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Posted: 3/26/2022 9:08:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I havent seen any at 25 yards when I swap between my 16" and 10.3". when the weather warms up, I am going to put the suppressed vs unsupressed to the test at longer lengths (100, 250/300, and probably 600). sorry I am not much more of a help! Haven't seen any POI shift with which muzzle device? Xeno Brake or Xeno Xero? |
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Posted: 3/26/2022 9:20:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven't seen any POI shift with which muzzle device? Xeno Brake or Xeno Xero? the flash hider. the 16" and 10.3" I mentioned stare a 224 bore MG7 that have no warranty restrictions so I figured why not go with a FH (I hate brakes). I feel that DA markets their keymo system as a more 'hard use' option, while the xeno is more of a 'precision' option. I love the xeno system on my ARs and I think it does a more than adequate job on 'harsh-er' hosts. |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 5:32:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel that DA markets their keymo system as a more 'hard use' option, while the xeno is more of a 'precision' option. I love the xeno system on my ARs and I think it does a more than adequate job on 'harsh-er' hosts. Kind of hard from a company standpoint to proclaim Xeno as a better option when your hard use cans don’t feature modular mounting to change to Xeno. You kind of have to stick with your Keymo guns. It’s not bad, it’s just heavy! |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 5:50:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kind of hard from a company standpoint to proclaim Xeno as a better option when your hard use cans don’t feature modular mounting to change to Xeno. You kind of have to stick with your Keymo guns. It’s not bad, it’s just heavy! I don't think DA is proclaiming one is "better" than the other Just different options. Todd went in depth in this thread between the two. I will say, I got into the NFA game last year and I decided that I wanted 1 QD system for all of my center fire rifle cans. Xeno and keymo were high up on that list. The cost and weight of the keymo was enough to sway me to xeno. The features of the xeno was also very impressive; so it made sense to me to go that route. |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 6:07:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the flash hider. the 16" and 10.3" I mentioned stare a 224 bore MG7 that have no warranty restrictions so I figured why not go with a FH (I hate brakes). I feel that DA markets their keymo system as a more 'hard use' option, while the xeno is more of a 'precision' option. I love the xeno system on my ARs and I think it does a more than adequate job on 'harsh-er' hosts. Agreed actually. I designed the Xeno for hard use as well, but yeah, the KeyMo system is also a thread-to-taper system but it also has the detent clutch plate to further help. It also has more clearance on the muzzle device, so that if there's carbon buildup on it, the back of the can will still pass over it during removal. The Xeno has this as well, just not as much as the KeyMo parts. This is something others have overlooked. Like, a fair bit of carbon buildup will keep a CB inside of a can and you'll have to fight and scrape it to pull it out or it becomes permanently attached. The other thing that makes the Xeno system hard use is the brake doesn't balloon under full auto use like the CB does. This keeps it from acting like a rivet inside the mount after the brake chamber walls get red hot and balloon and keep you from being able to slip the can back off of it after use. On the POI front, you'll always see something change as mass changes. Simply adding a brake on my B14 HMR causes a 1-2 MOA shift. Adding a suppressor moves it 1-2 MOA. Every barrel is different, so you can't point at a mount as single-handedly causing a POI shift unless it's not designed well and messes with bullet flight. This is definitely not the case with these. I personally think you'll have a hard time measuring any change going from a Xero mount to another Xeno brake or flash hider. On the precision front (shot grouping and return-to-zero), this is what the Xeno system specializes in. It's extremely reliable and repeatable. I'd have to look up my experiments on it, but the repeatability of the mean point of impact (return-to-zero) was always within 0.1 MOA across all shot groups. Before you say "but that's not perfect", remember that every shot group has variation too. I was shooting around 1/2" groups and this 0.1 MOA variation between all shot group averages fell well within all of the shot group sizes so statistically it's noise. Todd Magee Dead Air Engineering |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 6:30:15 PM EDT
[#6]
"CB"?
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Posted: 3/28/2022 6:48:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "CB"? 
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Posted: 3/28/2022 7:25:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "CB"? |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 8:01:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks.
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Posted: 3/28/2022 8:15:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the POI front, you'll always see something change as mass changes. Simply adding a brake on my B14 HMR causes a 1-2 MOA shift. Adding a suppressor moves it 1-2 MOA. Every barrel is different, so you can't point at a mount as single-handedly causing a POI shift unless it's not designed well and messes with bullet flight. This is definitely not the case with these. I personally think you'll have a hard time measuring any change going from a Xero mount to another Xeno brake or flash hider. On the precision front (shot grouping and return-to-zero), this is what the Xeno system specializes in. It's extremely reliable and repeatable. I'd have to look up my experiments on it, but the repeatability of the mean point of impact (return-to-zero) was always within 0.1 MOA across all shot groups. Before you say "but that's not perfect", remember that every shot group has variation too. I was shooting around 1/2" groups and this 0.1 MOA variation between all shot group averages fell well within all of the shot group sizes so statistically it's noise. Todd Magee Dead Air Engineering Thanks for the info. I always appreciate your input. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 9:39:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're continually shipping the DA455 HUB version. The DA457 should be in wholesale distribution. I know we've been sending them out. I'll have to look into that. Todd, did you ever find out where the P-series/Wolfman mounts are? I'm still not seeing the DA457s for sale anywhere, not even the Dead Air site. I've got my CC standing by... |
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Posted: 3/30/2022 7:38:07 AM EDT
[#12]
I’m new to the suppressor thing. I have a couple of cans in jail at the moment. What is the benefit of using a QD minute like the Xeno on a precision rifle?
