being made by Federal but packaged as CCI Blazer. If you get the 'real' CCI Blazers actually made by CCI w/ the darker lead bullets, they run awesome. The 500 round belt video that I posted w/ zero malfunctions was with the proper CCI Blazers. I also have 2 cases of the crappy Blazer which I also bought when I got my LM7 in early 2006 |
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Well I'm still waiting to receive the new Razorback bolt to try it out but on another note because of this thread I pulled out my Ceiner kit and shoved it my LWRC shorty upper today. No lie I ran 6 -27rd BlackDog mags back to back with no failures on full auto(Ammo was CCI 40gr MiniMags). I forgot how fun it was to shoot full auto 22lr until today.
For all those people that gave up on their 22lr kits it sure is a lot of fun and well worth it to get them working right!! |
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An anecdote after running 3 550rd cartons through my dedicated .22 upper this past weekend, with all different kinds of shooters, using CMMG 26rd plastic body mags:
Be firm - holding a .22 conversion gun loosely lets it slap around some, leading to stovepipes or failures to fire from an otherwise really reliable dedicated upper setup. If the gun's moving back and forth in recoil, even a little bit, you're stealing spring energy it needs to cycle, and most .22 kits have a very narrow operating envelope to start with. This is why experienced/frequent shooters never seem to have as many problems as inexperienced shooters. Once I started telling folks to keep it firm to the shoulder and lean into it when firing burst or auto, I had fewer stovepipes to clear, and they had more fun on the trigger. |
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Not to resurrect a possible dead thread, but it seems every 2-3 months I am researching .22 upper as a potential next purchase and I came across this thread.
The only thing that prevents me from "pulling the trigger"  so to say, is the bad taste from the LM7 with the frustration and money lost dumping the item.
I was a previous LM7 owner who sold one for a loss because the damn thing wouldn't run. In regards to only needing a bolt to resolve the issues leaves me a bit skeptical because there were a few non bolt related things that needed to be bent, tweaked or filed. It would be great to have a sticky for this section to summarize the available .22 conversion kits and their reliability so when I revisit this section every 2-3 months I just have to look in one area.
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I have a Kuehl M4 profile upper and it runs like a clock in full auto.
I'm using the heavy and expensive Ceiner/Atchisson magazines. They're reliable, but I hate the shape and weight. I want to switch to different mags. Are the CMMG and/or Black Dog mags relible? |
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I want to switch to different mags. Are the CMMG and/or Black Dog mags relible? Try a BDM 27 rounder and see if it works well with your upper if so get the 50 rnd drums they make I have 3 of them with close to 2000 rnds through the first one I got. There can be a minor issue loading the drums I have to use a screw drive to apply slight pressure on the top rounds as I turn the spindle. This is done because the teeth don't always catch the rounds when it is turned. Basically a small issue to load them but none unloading them except how fast you burn through the ammo. Also BDM has a great customer service had a missing dummy round for a drum and they sent me a replacement string of them. |
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Gottca. Well, guess I was right in that he wouldn't offer it in f/a, but its good to know it can be modded after the fact. I mean, $700 is a heck of alot easier to take then $1500. I might have to look into one of these. That is the semi-auto Razor for $700 and from what I was told you can't get a full auto razor. You have to purchase a used LM7 from someone (since they are no longer made) and the LM7 uppers are still running $1500 or so and then you still have to buy the new bolt. For $700 I would have been tempted to try again, but based on the above I am not willing to risk it again. |
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That is the semi-auto Razor for $700 and from what I was told you can't get a full auto razor. You have to purchase a used LM7 from someone (since they are no longer made) and the LM7 uppers are still running $1500 or so and then you still have to buy the new bolt. For $700 I would have been tempted to try again, but based on the above I am not willing to risk it again. From what I have read, you have to make a full auto trip for the Razor and it will work. No one sells the trip or sear or whatever, but you can make them auto if you make it yourself. -dan |
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In regards to only needing a bolt to resolve the issues leaves me a bit skeptical because there were a few non bolt related things that needed to be bent, tweaked or filed. The only other issue I'm aware of was the extractor. Which was also addressed. Eric now makes the extractor from a casting and they are all perfect now. Also, regarding full auto, if you don't want to make the trip for a Razorback yourself, Eric will do an FA Razorback but ONLY if you send him your lower so he knows it will run. He does charge a fee for that though. He doesn't want to get slammed over something not working like he did with the LM7. |
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