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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 2/21/2012 7:40:28 AM EDT
I want to make one of these:


Since it's never had a shoulder stock and OAL is 26.5", it's only "firearm" and not an AOW.

My question is:Would I have to permanently attach the birds head grip to satisfy OAL requirements?
I ask because a standard Mossberg500 is 26" with an 18.5"bbl and no grip attached. it still satisfies OAL req's.
Link Posted: 2/21/2012 8:21:27 AM EDT
Two points:

If you make a 20 ga, you'll enjoy it a lot more, & there's #1 Buck available from NML Custom.

If the standard 500 is right @ 26", why not put a conventional PG on it & call it done?

I think you can get about 1.5" off the bbl w/ a conventional PG, but sub 18" is not legal in Texas. : (

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 2/21/2012 10:11:30 AM EDT
Standard PGs are horrible on 12 gauges. The shooter's wrist and hand at the thumb web take the brunt of the recoil.

A bird head grip directs the recoil along the forearm, making it more managable.

AND, the longer bird head grip allows more barrel to be removed while satisfying OAL req's.
Link Posted: 2/21/2012 5:55:31 PM EDT
Having shot a Mossy 500 from the hip w/ Navy 00, the recoil on any hand held 12 ga is going to be gosh-awful. Hence I run 20 ga in my PG - Pachmayr.

I get the longer grip allows more bbl to be taken off - what I don't understand is taking bbl (& mag length) off when you could have a shorter grip & longer bbl. To each his own...

Link Posted: 2/22/2012 5:51:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By echo_5:
Standard PGs are horrible on 12 gauges. The shooter's wrist and hand at the thumb web take the brunt of the recoil.

A bird head grip directs the recoil along the forearm, making it more managable.

AND, the longer bird head grip allows more barrel to be removed while satisfying OAL req's.
I had a bird's head on my 870 SBS with 14.5" barrel. After taking it to the range 2-3 times and nearly bashing out a few teeth on the last trip, I put the shortest Hogue stock I could find on it. Maybe the strap on the forearm would help, I don't have one on mine.

Kharn
Link Posted: 2/22/2012 6:20:07 PM EDT
As for the original question no you would not need to permanently attach the birds head.
Link Posted: 2/22/2012 9:15:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jjwheeler2:
As for the original question no you would not need to permanently attach the birds head.


This, I think the only thing that needs to be permanently attached per ATF specs is a muzzle device on a sub 16" (or 18" for shotgun) barrel which brings it up to to legal non-NFA length.
Link Posted: 2/24/2012 1:50:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SixSquared:
Originally Posted By jjwheeler2:
As for the original question no you would not need to permanently attach the birds head.


This, I think the only thing that needs to be permanently attached per ATF specs is a muzzle device on a sub 16" (or 18" for shotgun) barrel which brings it up to to legal non-NFA length.


I understand this perspective but, without the grip, it's still capable of discharging a shot.
I think that I'll perm-attach anyway.
Link Posted: 2/24/2012 1:56:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:
Originally Posted By echo_5:
Standard PGs are horrible on 12 gauges. The shooter's wrist and hand at the thumb web take the brunt of the recoil.

A bird head grip directs the recoil along the forearm, making it more managable.

AND, the longer bird head grip allows more barrel to be removed while satisfying OAL req's.
I had a bird's head on my 870 SBS with 14.5" barrel. After taking it to the range 2-3 times and nearly bashing out a few teeth on the last trip, I put the shortest Hogue stock I could find on it. Maybe the strap on the forearm would help, I don't have one on mine.

Kharn

May I inquire as to your stance and grip when you nearly bashed out a few teeth? Not hip-firing I asume?

I used to have a Mossberg cruiser with a PG (stolen)

With a shroud over the barrel, I'd wrap the support thumb over the shroud while firing.
I also used a two-point sling to create isometric tension.

This method made firing most controllable.

Link Posted: 2/24/2012 2:45:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By echo_5:

Originally Posted By SixSquared:
Originally Posted By jjwheeler2:
As for the original question no you would not need to permanently attach the birds head.


This, I think the only thing that needs to be permanently attached per ATF specs is a muzzle device on a sub 16" (or 18" for shotgun) barrel which brings it up to to legal non-NFA length.


I understand this perspective but, without the grip, it's still capable of discharging a shot.
I think that I'll perm-attach anyway.


So are most 16" bbl rifles w/ stock removed when under 26". That doesn't make them NFA items - they're just rifles w/ the stock removed. Trust me, you won't find a ATFE agent who's gonna set off a 12 ga shotgun w/ no stock from his hand. It's bad enough to shoot a 12 ga from the shoulder - you have my compliments you want to shoot it from the hand. I'll stick to my 20 ga.

Link Posted: 2/24/2012 3:19:56 PM EDT
870 at eye level, support hand against the sling loop at the front of the magazine pushing it as far forward as I could, blading with weak side forward. The forearm slipped out of my support hand (I had a tight sling from the mag loop to the bottom of the birds head, but it didn't keep my support hand in place as it normally did) and my strong side thumb slammed into my upper jaw. Basically, I flinched and let go too early.

