I'm seriously considering getting a machine gun later this year. I keep putting it off year after year and prices will probably continue to rise year after year.
I figured I could get a Mac11 for $5000 and then a Lage upper to satisfy my full auto... but prices have gone close to $8000 for a 9mm Mac11 without factoring in a Lage upper price! Roughly $4000 more gets me an Uzi or a MP40. Another $6000 or so gets me a 1919 for a belt fed.
Then there's the save up another year for a HK sear.
As much fun as a belt fed would be, I feel I wouldn't use it as often due to transport, setting up, and the cost of feeding the beast... but it does seem so enjoyable! I'd love to own a MG42, but it's out of my price range.
I also hear nothing but rave reviews of the MP5 from owners but the price of entry is much higher than the other 9mm alternatives. This has me leaning towards a cheaper subgun. I really enjoy WW2 era firearms/history so I'm considering the MP40, but I'm kinda terrified about maintaining it and how difficult repairs might be and how long it'd hold up. A Thompson would also be nice, but they seem to run almost $10000 more than the MP40 for some reason.

I know I'm rambling, but I'm just having the hardest time as it'll be the only MG I'll be buying for the foreseeable future.

Cheap, WWII, super simple to work on, tons of spare parts, 9mm, small and lightweight. Cost of entry is approximately $6,500 - $7,000.

ETA: There's supposed to be a picture of a Sten above that sentence...which may or may not be showing up.

They're like girls. And Cars. 

Each has its unique personality and pleasing quirks that they bring to the table. 
The Thompson is heavy, but has a smooth, slow rhythmic cadence to it.
The Uzi is a bit big, but fun and generally pleasing.
The M11 is a hyperactive little tart.
The MP5 is flexible, but demands investment.
The M16 is an adult Lego kit with an almost neverending list of options to buy.
The P90 is pretty, but makes you fight for everything it gives you.
The tube guns are down home next door neighbors that know how to party.

Its really hard to go completely wrong, but its all to easy to not get the right thing.

The M11 approaches the M16 in its modularity and availability of of aftermarket accessories. Don't let its cheapness fool you either. With good mags, It's a very robust, reliable gun too.

An M16 has endless options and you are already familiar with the platform.  Entry cost is steep tho.

You can't go wrong with the 1919 belt fed. They're at a "sweet spot" in price right now. Lots of potential for appreciation.

Don't fool around. Get a serious machine gun.

Dreaming about which MG to buy Is almost as fun as shooting one! But sadly the longer you wait the higher the price will be, I dont foresee them going down in value anytime soon.

You need to figure the answer to a few questions before you buy...
How much money do you have saved up now?
What is your absolute most youre willing to spend?
What would you do with the MG?
Will it get shot a lot or be a safe queen?

If you just like collecting rare firearms then a WWII era gun, like a sten, thompson, MP40, MG34/42 etc...is a good choice.
If you like modern tactical firearms, they you probably want a M16, HK, AK, etc...
If you want to compete in subgun matches a MP5, Uzi or MAC makes the most sense.
If you want to turn heads and draw a crowd at the range a large belt fed like a M1919 or water cooled beltfed would be best.

If I have to recommend one MG it would be an M16.
Its one of the most modern transferable MGs out there.
Its nearly identical to the AR15 so even novice gun owners can shoot and maintain it.
Its still in use by militaries all over the world.
Its extremely reliable.
It has an endless selection of repair parts, modifications, upgrades, it can be a subgun, beltfed and can shoot a variety of different calibers.
Its a perfect starter MG and great for people who can only afford one gun.

When you decide be sure to let us know and post lots of pictures

There is a reason transferrable M16's are so expensive.  I almost bought one when prices dipped several years ago.  I made the financially prudent decision of buying a house instead.  I would love to have that MG but I can't personally justify the expense.

I do have fun with my BumpSAW's though

I'd recommend an M16.


Modular.  Spare parts. Caliber changes.


I even went for the XMG99 belt fed option, but the FBATF changed their opinion.  Now I have an M16 and a semi MG34.

Unless you can shoot in your back yard don't go with a beltfed.  I only take mine out once every year or two because of the amount of other things I take with the 1919. 
Lets see if I can compile a partial list.

Gun
Tripod
two or three 5 gallon buckets full of belts or links of ammo.
link catcher (large plastic bucket under gun)
Tool bag full of tools for removing barrel
spare barrel
oil
something to shoot, steel
probably several more items I can't recall.

