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Posted: 7/20/2010 6:08:46 AM EDT
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Left it at home but will post more details Updated the post with more/all information before My Form 4.
Basically they "blacked out" almost everything except the dates and serial number. Basic info below, not 100% on it, but it's what i can remember reading last night, was out of town and came back and packet was in the mail. Didn't have much time to look it over very well. MG is a PAWS, Olympic Arms P03XXA serial number range, My history total of 8 pages Page 8 Form 2 dated 4-18-86 . Also on the F2 it's marked Re-Manufactured basically OA receiver being converted by PAWS, almost all info is blacked out except model, type, SN, and dates Page 7 Form 3 approved date Feb 10 1987 Page 6 Back of a Form 4 that is page 5, date of INDV and CLEO signature is 3-12-87, has a Recieved stamp of MAR 25 1987 on it. Page 5 Front of a Form 4 that is page 6, date of SOT signature 3/9/87, Type of firearm is Machinegun Receiver, Date approved May 1 1987 by sp? Stephen E. Niggins Page 4 Front of a Form 4 only, Type of firearm says Machinegun, Overall 7.87", first time a length of any kind listed. Date of SOT signature is March 25, 2008, Date approved May 12 2008 by Dawn Henson Page 3 Form 3 From Length of Barrel 10.5" Overall 29" Date of SOT signature is July 9, 2008, Date approved July 17 2008 by Dawn Henson Page 2 and 1 are my Form 4, I find it interesting that for mine it has Length of Barrel 20" Overall 39" and came that way, of course I have since upgraded it to M4 style. BTW the gun parts were all old looking in the gun. I put in Colt FCG but haven't changed out the other stuff. There were no little marks or anything on the receiver, I've had it for 2 years now and I have a few little marks on it from normal wear, I wonder if the previous owner actually used it much or if the dealer or previous owner I bought the gun from put it together to sell it as a package instead of a receiver? |
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Cool! Well, you know it definitely is transferable, and was made in the last months before the cutoff. You know that you are the second owner, not counting the dealers who did the transfers, and that the first owner kept it for more than 20 years.
That info sounds worth the 44 cents it cost, to me. 
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Didn't cost me a penny. I faxed in the request :-) First fax I believe went no-where because the number on how to do the FOIA request was very old, so I looked up the newer info, I'll post it in this message. I received the first letter about 1 week after the fax telling me they have received my request etc... and I would get the information within 20 working days. So it was almost 1 month from the time I faxed it before I got the packet.
You are correct it does look like I am the 2nd actual owner of the MG. What I did notice is the OAL from one form to the next has changed, in almost every transfer. Again going off my memory from reading it last night after driving 10 hours to get home from a long vacation weekend. I will have to look at it in more detail tonight and I'll edit my OP with the actual dates I find and more details. Here is what I sent, edited my info out Stuff in Bold. _______________________________________________ NAME 123 Maple AVE Anytown, NM zip code (800) 555-1234 cell, (888) 555-1234 work 06/15/2010 VIA FACSIMILE – (202) 648-9619 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Disclosure Division Averill P. Graham (Division Chief) 99 New York Avenue, NE, Room 1E-400 Washington, DC 20226 USA Subject: Information Request Pursuant to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Dear Sir or Madam: I, Full Name, social security number SSN, residing at 123 Maple AVE, Anytown, STATE zip code, hereby request, pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, that you provide me with all information and copies of all documents related to the firearm(s) specified below, that is, on information and belief, a machinegun (as defined by 26 U.S.C. § 5845(B)) registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record: - Machine Gun, Model: ZX16A1, Serial Number: P03xxA, Manufacture: Olympic Arms I am seeking a copy of all information currently in the possession of your agency with regards to the above described gun, including the weapon history report. I also understand that certain personal information on records relating to the National Firearms Registration and Registration Record are exempt from disclosure under FOIA. To the extent possible, please provide me with copies of such records redacted to remove the exempt information. I hereby agree to pay all search and duplication fees in the amount of up to $100. If you estimate fees will exceed this amount please contact me. I am making this request as an individual, seeking information for personal use and not for a commercial use, which I believe makes me an "all other requestor" for purposes of calculation of such fees. In support of the preceding sentence, I submit that I currently have no intention of selling the firearm(s) described above and therefore any information obtained by virtue of this request letter would not contribute any significant pecuniary gain to me. I declare under penalty of perjury (pursuant to 28 USC 1746) that I am Full Name and to the best of my knowledge that I am the current lawful owner of the machinegun(s) described above, the information set forth in this letter is true and correct, and that I understand the penalties provided in 5 U.S.C. 552a(i)(3) for requesting access to records under false pretenses. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to accommodate your processing of my information request. Respectfully, /Signed/ |
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It would be great if an FOIA request told us the date, name, and address of everyone who ever owned our MG. But ATF considers it tax info and thus confidential. I have no problem with that.