Kharn

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 12:04:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kharn:
870 at eye level, support hand against the sling loop at the front of the magazine pushing it as far forward as I could, blading with weak side forward. The forearm slipped out of my support hand (I had a tight sling from the mag loop to the bottom of the birds head, but it didn't keep my support hand in place as it normally did) and my strong side thumb slammed into my upper jaw. Basically, I flinched and let go too early.

Kharn

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


I did that when I was shooting trap with mine
Link Posted: 3/25/2012 4:45:53 PM EDT
Is this really real? Can be done without NFA?

echo_5 would this be legal in CT also?
Link Posted: 3/26/2012 7:42:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AJJ:
Is this really real? Can be done without NFA?

echo_5 would this be legal in CT also?


Yes. It is absolutely legal. At least one other CT Team member has one.

Because of the words "designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder" in the definition of a shotgun.

Without a shoulder stock, the weapon was never designed or intended to be shoulder fired. It is not a shotgun. It is only a firearm.

Itmust be transfered to you on the 4473 as OTHER.


Now the definition of an AOW includes firearms <26" OAL and weapons over 26" that are concealed.

So,if you make one, keep the OAL over 26" and DO NOT conceal it.


Shockwavetechnologies.com makes birds head grips and has legal info on their site as well.
Link Posted: 3/26/2012 7:52:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By echo_5:

Yes. It is absolutely legal. At least one other CT Team member has one.

Because of the words "designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder" in the definition of a shotgun.

Without a shoulder stock, the weapon was never designed or intended to be shoulder fired. It is not a shotgun. It is only a firearm.

Itmust be transfered to you on the 4473 as OTHER.


Now the definition of an AOW includes firearms <26" OAL and weapons over 26" that are concealed.

So,if you make one, keep the OAL over 26" and DO NOT conceal it.


Shockwavetechnologies.com makes birds head grips and has legal info on their site as well.

I wish he had parts for Remington 870's.

Link Posted: 3/26/2012 9:52:22 AM EDT
That is sweet!!! Thanks echo, I will be looking into making one

I think I like the bird head grip also. Allows for the 14" barrel look and seems will handle recoil as described
Link Posted: 3/26/2012 10:05:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AJJ:
That is sweet!!! Thanks echo, I will be looking into making one

I think I like the bird head grip also. Allows for the 14" barrel look and seems will handle recoil as described


In the picture in the OP, that's a 14" forend with a 4+1 capacity.



The standard 18.5" forend will allow for a 15"bbl if cut down even with the mag tube, giving an OAL of about 28" with the Shockwave grip.
Link Posted: 3/26/2012 10:06:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MP15T:

Originally Posted By echo_5:

Yes. It is absolutely legal. At least one other CT Team member has one.

Because of the words "designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder" in the definition of a shotgun.

Without a shoulder stock, the weapon was never designed or intended to be shoulder fired. It is not a shotgun. It is only a firearm.

Itmust be transfered to you on the 4473 as OTHER.


Now the definition of an AOW includes firearms <26" OAL and weapons over 26" that are concealed.

So,if you make one, keep the OAL over 26" and DO NOT conceal it.


Shockwavetechnologies.com makes birds head grips and has legal info on their site as well.

I wish he had parts for Remington 870's.


Speedfeed makes an 870 birds head grip.
Link Posted: 3/26/2012 10:32:44 AM EDT
Perhaps a knoxx breachergrip could work pending its length

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s506/ajj11/images.jpg
Link Posted: 3/26/2012 10:54:19 AM EDT
I have been doing some searching. Where can one of these pistol grip Mossberg's with the 14" be purchased at?

I have never heard or seen them before.

Link Posted: 3/26/2012 1:09:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MP15T:
I have been doing some searching. Where can one of these pistol grip Mossberg's with the 14" be purchased at?

I have never heard or seen them before.



You'll have to make one.

First get a Mossberg Persuader. This is a pistol gripped 12 gauge with an 18.5" bbl.

After you've decided on your grip, (this will affect OAL), you can either chop your existing barrel down to 15" or buy a 14" forend.

I prefer chopping the existing barrel for two reasons; one more round than the 14" forend and you already have it.
Link Posted: 3/26/2012 1:42:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2012 5:07:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By echo_5:

Originally Posted By AJJ:
Is this really real? Can be done without NFA?

echo_5 would this be legal in CT also?


Yes. It is absolutely legal. At least one other CT Team member has one.

Because of the words "designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder" in the definition of a shotgun.

Without a shoulder stock, the weapon was never designed or intended to be shoulder fired. It is not a shotgun. It is only a firearm.

Itmust be transfered to you on the 4473 as OTHER.


Now the definition of an AOW includes firearms <26" OAL and weapons over 26" that are concealed.

So,if you make one, keep the OAL over 26" and DO NOT conceal it.


Shockwavetechnologies.com makes birds head grips and has legal info on their site as well.

Yep, go for it! If the dealer tells you they won't do transfer a pistol-gripped 12g as "other" because they sell them as a shotgun (cough Riverview cough) tell them to pound sand and show them the back of the 4473 where it specifically says to transfer it as "other" and not to transfer it to persons under the age of 21.
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