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Quoted: Its too bad Switzerland can’t supply more ammo to the US market. They seem to take consumer ammunition quality more seriously than US ammunition companies. Europe probably has leaned on politicians to force the US taxpayers into buying all that ammo to charitably donate it to Ukraine. Its too bad we can’t all buy a jogging outfit and get on the free ammo train. View Quote Pretty crazy PSA can just nuke that thread, there wasn't any bashing going on. Good on you for standing behind your product and fixing OP's can. |
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Quoted: @FailureToFun What happened to your AAC 55gr ammo post? View Quote They didn't tell me they were going to do that. However, they are taking care of me. They are sending me out 300 rounds to replace the original 200 that was purchased. I sent in the remaining ammo I had to AAC so they can conduct an evaluation. In the event dead air will charge me for the repairs, I will receive a gift card for the bill from PSA. |
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Quoted: Yup. Nuked. They didn't tell me they were going to do that. However, they are taking care of me. They are sending me out 300 rounds to replace the original 200 that was purchased. I sent in the remaining ammo I had to AAC so they can conduct an evaluation. In the event dead air will charge me for the repairs, I will receive a gift card for the bill from PSA. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: @FailureToFun What happened to your AAC 55gr ammo post? They didn't tell me they were going to do that. However, they are taking care of me. They are sending me out 300 rounds to replace the original 200 that was purchased. I sent in the remaining ammo I had to AAC so they can conduct an evaluation. In the event dead air will charge me for the repairs, I will receive a gift card for the bill from PSA. You mean Griffin? And that's wild they just deleted whole thread. |
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Quoted: You mean Griffin? And that's wild they just deleted whole thread. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @FailureToFun What happened to your AAC 55gr ammo post? They didn't tell me they were going to do that. However, they are taking care of me. They are sending me out 300 rounds to replace the original 200 that was purchased. I sent in the remaining ammo I had to AAC so they can conduct an evaluation. In the event dead air will charge me for the repairs, I will receive a gift card for the bill from PSA. You mean Griffin? And that's wild they just deleted whole thread. No Griffin is taking care of him and he also had a DA can get damaged by the ammo. So he had to send it to DA. |
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Doesn’t surprise me that PSA deleted your post, they’vedeleted one of mine in the past.
They really can be shady at times. I understand every company has issues here and there but covering them up is scummy. It’s also why I don’t buy from them anymore. |
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Quoted: Wow....they sure did. That really makes me question spending any more money with them. View Quote Right? So OP tries to warn people about crappy ammo that will nuke their cans and PSA just wiped it under the rug lol. Producing crap ammo is one thing, trying to keep that info from consumers is infinitely worse. Screw PSA |
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Quoted: Right? So OP tries to warn people about crappy ammo that will nuke their cans and PSA just wiped it under the rug lol. Producing crap ammo is one thing, trying to keep that info from consumers is infinitely worse. Screw PSA View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Wow....they sure did. That really makes me question spending any more money with them. Right? So OP tries to warn people about crappy ammo that will nuke their cans and PSA just wiped it under the rug lol. Producing crap ammo is one thing, trying to keep that info from consumers is infinitely worse. Screw PSA Bad look for sure |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wow....they sure did. That really makes me question spending any more money with them. Right? So OP tries to warn people about crappy ammo that will nuke their cans and PSA just wiped it under the rug lol. Producing crap ammo is one thing, trying to keep that info from consumers is infinitely worse. Screw PSA Bad look for sure |
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Well, over a week ago, PSA was supposed to get me replacement ammo in the mail that day. A week goes by and no tracking. I ask about tracking and was told I should get tracking either at the end of the day on wednesday, or by COB the next day on thursday. Still no tracking at this point.
I did receive an update from AAC and their preliminary testing pointed towards the ammo being bad but they arent done with testing. Im not exactly sure how long testing on 60 rounds would take but Im looking forward to hearing what exactly was wrong with the ammo and why they deleted my post that could potentially save others from dealing with the same situation. Overall not too impressed with everything. Shall I say they lost another customer? Only time will tell.. |
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Life is too short for shitty ammo. Shitty ammo will make a shooter question everything. Now maybe the gun doesn't work, or maybe he can't shoot straight anymore, or his magazines might suck or whatever.