See, lots of heavy items.  Go get a M11 and one or several lage uppers.  You'll have loads of fun.

No matter how long that you think about it, you're not going to "figure it out."

There's nothing to figure out.  Every MG on the market is priced right about on par with how desirable it is.  

A Reising is around 6k and an UZI is around 13k.   And sure enough, you probably want an UZI right about 2x as much as you want a Reising.  

Eventually you just end up picking one and buying it.


Since you're buying only one MG for now, you should pick one with lots of spare parts and cheap magazines.  And fires cheap ammo.  And is comfortable and fun to shoot.

Based on what you've said, I think you should get an UZI.  There is a small mountain of spare parts available.  The IMI mags are a masterpiece and only $10.  It shoots 9mm.  It's very accurate and comfortable.  It suppresses well.

You can get a nice wooden stock that is comfortable.  Even though it's one of the sheet metal wonders, it doesn't have that crappy sheet metal cheapness about it, it feels and operates like a quality gun.

You can mount a red dot optic on it without messing up the ergonomics.  It is an iconic military gun with an excellent reputation and giant fan base of fanatical collectors.  You can get 45acp and 22 kits for it.

It's a heavy duty military gun and is practically indestructible.  It's reliable and does not jam.

And it's bad ass looking.  Any time you tell someone that you own an UZI, they will be very impressed.  

The UZI is the king of the low end of the MG spectrum, there is basically nothing bad to say about, no shortcomings.


On the high end, I would suggest either a genuine pre-1945 Thompson or a Colt M16.

The Thompson is a super deluxe masterpiece of a gun, there isn't a speck of sheet metal on the entire thing.  Except for the buttplate. And has an absolutely fanatical following among collectors.  And it is a true pisser to shoot.

The M16 is the erector set of the MG world.  Nobody needs to explain that one.

Darnnit OP .... Now you have me wondering about an FA American 180 or a 10/22 trigger pack.

There was a ruger ac556 for like 9.5 k recently on subguns.
its temtping for me.

I wish my M11 would turn into an UZI :-(

But not for the 5-6K difference.

When I bought my M11 the price difference was only 3K. Although, percentage wise they are still about the same 70% price difference.

And the sexy foreign FNC...nice curves, does everything the M16 does...but she also does 3 rnd bursts!

Back in April of last year I bought a Stemple STEN MK II for $6,800.00 the form 3 to my dealer came back in August, still waiting on the form 4. In October I bought a M-11 STEN conversion for 7,400.00, still waiting of the form 3 to do the form 4. When I started looking back in 2012 STEN MK IIs were going for about $4,000.00, I don't know what the M-11s were going for back then, but the prices only go up.

OP I was in your boat a couple of years ago. I was an Uzi fanatic. Had three semi autos, a 9mm and 45 full size, and a 9mm mini. SBRed one full size and the mini. Got .22 and .45 conversion kits for both the full size and mini. Suppressors for all calibers on these guns. By the time I added up all the amount of money spent on these guns and kits, I could have had a full size SMG. By that time the prices were out of my range. Then I did what most do in my case, I bought the gateway machinegun, the M11/nine. Got into the Lage goodies and the gun was a dream to shoot.  It's no uzi but it fills the subgun itch.

Well, after that I did what Tony said to do. I went to a MG shoot and fell in love with the M16! So much that I sold off a bunch of semi auto guns, saved and scraped the coin up for a conversion M16 that I picked up yesterday. I know that you said that you would only buy one but I said that too.

Good Luck

Thanks for all the advice fellas! I'm going to just keep saving and ignoring all the gun deals until I have at least $20,000 saved up later this year. Thought about getting a Corvette... but I love guns more and at least this way I can think of it as an investment lmao. Or spin it that way to my family
I'm pretty sure Oklahoma has a huge full auto shoot in the summer so I'm going to plan on visiting that and renting a couple guns.
I'm going to keep the M16 DIAS and the HK Sear in mind when I go, but I'm such a WW2 fan that I'm leaning towards a WW2 era auto.
My main fear is maintaining those old guns, but it seems like there are gunsmiths out there dedicated to keeping them running and even repairing them.

The MG42 is legendary but it's still $40,000+ which would be my "fun money" for the next 2-3 years! The M1919A4 seems to be going for under half that amount so that's under serious consideration. I really like both the MP40 and the Thompson. MP40 seems to be going for $13000-$15000 these days while the M1A1 is somehow about $22000-$25000. Not too sure I understand the Thompson pricing... seems like there'd be a whole lot more of them in the US compared to the German MP40.  I hear the earlier Pre-WW2 Thompsons are of much higher build quality, but the WW2 M1A1 seems to actually cost more!

