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Posted: 11/6/2006 7:05:47 PM EDT
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The rifle in question has a lower marked "Colt M16" with "Property of US Government" between the rampant pony/M16 marking and the 5.56mm/serial number markings. It has a two position collapsible stock; the aluminum type with vinyl coating, and proper square stake marks on the castle nut/receiver endplate though there are no drops of black paint over the staking. The upper has a 10.5 inch barrel with an early A1 birdcage and correct split ring washer. It has correct proof marks. The barrel has no proof marks but looks like a factory barrel, and not a cut down. The front sight base/gas block has no bayonet lug and here is the stange part, it has a hex screw in the front just above the barrel. The set screw is at the same height as the gas tube. Any idea what this could be? It does not look to have anything to do with adjusting gas flow....it is in the front of the gas block and the gas tube rollpin holds the gastube in place as on any other upper. The bolt carrier is the early style with stake marks in the center of the carrier key. The pistol grip is cut down like the Colt survival rifle. All of this looks like it could be factory. If it was done at a later date (and I'm not sure why it would be done), it was done very professionally. I will get some pics in a few days. Anyone have any ideas? |
Pictures are a "MUST" on this one Very interesting |
I am also not aware of any Commandos with a factory "survival" style pistol grip. |
You didn't miss anything. The cut down pistol grip was removed and put in the parts bin and a standard A2 added for those pics. The A2 is not staying on the gun. I'll see about getting some pics of the pistol grip, though I'm more interested in the barrel and front sight base configuration. The cut down grip is a bit lopsided at the bottom, but I am not writing it off as coming out of Colt as of yet. We're submitting FOIA requests for the original form-2 from Colt. This will at least give some insight into the configuration (OAL and bbl length). |
| I'd be very surprised if this gun turns out to be original, then again, maybe not. The barrel does not have the bell shaped shoulder just behind the flash hider washer as factory Colt barrels do. Colt did not install hex screws as pictured though I remember seeing FSB's like this before. Not entirely sure of the purpose, possibly to aid in the removal of a stuck gas tube. The pin could be removed and a punch could be used to drive the gas tube out. Also, the stock looks original but the tube seems to be a plum color which would not be correct. Do you have any pics of the stock tube? What is odd to me is the serial number range for the markings, UNLESS, this is a five million range serial number. The gun is marked Colt's Firearms Division which indicates it is a later production gun than it would be if it had been made by Colt's Patent Firearms Mfg Co. Pictures do not always tell the whole story but they do provide some insight. |
It is a 5 million range serial number; I Photoshopped out the last three digits. I am really curious about the hex screw in the gas block. Stock is correct, as is the receiver extension. It is a two position Colt tube in early Colt gray. I think the plum color you're referring to is artifact from the flash and the green background on the gray extension. In person it is gray without a doubt. |
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That is a mid 1970's commercial/export Colt that has had US PROP markings added to it. Not able to ID the barrel, a close up of the FSB from the right side, and pics of the profile under the guards would be helpful. Need more pics of the bolt group, but from what I can see it appears to be aftermarket. |
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The staking on the bolt carrier should be two stakes for a 1970s, not a single stake on each screw. The single stakes are usually round or square, an abstract shape as these would indicate aftermarket. Also, the holes on the lock nut that the wrench fits into look egged out both ways which would indicate installation and removal. The pistol grip is aftermarket. What is the color of the buffer plug? |
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I had an early XM in the late 70's and it had the hex screw to facilitate removal of the early carbine gas tubes. The curve of the gas tube going into the receiver was abrupt instead of shallow and it was almost impossible to pull the tube to the rear far enough to clear the FSB before you ran into resistance from the bend in the gas tube. It was much simpler to remove the hex screw and slip the straight portion of the gas tube to the front until the rear of the tube cleared the receiver. Made re-installation easier as well. I do not think the barrel is original, though. |
That is what I was thinking.
Seen pictures of those, and they look a bit different then this one.
Agreed, sure don't look like it. |
Hmmm. How do you think the US Property markings were added? I can tell you without a doubt that when holding it in person they look to be roll marks, not engraving. There is also no difference in the finish in or surrounding the property markings. And this does not look like it has been refinished.
I'll see about getting some more pics.
What other details are you interested in? The bolt is marked MPC and the carrier has the C stamp. Let me know what you're looking for and I'll see about getting some pics.
I just pulled the bolt carrier on my 614 and it indeed has a single square midline stake per carrier key screw, not the round stakes seen on this carrier.
That is what I was thinking on the holes in the lock nut. The pistol grip is definitely aftermarket - my boss put the A2 on the gun to take pictures because he didn't like the look of the chopped grip.
I don't know; will see if I can get some pics. Great discussion guys, thanks for your help. |
The appropriate markings for a US Air Force Colt Model 604 from that vintage is: Colt Logo PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVT. M-16 CAL. 5.56 M.M. XXXXXXX The one pictures was a commercial/export marked one. These have a big space between the Colt logo and the caliber markings. They are also stamped M16 to the right of the logo. USGI rifles do not have a M16 marking to the right of the logo. The M16/XM16E1/M16A1/M16A2/M16A3/M16A4/M4/M4A1 nomenclature roll mark goes in between OF U.S. GOVT. and CAL. 5.56 on USGI weapons.
The correct bolt would be marked MPC in large font with the M and P run together. Would also have a white extractor buffer. There would also be diagonal cuts behind the locking lugs.
Colt used single strike per carrier key screw into early 1968. After that was the two per carrier key screw we are all familiar with. The one pictured is neither, and not something done at the factory. |
 this pic is from sale item on sturm board. |
When you get some time, try rubbing the lower with acetone or MEK and see if any finish comes off. If it is anodized, no finish will come off. |
This picture is making me question the finish on the lower. Notice the orange peel texture looking finish. |
Scott, I am certain that the lower is anodized, and it looks to be original anodizing as well. It is not molycoated or otherwise painted (I have an M16 that was previously molycoated before being anodized by US Anodizing). I can tell you that the finish on the lower looks completely factory. We have several factory M16A2 lowers in the shop with similar texture on the lowers. Subjectively the finish on this lower is almost identical in color and texture to my 614. |
Maybe its just the lighting then. |
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