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Posted: 10/27/2006 9:00:23 AM EDT
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Once again, I am ready to pick up another NFA toy. I have roughly $15k to spend, maybe a little more. I've narrowed my choices down to an HK sear pack/HK51 or a 1919. Now I'm agonizing over the choice because this will likely be the last big ticket item I buy (maybe I'll get another low cost subgun someday). In any case, I do want a larger caliber gun since I already have an M16 and an Uzi. I like HK51's. A LOT. And going the registered sear route would allow me to have several configurations and calibers to choose from on any given day. It would also be easy to throw it in a case and take it along to a shoot. Not insignificant is the fact that it wouldn't take up much room in the safe. Mags are dirt cheap. I haven't done much research as to spare parts availability though. But the 1919 has its own list of advantages. First of all, it's a belt fed.  It's also nearly indestructable and parts are widely available should something go wrong. And it's a belt fed. I could also set it up in different calibers when different surplus becomes available, such as 8mm. And besides, it's a belt fed.Either will likely increase in value and probably at a similar rate. THe 1919 requires extras such as belts or links, tripod, etc. Also the 1919 would almost certainly burn up more ammo on any given day, while the 51 would pretty much wreck a guy's shoulder if he dumped a thousand or so rounds through it, to say the least. The 1919 would cost significantly more to buy and to operate. Any input, suggestions, or perspective would be greatly appreciated. I want both, but at this level, that just ain't doable for me. |
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get the HK sear. Especially if this will be your last NFA purchase. It will give you the option of 4 or 5 differnt calibers including 308 which you said was a main goal. 1919's are cool but they are very expensive to feed especially if its a 30-06. If you want belt fed, get an HK21 or even a 23 (you can have them made). I went with the RR M16 just because of the price of Hk sears and I really love the AR platform . But if I had the funds Id get one. |
+1 You missed a beauty that David Spiwak just sold ...... Scroll down a little ...... www.davidspiwak.com/page%204.htm |
I was watching that one, but it got away before I had my funds. M60Howard had a couple of nice ones in September too, both gone now. |
Hey there's always AutoWeapons .....  
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Certainly the Sear/hosts are easier to take to the range. Cost wise Id say the 2 options are a wash. While you'll have get a 'pod, belt loader/linker, barrels and spares for the 1919 you'll have to buy hosts for the sear. Depending on the host route you go you might even have more in the sear set up - you know you'll buy more than one host. As far as ammo goes youve overlooked the cost of shooting 8mm in your 1919 - lots of guys do it since its dirt cheap so Id scrap the idea of ammo costs being an issue. Parts are certainly cheaper on the 1919's. Theyre are lots of guys that have built their own semi 1919's which should illustrate how much easier to work on they are. There arent as many HK do it yourself'ers. So now it comes down to your local shooting ranges and how much you want to lug all the crap that goes with a belt fed to the range. Will your local range nazi's flip if you show up with a belt fed? The idiots in OK really freaked when I'd bring a Semi belt fed..I'll guess you wont shoot the 1919 as much 'cause you'll get tired of loading all the stuff in your car. Of course then ask yourself, how cool do you feel at an MG shoot WITHOUT a belt fed? Wasnt it nice of me to muddy the water? Sorry! Also dont forget you can get an HK21/23 host for around 7-8K. Damn me that didnt help either! Ok, Id get the 1919 since I have a few semi's and I already have every damn accessory, 3 tripods, 2 belt loaders, a linker and a shit load of new barrels.... How about getting your 07 FFL and SOT - then you can build or buy both and afford a pallet of ammo for both!!!! |
Yeah, thanks!  An update: I might have a line on an HK51 that's already in state, that belongs to a friend of mine, and that I've fired myself before.  In fact it's the very gun that made me want a 51 in the first place. It's Fleming sear pack, and if I understood him correctly Fleming also built the gun.That has considerably un-muddied the waters for me. I'll know for sure probably in the next couple of days if we can make a deal. 