Still, it does give you a timetable, and a total number of owners, and info about how it was configured at the moment of manufacture. This is fun to know for a recent manufacture item, and historically illuminating for a C&R firearm. And it's free. Wish we could get more detailed info, but again ... it's free.
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Great post - thanks! Yeah, it would be nice to have a complete history of a gun. I have a LaFrance trigger pack MP5 reworked by Joe Gaddini/SWR that was brokered through Dan Shea (Long Mountain Outfitters) who got it as part of a package of them from Ellis Props & Graphics in Hollywood (now defunct) - - it started out as a movie prop gun. It would be great to have a formal written history of all this. I'm going to submit the FOIA fax to BATF&E today to see what comes back. |
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Great post - thanks! Yeah, it would be nice to have a complete history of a gun. I have a LaFrance trigger pack MP5 reworked by Joe Gaddini/SWR that was brokered through Dan Shea (Long Mountain Outfitters) who got it as part of a package of them from Ellis Props & Graphics in Hollywood (now defunct) - - it started out as a movie prop gun. It would be great to have a formal written history of all this. I'm going to submit the FOIA fax to BATF&E today to see what comes back. There are two different types of letters depending if you own the MG as a trust/corp or INDV. Here are some links Here is the website I orginally got the text for the FOIA request, the ATF contact info is old and out of date, but I got the current contact info from the ATF site. Sample letter FOIA request on MachineGunBoards.com ATF FOIA information |
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Well finally got the time to scan in the 10 pages I received back, and wanted to point out one other note.
The FOIA request copy of my Form 4 has the Approved checked and same date, but it's the other copy that was sent in, I can tell from slight differences in my signature, that is in their records, and it also does not have a Tax Stamp on it like the one I have. |
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So, it took about a month to get back ? Yep, unlike our transfers, a FOIA request must be answered within 20 working days by law. Also, FWIW, FOIA requests go to Washington. D.C., where there is only a skeleton NFA staff remaining ... all the working folks are now in W.Va. About all the remaining D.C. folks do is interface with Congress ... and fulfill FOIA requests. |
| So I have a question. I have read thru all of the pages of what to do if you cant find paperwork for a NFA firearm and I still cant find the answer. I have a customer of mine that has an M16 and we are trying to figure out weather it is transferable. is there a way to have them check in the registry and say yes or no? I understand it is tax info and is all i want to know is if it is in the registry as transferable or not? Thanks for your help! |
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So I have a question. I have read thru all of the pages of what to do if you cant find paperwork for a NFA firearm and I still cant find the answer. I have a customer of mine that has an M16 and we are trying to figure out weather it is transferable. is there a way to have them check in the registry and say yes or no? I understand it is tax info and is all i want to know is if it is in the registry as transferable or not? Thanks for your help! ATF will only discuss that with the registered owner of the NFA item. So if it's registered to your customer, he must call ATF/W.Va. and ask them. |
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So I have a question. I have read thru all of the pages of what to do if you cant find paperwork for a NFA firearm and I still cant find the answer. I have a customer of mine that has an M16 and we are trying to figure out weather it is transferable. is there a way to have them check in the registry and say yes or no? I understand it is tax info and is all i want to know is if it is in the registry as transferable or not? Thanks for your help! ATF will only discuss that with the registered owner of the NFA item. So if it's registered to your customer, he must call ATF/W.Va. and ask them. The only exception to that rule is they will talk to the person to whom the firearm is being transferred. If your name is on the Form 4, they can talk to you about the firearm. So, if you were to call NFA Branch and tell them that you are the transferee and are wanting to check the status of the transfer, they will ask the serial number. Once they look up that, they will ask yor name. Once they've verified you're on the pending Form 4, they'll tell you what you wish to know. Now, if you give them a serial number and it's not on the registry, they'll say something like "Sorry, sir, but I'm unable to find a firearm with that serial number. Are you sure you've got the right number?" That'd tell you it's not likely on the registry. Or, they might say something like "Sir, I'm not showing a pending transfer for that weapon at this time." That tells you it's registered, but to whom? Hypothetically speaking, of course. |
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