When you get to the range, that should increase your confidence, not reduce it and send you into replacement of odd component parts searching for a solution to a phantom problem. |
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well, 400 rounds showed up earlier. Pulled one of the bullets and it looks like it should. Ill take some to the range tomorrow and see how they run. I likely wont ever run this ammo suppressed ever again. Note to self: Never buy in early on the first run of ammo.
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Quoted: Life is too short for shitty ammo. Shitty ammo will make a shooter question everything. Now maybe the gun doesn't work, or maybe he can't shoot straight anymore, or his magazines might suck or whatever. When you get to the range, that should increase your confidence, not reduce it and send you into replacement of odd component parts searching for a solution to a phantom problem. View Quote |
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Quoted: I agree. I was about to pull apart my upper until I saw my muzzle device. Atleast I popped my baffle strike cherry. View Quote Baffle strikes are really rare. Hopefully you wont have to experience that again. It can't really be understated how low quality ammunition has to be for the bullets not to stay together for 6" of flight. I fired a prototype 240B suppressor yesterday, 600 rounds in one burst. Zero baffle contact. No malfunctions. It's the most durable silencer our company has made. The gun ran that in 58 seconds. ~620 rounds a minute cyclic rate. I wouldn't be surprised if the ROF wasn't up more than 25RPM from unsuppressed. Sound metering it was interesting. I adjusted timing of the "trigger" in B&K 75 microseconds to sound meter it. It appeared about 75-80MS behind conventional firearms, due to open bolt operation. |
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Quoted: Baffle strikes are really rare. Hopefully you wont have to experience that again. It can't really be understated how low quality ammunition has to be for the bullets not to stay together for 6" of flight. I fired a prototype 240B suppressor yesterday, 600 rounds in one burst. Zero baffle contact. No malfunctions. It's the most durable silencer our company has made. The gun ran that in 58 seconds. ~620 rounds a minute cyclic rate. I wouldn't be surprised if the ROF wasn't up more than 25RPM from unsuppressed. Sound metering it was interesting. I adjusted timing of the "trigger" in B&K 75 microseconds to sound meter it. It appeared about 75-80MS behind conventional firearms, due to open bolt operation. View Quote I have been seeing those 240 collapasible stocks pop up more and more. 0331's are probably digging those a lot. |
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Quoted: I did see that post on FB. looked like a 10ft belt of pure joy. I have fired 240's, M2's, mk19's, negev's in both 5.56 and 7.62, and quite a few rounds through a Bushmaser M242. None of them suppressed(obviously not the M242) so I am sure that was some good fun! I have been seeing those 240 collapasible stocks pop up more and more. 0331's are probably digging those a lot. View Quote That guns kind of not 100% or I also have some shit ammo- remanufactured from lake city pull downs. We have to spray oil the ammo to keep it from having separated case heads (stuck cases with ripped off heads)- that's been a problem as long as we have had it. That means you kind of breathe vaporized rem oil while firing it because the heat of firing evaporates the rem-oil near instantly. We did have a different batch of ammo for that- mag tech factory new, but I needed it to run 100% or I would have to re-shoot and the ammo would be a waste, so I spray oiled it anyway. I never had to do that to an issued 240. I would prefer to burst fire at distance as opposed to just shoot a belt into a berm, but that's kind of how a lot of suppressor testing work goes. It was interesting to fire 5-6 rounds without ear pro and have no ringing or anything, and it's neat to think about the military possibly having some interest in them. The collapsible stock is cool, and it has a cheek rest for optics that I took off because I wasn't running any (you can't see the sights with it on). In Iraq I did a decent amount of vehicle work on turret guns- M2's 240's, Saws, Mk46's and MK19's. I used the 240 more than the others from the turret and it was sometimes like that Indiana Jones movie with the tank- the gun is a dream to shoot- puts rounds wherever you want them, even with the vehicle moving at some speed. I liked the 240 better than than any of the other turret guns. Same experience as you- unsuppressed all. I think the idea of a turret gunner being able to shoot without taking miles off everyone's ears is cool. In a city, an M2 is kind of big, if you weren't careful you could hit something with the barrel when the turret was sideways, and one of our guys almost got his finger chopped off by the spades pinching it on the turret armor when something impacted the barrel while moving. I would hear people sometimes cuss and stuff, indicating their ears hurt. I always had my ear plugs in so I could shoot if I needed to- it was at that point in time my job obviously, and we needed to be on top of whatever needed attention pretty much immediately. The Bushmaster is a bitch. I never shot one, but spent a little time on a kuwaiti range once right next to one, and it was not fun to be next to a Bradley shooting on a range. That brake is insanely loud the concussion you'd swear it picks you up a little bit off the ground every time it shoots. The concussion has to be at least 30% worse than an XM107 |