I have a sandman coming which I plan to use on my ARs, and I’m also getting a KGM 30 for my bolt guns. Should I use the xeno for the bolt guns or just go direct thread? |
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Posted: 3/30/2022 8:10:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm new to the suppressor thing. I have a couple of cans in jail at the moment. What is the benefit of using a QD minute like the Xeno on a precision rifle? I have a sandman coming which I plan to use on my ARs, and I'm also getting a KGM 30 for my bolt guns. Should I use the xeno for the bolt guns or just go direct thread? I think the first question you should ask is "What is the benefit of using a taper mount vs direct thread on a precision rifle?" (that will give you something to Google for a while) Then if you decide to use a taper over direct thread, you should be asking "What is the benefit of the Xeno vs the competition's taper mounts on a precision rifle?" |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 3:10:32 PM EDT
[#14]
So I've ordered a pair of Xeno brakes and the Xeno adapter to use with a pair of KAC uppers and a CGS Helios QD Ti - since the can will be in jail for a while, is there a compatible blast deflector to use with these brakes in the interim?
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Posted: 4/7/2022 3:19:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So I've ordered a pair of Xeno brakes and the Xeno adapter to use with a pair of KAC uppers and a CGS Helios QD Ti - since the can will be in jail for a while, is there a compatible blast deflector to use with these brakes in the interim? I used a jk armament smoke stack |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 3:38:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So I've ordered a pair of Xeno brakes and the Xeno adapter to use with a pair of KAC uppers and a CGS Helios QD Ti - since the can will be in jail for a while, is there a compatible blast deflector to use with these brakes in the interim? here is a short list off the top of my head, im sure i missed a few: -JK (as already mentioned) -J mac -Hansohn -torrent i dont recall if deadairs pyro dealio has keymo only or if its 1.375x24; although its made to throw fireballs, and you may not be after that. as long as the rear threading of a diverter has 1.375x24, it will be compatible with your xeno mount. gotta love the 1.375x24 standard baby! |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 3:47:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: here is a short list off the top of my head, im sure i missed a few: -JK (as already mentioned) -J mac -Hansohn -torrent i dont recall if deadairs pyro dealio has keymo only or if its 1.375x24; although its made to throw fireballs, and you may not be after that. as long as the rear threading of a diverter has 1.375x24, it will be compatible with your xeno mount. gotta love the 1.375x24 standard baby! Thanks for the quick responses @emtothedee and @Mesooohoppy - which of these would y'all recommend if I'm mainly looking to be less concussive at my indoor range? Uppers are 11.5 and 14.5 if that matters. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 8:26:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the quick responses @emtothedee and @Mesooohoppy - which of these would y'all recommend if I'm mainly looking to be less concussive at my indoor range? Uppers are 11.5 and 14.5 if that matters. I only have experience with the jk. It works like any other blast shield would that doesn’t have holes in it. I like it because i can also attach parts to it that aid in getting my barrel super duper clean |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 8:49:03 PM EDT
[#19]
I would think any open ended tube would work just about the same. Dont buy the pyro deal, that's designed to throw fireballs.
The torrent has a design at the end of the tube, so I'm not sure if that hurts or helps concussion. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 9:56:14 AM EDT
[#20]
The Pyro can be used as a blast diverter if you use the blast diverter insert, but I do not believe the insert is compatible with Xeno. If I remember correctly, it’s in the “works”.
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Posted: 4/8/2022 6:48:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Apparently I was confused about how these blast diverters work with the Xeno - looks they all require the adapter.