~$40,000 can get me:
A) MG42
B) M16 + Mac 10/11
C) HK Sear + Hosts
D) M1919A4 + MP40 or maaaaybe a Thompson
E) MP40 + Thompson

Don't own any big farm land out in the country so I'd probably be shooting the sub guns far more often than any belt fed... but then I'd be missing out on a belt fed!

Start with something small that is a *relatively* nominal investment, i.e. the M11. I know the MP5 and Uzi are hot shit according to many, but honestly at two and five times the price, respectively, I don't think it's worth it for a RR Uzi or sear. They have benefits but at those price points (especially the latter) I don't think it's worth it. And frankly you might not even enjoy F/A enough to justify the investment (shocking I know, but you wouldn't be the first.)

Another point to consider. Subsonic 9mm costs about the same as .45 ball so if your thinking suppressed sub-gun like a MAC, the MAC 10 is a good choice too.

Don't own any big farm land out in the country so I'd probably be shooting the sub guns far more often than any belt fed... but then I'd be missing out on a belt fed!

Also, dont forget to factor in other expenses beyond just the firearm, such as:

Sales Tax - If youre buying in state from a dealer. 7% on $20,000 is $1,400 of taxes. This is why I bought online and out of state. Took longer because of the second tax stamp but saved me quite a bit on the purchase price.

NFA Tax Stamps - Can be as high as $400 if its a out of state purchase

Optics - High end red dots, surefire Lights and lasers can add up to to thousands of dollars.

Gunsmithing - Some older MGs are not in spec and will need to be worked on and then re-anodized. This can be done while you wait on your Form 4 approval but can run hundreds or even thousands of dollars depending on the firearm.

Rebuild Parts- Some owners abuse their MGs, especially those that bought pre-86 and didnt pay the inflated prices

Spare Parts - Most people keep spare AR and Ak parts on hand. But do you have spare parts for a MG42 or M1919 laying around? I know I dont.

Barrels - For belt feds you will want a extra barrel, especially if they are quick change. I take a spare generic M4 upper with me to the range for people just to do mag dumps in.

Not trying to scare you away from MG ownership, there are certainly way more pros than cons. For me lately the biggest problem I have is finding somewhere to shoot the thing. The private range I joined doesnt allow full auto, which I didnt find out until AFTER I joined. Some indoor ranges allow it but shooting at a single paper target 10-15 yards away gets boring quick.

You should get the M1A1 Thompson, it is a fantastic weapon.  

In 1921, Auto Ordnance had Colt make a batch of 15,000 Thompsons.  The gun was way overdesigned and everything about it was super-incredo-deluxe and Colt manufactured it like a fine sporting arm.

So it cost about $2400 in today's money and AO had a real hard time selling off their inventory.  Everyone was gobsmacked by the firepower but it just cost too much money to sell well.

It was just complete overkill but gun collectors love that kind of thing and the Colts are selling for between $35k to $65k now.

When WWII started, the Brits made a huge order of Thompsons and AO asked Colt to make some more.  Colt hated the Thompson because of all the bad press from the gangster activity with it, so they gave the tooling to Savage.

Savage made a couple of million of them for the brits and US during WWII.

When savage first started making Thompsons, they made an exact copy of the Colt 1928 model.  But they realized that the gun was over-designed and too feature laden, so they started streamlining the gun.

First they made the 1928A1 model that got rid of a few features like the finned barrel and vertical foregrip and the fancy Lyman ladder sight.

Then they came out with the M1 model which got rid of the fancy delayed blowback blish lock and went to straight blowback.  they also got rid of the drum magazines and came out with a 30 round stick.  the soldiers did not like the drums, they were too heavy and they rattled too much.

Then they came out with the M1A1 model which got rid of the firing pin assembly and went to a fixed pin.  

From a functional standpoint, the M1A1 is the best model.  They got rid of all the fancy stuff and made the gun even more reliable and rugged.  The M1A1 model is the most common model from WWII, they were made in the greatest numbers.

From a collecting standpoint, the 1928A1, M1 and M1A1 all sell for the same money, around $25k

You don't have to worry about keeping a WWII Thompson running any more than you need to worry about keeping a Garand running.  All of the Thompson models are built like a tank.  There is nothing on it to break.