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Quoted: Better close up of the swing mount and a whole lot of hate getting ready to go down range. https://i.imgur.com/GCUyG2q.jpg View Quote Mmmmm.... 25mm deliciousness... |
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Bravo Griffin for handling it without pointing any fingers. Well freakin done!
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Quoted: Thats interesting. Do you have a spare barrel to try? Im thinking that might be a headspace issue. 3-5 clicks when ratcheting the carry handle over on the barrel is what Ive been trained to be acceptable. But then again, I am not a machine gunner just an 0313 that got to play with a lot of them. On our LAV's we used these swing mounts for our 240's. They are an absoulte nightmare to use even from a static postion. They had us doing all sorts of gymnatics in the turret trying to brace ourselves againgst the main gun and turret. picture is when I was on a C2 variant. https://i.imgur.com/bUrD8Om.jpg My tinitus can be 100% contributed to sitting in the drivers hole about a foot below that main gun. Feels like getting a full body slap at 200RPM. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Thats interesting. Do you have a spare barrel to try? Im thinking that might be a headspace issue. 3-5 clicks when ratcheting the carry handle over on the barrel is what Ive been trained to be acceptable. But then again, I am not a machine gunner just an 0313 that got to play with a lot of them. On our LAV's we used these swing mounts for our 240's. They are an absoulte nightmare to use even from a static postion. They had us doing all sorts of gymnatics in the turret trying to brace ourselves againgst the main gun and turret. picture is when I was on a C2 variant. https://i.imgur.com/bUrD8Om.jpg My tinitus can be 100% contributed to sitting in the drivers hole about a foot below that main gun. Feels like getting a full body slap at 200RPM. It is totally mysterious to me- rem oil the rounds and it runs, otherwise case the rear about .300" of case head is ripped off in 1-3 rounds no matter what can I'm running or even without a can. Maybe the barrel was sold to me because it had a bad chamber? I got a pretty good deal on it like $600 new. I found this from the USMC: https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/TBS/W3I0003XQ%20M240B%20Medium%20Machinegun.pdf Check for proper headspace by rotating the barrel-changing handle while counting the number of clicks heard. You should hear a minimum of two clicks but not more than seven. I think in the Army they told us 3-7 but my memory could be wrong. I have 6 clicks on my barrel. I also have a pair of barrels, and I think the other is at 5 or 6 also- same issue. Those swing mounts really seem odd if they actually swing on two pivot points radially. Our turrets were only one radial pivot, the turret being the second, and it having a manual crank for rotation, and a lock that could be disengaged via a lever to allow you to move like 180 fast ( I think with the crank handle spinning), then re-engage the ring lever lock and use the radial pintle pivot and getting elevation via a receiver pin pivot I believe on the mount which was like a pintle fork with a pin through it on top. I forgot I also was an M60 gunner earlier. The M60 wasn't an M240, but it was nice and light for LRRS missions. I liked the gun, but it shot patterns about 6x6 at maybe 450 meters and that made it harder to qualify with on a pop up range. But that just meant people shot 60's all day to qualify, whereas an M240 is a one time go. You could get discouraged or just say fuck it I'm being paid to shoot an M60 all day long. I think I took like 3-4 attempts to qual on the pop up range with it, and I was really trying the whole time. The barrels on those 60's you could grab and rattle around though, and the rear sights were I believe open sights like a 1928 thompson, even when the rear was flipped up. Shooting with the 240 from a bipod with the can the other day, I could easily see my sights and the gun was almost recoil-less. The M60 was a different animal in that you really had to muscle the gun on the bipod, and it was tough to retain a sight picture while firing it. I talked to a