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Posted: 5/23/2010 4:18:59 PM EDT
| So I want to form 1 a havoc. Anyone know who can chamber it for 40mm, enlarge the bore and maybe even rifle it? |
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Well I have some plans in the works but it might be 6 months before I can finish all the tooling for the rifling. I have chambered and bored the barrels but only smooth bore right now. When I get everything done I will let everyone know. Did you ream the bore slightly undersized for now to account for the finished dimensions(ID of the lands) once rifled? |
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Quoted:
So I want to form 1 a havoc. Anyone know who can chamber it for 40mm, enlarge the bore and maybe even rifle it? Are you wanting to rifle it for increased range? I had a barrel bored out to 40mm, machine shop charged $20. I gave them a casing to go along with it and they an amazing job. |
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Riflinjg will not give you increased range. It is even debatable if rifling will give you better accuracy as the M79's were not rifled and had excellent range (range depends on the round being fired). The M203's and all other modern launchers are rifled so as to activate the "spin fuse" of modern projectiles. I had my tube bored out to handle a40mm Beehive but that is when I lived in LA and have moved to CO since them. It was a shop called A&M Tool Cutting and I believe they charged me $40. The mistake I made is that I put 37mm down on my form1. Technically you can make changes but need to be able to revert back to it's original form that was specified on the Form1. I had to buy a spare 37mm tube from Spikes so I could switch between the two. Make sure you put 40mm on your Form1.
MadDog. |
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Quoted:
Riflinjg will not give you increased range. It is even debatable if rifling will give you better accuracy as the M79's were not rifled and had excellent range (range depends on the round being fired). The M203's and all other modern launchers are rifled so as to activate the "spin fuse" of modern projectiles. I had my tube bored out to handle a40mm Beehive but that is when I lived in LA and have moved to CO since them. It was a shop called A&M Tool Cutting and I believe they charged me $40. The mistake I made is that I put 37mm down on my form1. Technically you can make changes but need to be able to revert back to it's original form that was specified on the Form1. I had to buy a spare 37mm tube from Spikes so I could switch between the two. Make sure you put 40mm on your Form1. MadDog. M79s were rifled. The oldest HE were also spin fuze activated. Rifling improves accuracy. GROG |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Well I have some plans in the works but it might be 6 months before I can finish all the tooling for the rifling. I have chambered and bored the barrels but only smooth bore right now. When I get everything done I will let everyone know. Did you ream the bore slightly undersized for now to account for the finished dimensions(ID of the lands) once rifled? Nope they will have to buy a new barrel for the next go round. Right now the tooling plans are just on paper and I have picked up some materials. Right now we are covered up with so much I have not even had time to think about it. |
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Quoted:
Riflinjg will not give you increased range. It is even debatable if rifling will give you better accuracy as the M79's were not rifled and had excellent range (range depends on the round being fired). The M203's and all other modern launchers are rifled so as to activate the "spin fuse" of modern projectiles. I had my tube bored out to handle a40mm Beehive but that is when I lived in LA and have moved to CO since them. It was a shop called A&M Tool Cutting and I believe they charged me $40. The mistake I made is that I put 37mm down on my form1. Technically you can make changes but need to be able to revert back to it's original form that was specified on the Form1. I had to buy a spare 37mm tube from Spikes so I could switch between the two. Make sure you put 40mm on your Form1. MadDog. Actually you don't need to be able to revert back to anything. You can put "37mm" on the Form 1 and ream it up to 120mm if you want, it has no legal implication whatsoever. You posted this info on another thread. Who told you this? They should be shot... |
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Homeinvader: I was told this by BATFE when I called and talked to someone in their Tech Department. They said I can swap uppers and barrels (different cal and/or length) as much as I want as long as it was a "temporary change" and that the NFA item had the ability to reverto to it's "original" approved form. They said if I decide to change the barrel's cal by boreing it out that was a permanent change and that I had to send them a letter stating it's new status and they would reflect that status change by ammending the NFA Registry. It was simpler to just get a second barrel. Was the BATFE Tech wrong? MadDog 