If you find a nice minty USGI M1A1, you will never need any spare parts or any gunsmithing.  if you wear out the barrel at the 150,000 round mark, you can get a NOS barrel for around $250.

If you want to shoot drums with the M1 or M1A1, you can by a modified drum mag that will fit it.

The nice thing about the Thompson is the fact that it's precision machined from billet steel.  When you turn the selector from "semi" to "auto", you are turning a solid steel precision made part in a precision made mechanism.  

The other nice thing is the fact that the gun is extremely easy to shoot well.  You will be chewing the center out of targets on your first range trip.  It's very satisfying.

The only real weak point of the gun is the stick mags.  They work good but the feed lips are pretty thin and if you drop a loaded mag you will bend the living fouque out of the lips.  the mags are common and sell for about $35.

After the war, Numrich bought all the crated parts and assembled some final Thompsons, they are good guns and sell for about the same money as the WWII guns.  they have a serial number with an "NAC" prefix.

In the 1970s and 1980s, about 3,000 new Thompsons were made by a parts vendor that bought the rights to the defunct AO company.  They were sort of reverse engineered and made in small machine shops from a mixture of new and NOS parts.  They suffer from dimensional problems and sometimes do not run well.  They will always be marked WEST HURLEY, NY on the side.  They sell for about 25% less than the genuine pre-1945 guns.  I would probably stay away from them, I don't think the discount is worth it.

There is a good Thompson website, www.machinegunboards.com

great info. Always wondered why the West Hurley models sold for less.

I agree, for me as well this is the biggest drawkback to fullauto. It's tough to find somewhere to shoot it. I love dumping a mag into beer cans in a dirt pile with my suppressed M11...you can't do that at most clubs and certainly not an indoor range.

I'm not a fan of the crude sheet metal bullet hoses like the sten and the M3.

just not feeling it

my understanding is that the M3 is rare.


Also, the prices of the MG market are indicative of the fact that the MG market is being taken over by hardcore big money gun collectors.

Those guys think differently than the average casual gun collector.

Most guys would want an M16 because it's a cool gun and fun to shoot.  The hardcore collectors want to know what part number is on the hand guards.  And they will argue about stuff like that and then sit on their M16 collection until they die.

So you're going to see the prices looking more and more reflective of the collector personality.

Some guys who just want to shoot machineguns are starting small companies and getting their SOT.  Upside is you can build anything you want.  Downside is it all gets destroyed in the end and you have to make a small business of it.

I'm one of the ones that don't think it's worth it. I like shooting them, but honestly the first couple of times you shoot them its amazing and hilarious. Then once you do a few more mags, you're kind of over it. I've shot m16s in 9 and 22, thompson, a mac something, and my favorite was the Glock 18. my buddy owned a shop and was able to build stuff, so that's what I got to play with. I would burn up maybe $100 worth of ammo, giggle, get tired loading mags, hand it back.

For me *(YMMV) it's like having a buddy with a speedboat. I wanna play with it like once in a while, I will buy you gas/ammo/beer/dinner for the privilege, and then I'm done.

that same 18k would get me an SVI and a trip to every major 3 gun match I'd want to shoot in a year or more. Or pay off my son's whole college and make his career easier. Or be a good down payment on a cabin in the woods I could grow old in. Personally, I'll take a MG rental or buddy with one any day.

MGs are a luxury item and aren't for everyone. But unlike a boat they can be great investments. Also I don't think I've met a person yet who owned a MG and got so bored with it they sold it. Most people here have been MG owners for decades and their collection only grows larger. Those who sell usually have to for financial reasons and typically regret it.

Any idea if the cz26 auto is on the c&r list?

They might get boring, if all you do are mag-dumps. Fortunately, there is a lot more you can do with a machine gun, like becoming an effective full-auto shooter. Outside of specialized military groups, it is actually a fairly rare skill. "Taming the Beast" and making it do what you want it to, rather than it having its way with you, is both fun and rewarding.

Once you get the hang of it, you can participate in some full auto competitions, if that interests you. It's a great way to meet some like-minded folks that can become lifelong friends. You also might enjoy talking your gun to a machine gun shoot, and blasting away at some really cool "action" targets, like old cars, washing machines, etc.

There is a lot more to it than just mag-dumps, but every so often, a mag-dump can still give you that goofy "full-auto grin". That, as they say, is priceless.