SEAL (the show guy for Seal1 lubricants) at a show in Arizona years ago, and he said they would get issued a bunch of barrels and put them in a pile and test fit barrels to find barrels that fit tighter, and even throw some out if they didn't fit tight enough, for that reason (accuracy). In the Army we just had shitty barrel fit and lived with it. When I was in Iraq in 2004, I saw a couple units drive through that were still running M60's in OIF. We had 240B's at that point, but still had Winchester 1200 trench guns, and got issued some Mossberg 500's in 2005. Charles Kaufmann was unfortunately killed in the first half of a mission I ran the mirrored second half of, 240 gunning, escorting Iraqi police recruits from Tikrit to BIAP, and trained recruits back from BIAP to Tikrit, in 2005. He was 19, and had come back to Iraq after a near fatal accident deer hunting on leave when he had an option to not return. He's in the picture with the 1200 trenchgun on the Samarra Barrage hydro-electric power dam on the Tigris River. I had my only malf running a 240 on a mission on that mission- back then the regulators had three positions, after that mission I always ran position 2(second slowest rate of fire). The gun had short stroked and failed to re-cock itself, and I only figured that out when I had to shoot it again and needed to charge it to get it to fire. Here's a 50cal overlooking the town from turret: An M60 on the range M60 on the zero / first component of qual - traverse and search paper part of the range: A little Infantry comedy- Dead Little Ivan that fucked me out of a 39/40 (the 50M Right was broken), so when we put up chem lights for a night fam fire, I stabbed him with my bayonet to make sure he didn't get the better part of that. |
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Quoted: Better close up of the swing mount and a whole lot of hate getting ready to go down range. https://i.imgur.com/GCUyG2q.jpg View Quote The cannon shells look pretty formidable. |
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Quoted: They ever get you taken care of? Also, seent on the redit https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/received_1495719961219202-2773192.jpg Wondering if the ammo is from the same Lot View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Yup. Nuked. They didn't tell me they were going to do that. However, they are taking care of me. They are sending me out 300 rounds to replace the original 200 that was purchased. I sent in the remaining ammo I had to AAC so they can conduct an evaluation. In the event dead air will charge me for the repairs, I will receive a gift card for the bill from PSA. They ever get you taken care of? Also, seent on the redit https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/received_1495719961219202-2773192.jpg Wondering if the ammo is from the same Lot Very interesting |
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I’d be pretty interested to know what effs up a 55gr projectile so badly that it shwacks a .30 cap.
As far as PSA being shady about it, I live exactly 15 minutes from one of their stores and ranges, and within an hour and a half of most or all of their stores, so you might say I’m local to them. The extent of fuckery that there is no excuse for that I have encountered with them is on a level and type that can’t always be explained simply by volume and sample size. I do like that they have made evil guns more accessible, so I try not to bash them too often anymore, but every year or so I start thinking they’ve turned a corner and give them another chance. Spoiler-they haven’t. They’re just BCA (who I used to be local to) with more volume and aggressive growth. |
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Quoted: I’d be pretty interested to know what effs up a 55gr projectile so badly that it shwacks a .30 cap. As far as PSA being shady about it, I live exactly 15 minutes from one of their stores and ranges, and within an hour and a half of most or all of their stores, so you might say I’m local to them. The extent of fuckery that there is no excuse for that I have encountered with them is on a level and type that can’t always be explained simply by volume and sample size. I do like that they have made evil guns more accessible, so I try not to bash them too often anymore, but every year or so I start thinking they’ve turned a corner and give them another chance. Spoiler-they haven’t. They’re just BCA (who I used to be local to) with more volume and aggressive growth. View Quote PSA is definitely a strange mix of sometimes shady but also good people |
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Quoted: They ever get you taken care of? Also, seent on the redit https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/received_1495719961219202-2773192.jpg Wondering if the ammo is from the same Lot View Quote |
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What do you think of the M4SDK?