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Quoted:
Homeinvader: I was told this by BATFE when I called and talked to someone in their Tech Department. They said I can swap uppers and barrels (different cal and/or length) as much as I want as long as it was a "temporary change" and that the NFA item had the ability to reverto to it's "original" approved form. They said if I decide to change the barrel's cal by boreing it out that was a permanent change and that I had to send them a letter stating it's new status and they would reflect that status change by ammending the NFA Registry. It was simpler to just get a second barrel. Was the BATFE Tech wrong? MadDog More likely you misunderstood them, but if you heard what you heard, then yes, whoever you spoke to is incorrect. That's just not how it works legally or practically. What did your Tech Branch contact say would be the penalty for not being able to revert to its registered configuration? ATF doesn't have the authority to conduct nor do they practice the level of post-registration management you suggest. They cannot sub-divide "SBR" or "SBS" or "DD" any further than their legal definitions. What you suggest is that there exists a "10" SBR" and a separate "14" SBR", which is not the case. In reality there is simply "SBR". Once a firearm is an "SBR" it may use any barrel length or caliber, registration is simply it's configuration at the time of registration. All very simple. I'm not poking fun at you, please don't take offense. This is just a common misconception and I'm always curious how it endures. |
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No offense taken. The misconception endures because people like the Tech Branch rep I talked to spreads this information. What I described is exactly what he said. When you submit your Form1 you not only specify SBR or SBS or DD but you also fill in the box that says barrel length and caliber. His point is what you fill in those boxes is the configuration when they afix the stamp on the form and if you wanted to permanently change that information you should send in a letter saying so. Other wise keep the changes temporary. He never talked about penalties for non-compliance and I never asked. Just telling you what he said, MadDog |
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With launchers (DDs) it SHOULD be much easier. Once you register the launcher as a DD, it is a DD regardless if it has a 37mm or 40mm barrel on it. Also regardless of if you have a 12" or 9" barrel on it. The receiver is the registered part, not the barrel, or the upper, or whatever. The only thing you need is, if someone is checking your paperwork, is a matching serial number, with a matching tax stamp. If it is a DD, and registered as such, then no problemo.
The only time I think there might be some sort of issue might be when a LEO is checking your paperwork for some reason, and it says "40mm' and "12" barrel" and he is looking at a 37mm barrel that is 9" long. This would confuse the issue, for the person doing the checking. You know that person would then call ATF FTB and get even more confused... Hopefully, they would get someone fimilliar with launchers. |
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I emailed Randy Shivak. No luck there. Randy is not entertaining any ideas of anything for barrels at the moment. I have spoke with him several times and he has no plans to produce anything but adapters and a handful of M79 receivers and M203 receivers. I purchased his last 37MM barrel and at the moment the last one ever. |
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LMT web site say... Twist rate on the launchers is 1:48"
http://www.lewismachine.net/store.php?cid=10 edit to add Barrel Rifling R.H., six lands, pitch 1 in 48 inches (1,219 mm) per http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/M79.html |
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Interesting discussion about caliber changes, and notifying the ATF. Another interesting aspect to this is that according to the NFA handbook, only a machine gun receiver is always NFA, or rather, not NFA by configuration; i.e., a registered SBR is only an SBR if it actually has a short barrel on it. In other words, I can have an M203 reciever, but if it has a 37mm smooth bore barrel, it is not subject to the NFA. As an extension of this concept, if I have a registered smooth bore 37mm DD, and I don't have any DD ammunition, I should not be subject to the NFA at that particular moment, even if the device is in the NFA registry.
FWIW, rifling will give you longer range and better accuracy if you are shooting cylindrical projectiles without fins. If the pointy end stays forward in flight, the projectile will be more aerodynamic, and fly farther. So Randy Shivak is not making any more 37mm smooth bore M203 barrels? |
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