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Gus, I would pick up one of DLO's registered HK trigger frames. These are factory HK trigger frames that Doug modified for use on semiauto HK 9x receivers. They accept all factory HK internals (including a factory autosear) and can be used on any 9x rifle, carbine, pistol, or clone thereof. There are no hammer timing issues because everything is factory. The beauty of these is that you get the flexibility of a sear, with the ability to use all factory parts (with exception of the obvious need to use a clipped/pinned lower). The flexibility of a sear with the parts availability of a registered receiver. It can be put into any platic or steel standard (non-ambidextrous) lower. The only downside is that you can't use it in an ambidextrous/Navy lower, but I know that Urbach has modified a few of the LaFrance registered packs for use in ambidextrous/Navy lowers. I picked on up at the end of September and will use it in an SP89/MP5K-Navy host. I am looking into having mine mod'd to use it in an ambi/Navy lower as these are my personal favorite. Doug (DLO) was selling these about a month ago for $12.5K, but he has pulled the ad on Subguns. I would give him a call directly if you're interested: 863-491-8622 I feel like I've become a cheerleader for these since buying one myself. They are virtually indestructible, as it is the stamped steel trigger frame that is serialized. There is almost NO concern for wear and tear, damage, or destruction to these. I think it is a no-brainer....if given the choice I'd take one of the DLO frames over a sear any day. And you can always put this into a nice 21 beltfed host if you want to run belts. |
Yeah, I'm no longer interested in a Shrike at least for now. Maybe if they ever reach full production numbers and I can get one without getting gang raped on the price (although I agree the market sets the price, in this case the price has driven me out of the market). |
You NEED to make the trip to Bulletfest one of these years!! You can shoot any of my stuff as much as you want. Oh, and bring your stuff too.  I'm pretty much settled on a sear pack, and I think I might be buying one that's already built into a 51 (if things work out on the seller's end).
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Yes its the 21. You can also get a 556 belt fed (named 23) but both are very pricey for just the "hosts". For me, I think a beta mag is good enough for now. (theyre making a beta for the G3 soon (if not already) too.
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Get the HK sear and 51 Gus. You have talked about one for a long time, and now the time is right. I bought an Fleming Hk sear MP5 a few months ago and I could not be more happy with it. I plan to add a V51, 53 and G3K hosts in time.....and a 21 if I don't get another MG. |
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I don't own a 1919 but do own a HK51. However, I have shot a 1919 and personally don't find them all that exciting. Tripod mounted guns (save the M2) really are sort of boring. You just sit there and pull the trigger. Sort of like an automatic transmission sportscar. "Wow this is sort of neat but my grandmother could pull a sub 5 sec 60 time by pushing her cane tip against the throttle". I sort of feel the same way about the 1919. Don't get me wrong there are alot of positives about a 1919, parts, cheap ammo, reliability, etc. but there is also a lot of convenience with an automatic Vette also but I wouldnt buy one either. HK51 are a blast to shoot (literally) and 30rd dumps are enough from the adreline department, however I am anxiously awaiting the new 308 CMAG for some real punishment. Another plus is that you can put the 51 in a carbine case and have it ready to go in no time. The 1919 requires a lot more setup time to get it ready and more gear/tripods/inkers to haul with you. My next purchase is going to be a beltfed since that is the biggest hole in my collection to date and I have ruled out the 1919 for all their conveniences as they just don't do much for me from a shooting perspective. I may add one someday just to round out the WW2 perspective of my collection. But the M60 is next on my list to satisfy my beltfed itch with the HK21K close behind. James Austin, Texas |
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Gus, I would heads toward a belt-fed. You can get a 1919 for the 15K price range. Ammo is cheap and plentyful if you go with 8mm and parts are abundant. The reliability is great. While I do consider the 1919 limted regarding firing positions (and maybe overall fun) it is hard to beat the fun of a belt-fed regardless of which one you own. Now if you push another 4-5k into it, you could get a HK21 wiith an HK sear. That way later on you could purchase more host guns for the sear. HK sears are very versitile (9mm, .40, .223, & 308) and Vector is currently bringing new host guns to the market at fairly resonable prices. The draw back to the HK21s are parts are expensive and the price of .308 ammo is getting higher due to the shrinking supply of surplus (maybe after the war in Iraq it may get better unless the Dems screw us). As for the HK51s. I owned one and did not like it. It was cool initially but lost its luster pretty quick. Once I bought my belt-fed, I have no idea how I lived without it. Click To See The M60E4 In Action  RIA M60-E4 |
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