I think my next 5.56 can will be that, or an RC2. Can’t decide. |
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Quoted: They wound up sending me 400 rounds to replace my 200 originally purchased. They conducted some testing and determined the ammo was in fact bad. Unfortunately I don't have what batch my ammo came from as I loaded up mags and threw the boxes away. I purchased the ammo shortly after it was released if that means anything. View Quote Probably keep that ammo as nonsuppressed fodder for the time being. |
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Quoted: What do you think of the M4SDK? I think my next 5.56 can will be that, or an RC2. Can’t decide. View Quote I have five M4SD-Ks. It's lighter than the RC2, a little shorter, and I like the dimpling look which is supposed to help with cooling due to the extra surface area. Their site says it's about 2.5 ounces lighter than the current Mod4 actually is. Both are tanks. The new Mod4 baffles are really nice. Low back pressure, great on flash, and a soft shooter. The RC2 is iconic and, though a little older tech, fantastic in its own rights. You can't go wrong either way. Griffin seems to be moving away from the GateLok (QD) line and focusing on their Dual Lok and direct thread lines. |
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Quoted: I have five M4SD-Ks. It's lighter than the RC2, a little shorter, and I like the dimpling look which is supposed to help with cooling due to the extra surface area. Their site says it's about 2.5 ounces lighter than the current Mod4 actually is. Both are tanks. The new Mod4 baffles are really nice. Low back pressure, great on flash, and a soft shooter. The RC2 is iconic and, though a little older tech, fantastic in its own rights. You can't go wrong either way. Griffin seems to be moving away from the GateLok (QD) line and focusing on their Dual Lok and direct thread lines. View Quote We have a new gate lok can to release soon. Its just been busy and tough to get to it. The M4SD-L is pretty nice. The best of the gate lok cans so far in my opinion, but it is tubeless and loses the fluted tube. There is no plan to drop the gate lok cans, but they are an older style of mounting system. We also are doing 1.375x24 accessory mounts in gate lok finally. I didn’t think it was a good idea, but I did use one on a Griffin custom 7075 forged full ambi colt pattern 9mm lower we just prototyped and it was pretty slick. The Bushwhacker .36 was pretty quiet on that- I was running a Colt upper and snapping a can on the A2 was cool. I did have to widen the rear groove .005” on that one to get it to fit though. We will need to add a 9mm device to our muzzle device lineup for it. The 9mm lowers and guns are at least 4 or so months out as we have to metal injection mold some feed ramps and ejector/bolt catch blocks to complete them. We’re going to release full ambi 556 lowers first. Those turned out really awesome. That was a tough part to design (the forging), and the manufacturing is really gee whiz with probing and the geometries are super accurate and well within the USGI print tolerances, which are actually pretty impressively tight for a forging. In the process I learned a lot of functional, working lowers are outside of tolerances. We bought a newer depth laser for $90k to support marking the lowers. Thats our fourth laser engraver at the shop. |
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Quoted: What do you think of the M4SDK? I think my next 5.56 can will be that, or an RC2. Can’t decide. View Quote I made this decision a few years ago while there was a sale on RC2s at my SOT. I’d personally choose the M4SDk unless cloning or equipping an army. I like the Gate-Lok mount better, and its a c-hair shorter/lighter. Performance isn’t divergent enough to quibble about, and with the new baffle, I suspect that backpressure is similar. I might reverse that decision if I were in the habit of actual no-shit cyclic (auto) mag dumps into dirt every week. |
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