Cyborg covered the Thompson pretty well... That's what my vote would be for....

But I'm biased.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_1iHH-pSUo[/youtube]

Well the Youtube button isn't working for me...

Micro Uzi and suppressor was a mighty sweet setup.  Long gone now, but there was a day...

Yep ......................

what thickness of buffer are you using with the full size uzi ?

I would like to speed mine up as well.

M2 Carbine is my grail gun.

Thanks

I love my UZI but I do find the operation to be bouncy and a little choppy.

They always say that slow firing MGs are more accurate but I find that faster ones stay on target better.

A Lage upper turns the Mac into a totally different creature.

True.

If someone can have only 1 machine gun, it's hard to beat an M16.

If you want WWII and cheap though, get a Sten.  One of the best machine guns I own.  Double that budget, and you get the even better MP40.

Macs are blah...

Have fun on the hunt!

He gave me this exact advice about 2 years ago when I was trying to decide for myself which gun to get into FA with.  I couldn't decide between a Sten and a Mac.  This guy has a lot of experience with a LARGE collection so i held his opinion with high regard.

I went with the Sten.  Then while waiting on the Sten I picked up a Mac as well.  
The Mac even with the lage upper is still less fun than the Sten.  I use the Mac more because I do monthly subgun matches and the Mac can be used in a more modern configuration, but hands down the Sten is more fun to own and shoot.

If I had to do it again or in the future if I'm able to get an m16.....I would always keep the Sten and lose the Mac for the m16.  
For a versatile gun; m16>Mac
The Sten is not versatile so don't get it for that reason. It's just a really fun gun.

And don't get me wrong the Mac is an awesome gun, and I use it a lot, but there are certainly more enjoyable guns out there.


Oh and also, owning your own is much different than renting or trying out a friends......

We all seem to fall into the trap of recommending a gun by saying that we personally like one gun better than another.

That's just a subjective personal preference, similar to saying you like vanilla better than chocolate.  It's not really all that helpful.

I'm always singing the praises of my two favorite subguns, the UZI and the Thompson.

I think the UZI is a brilliant design because even though it's made from sheet metal, it gives the impression of being a deluxe gun, it lacks for nothing, no corners were cut in function or durability or accuracy.  Even though it is a sub-compact MG, it handles nicely, like a little rifle.

The Thompson doesn't give the impression of being deluxe, it is actually a super-deluxe gun to the point of being overdesigned.  It points amazingly well and you find yourself shooting it very accurately.

Both of those guns give you the same impression as shooting a Garand, you have the feeling that you are shooting a very well designed gun that is helping you shoot better.  Also, both guns are absolutely reliable. And they both have plenty of mags and spare parts available.

That's my stab at being objective about the shooting qualities of them.

You're right. No one should post opinions on the interwebs.

Wow, thanks for the influx of personal and thoughtful recommendations!
I understand that a M16 or RDIAS is the most logical suggestion for a first or even only machine gun.

I may change my mind after shooting a variety of machine guns, but I think it's down to either the M1A1 Thompson vs a MP40 now with the long shot being a 1919A4. Since I'm such a WW2 guy, I think I'd get a huge kick out of shooting and owning a WW2 gun, but I'll still try out a full auto M16, Uzi, MP5, and Lage upper Mac.
I briefly considered a STG44 or a BAR, but 9mm and .45ACP are literally available everywhere and I have solid reloading setups for both calibers making the Thompson and MP40 the runaway favorites for now.
Seems like the Thompsons are extremely durable and overbuilt, but I haven't been able to find much similar information regarding the MP40.
I've heard nothing but excellent praise for the Sten from the youtube videos I've seen... so that's actually the dark horse for me now.


I do have a quick dumb question... I see big price differences for both the MP40 and the Sten. I notice the higher priced ones always say C&R. Are the cheaper ones made years after the war with parts laying around like the West Hurley Thompsons? As nice as it'd be to pay less... a huge part of the appeal for me is that they were made and used so long ago.

C&R means surplus, original factory guns. The rest are tube guns.

Yes the cheaper WWII style firearms are usually post war production made from surplus parts.

The nice thing about WWII MGs was there was a ton made the bad part is most were mass produced and quality suffered.

That's not my meaning.

When someone provides advice in the form of merely stating a preference for something, it's not useful.  

If I say that I like MAC10s better than M3s, that statement by itself would not be helpful.  I would need to add reasons if I wanted it to be persuasive.