I was hoping for one with LH threads that could thread directly onto the Xeno brake so I could leave the adapter on the can. Does such a thing exist? |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 7:26:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently I was confused about how these blast diverters work with the Xeno - looks they all require the adapter. I was hoping for one with LH threads that could thread directly onto the Xeno brake so I could leave the adapter on the can. Does such a thing exist? if by adapter you mean the xeno mount, then no. you need the mount, the blast shield, and the muzzle device. once you get enough cans, you (likely) wont end up using the blast diverter anyways; and you'll already have the mount ready to go on your new can!! edit: joeboboutfitters currently has the mount for the cheapest on the net (from what ive found). |
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Posted: 4/10/2022 12:23:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want LH threads then Area 419's system can accommodate that in a minimalist package. https://i.imgur.com/NqnTzTy.jpg https://i.imgur.com/vfiVegJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Yq0c4Rs.jpg What's the point? There's no brake to act as a sacrificial blast baffle for the can. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 2:30:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Apparently I was confused about how these blast diverters work with the Xeno - looks they all require the adapter. I was hoping for one with LH threads that could thread directly onto the Xeno brake so I could leave the adapter on the can. Does such a thing exist? I had to use a DA455 Xeno adapter in my JMac X37 blast diverter. That got expensive quick. Though I can also use it on my JMac X37 brake too. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 6:10:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, we'll be making these in a variety of threads! They'll be gradually rolling out in the coming months. We'll support metric to standard threads and also offer them in different muzzle features. You'll also see some industry partners releasing some fun stuff too. ;-) No kidding. That's sexy! I suddenly need a Rex Silentium can! Todd Magee Dead Air Engineering Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, we'll be making these in a variety of threads! They'll be gradually rolling out in the coming months. We'll support metric to standard threads and also offer them in different muzzle features. You'll also see some industry partners releasing some fun stuff too. ;-) No kidding. That's sexy! I suddenly need a Rex Silentium can! Todd Magee Dead Air Engineering Any idea when more mount and adapter options will be coming? Also, I thought it was said the Xeno FH would meet the 16" req on a 14.5" non-SBR upper (pin/weld) but was just informed by my SOT my Noveske 14.5 N4 Recce isn't going to be long enough. No biggie, I have more SBR lowers than short uppers and now have an excuse to SBR the Noveske lower. ETA: never mind on the pin/weld, I'm a dork and missed this. Quoted: Short answer: Most likely. Here's some training I put together for our guys internally: Pin and Weld info: The parts are not pre-drilled for pinning and welding because they may not get the user to 16" on all barrels and we don't want people to get in trouble without thinking it through. Depending on the length of the threads on the barrel, they may or may not get the user to 16"+. It's important that they do the math. They need to add the barrel length to the muzzle device length, and then subtract the length of their threads. (Barrel Length + Muzzle Device) Length of Threads on Barrel = Pin and weld length Typically, the Omni brake will fall short on a 14.5" barrel, and the A1 FH will be super close. The thick shim will usually push people over if needed. A1 FH example: 14.5" + 2.16" = 16.66" (subtract barrel threads from this). In this case, the barrel threads will need to be less than .66" to keep it over 16". Omni Brake example: 14.5" + 2.09" = 16.59" In this case, the threads will need to be under .59". They'll most likely need a shim since AR barrel threads are typically .60-.66" long. Todd Magee Dead Air Engineering |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 4:28:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Would the LMT brake offer more protection for the suppressor than the deadair xeno brake since it allows more space before the baffle?
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been able to inspect some of the first articles coming off the machines and they look awesome. We'll have several variants showing up soon. It's mostly a matter of getting them nitrided, packaged, and shipped into the distribution channels. The 11/16-24 Xeno's are a little further down the list. ETA: LMT has their Xeno brake available. They also have a new can coming out. I'm surprised you nerds haven't found this yet.  https://lmt-at.com/shop/ https://lmt-at.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Reg-min-mount-pic-3-1536x1025.jpg |
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Posted: 4/24/2022 12:29:39 AM EDT
[#27]
anyone put a xeno adapter on a helios qd yet?
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Posted: 4/24/2022 8:09:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: anyone put a xeno adapter on a helios qd yet? When mine gets out of jail I will probably do this. |
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Posted: 5/3/2022 9:20:46 AM EDT
[#29]
*deleted*
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Posted: 5/3/2022 9:22:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Apparently, the tapers don't mate up with each other.
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want LH threads then Area 419's system can accommodate that in a minimalist package. https://i.imgur.com/NqnTzTy.jpg https://i.imgur.com/vfiVegJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Yq0c4Rs.jpg |
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Posted: 5/3/2022 10:49:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When mine gets out of jail I will probably do this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: anyone put a xeno adapter on a helios qd yet? When mine gets out of jail I will probably do this. Same. Actually, I'll try to remember to take the adapter next time I go for visitation just to see how it all fits together. When I was checking out the can during the transfer, it seems the QD adapter that came with it is threaded identically on both ends (male/female) so maybe I won't need the CGS adapter with the Xeno adapter. |
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Posted: 5/4/2022 8:02:28 AM EDT
[#32]
@Mageever
Any chance we might see some Xeno Xero muzzle devices in 9/16x24? Seems like it would be a good option for the purpose built lightweight muzzle device. I'm outfitting some of my suppressed hunting rifles with Xeros, on lightweight barrel profiles you often don't have enough diameter for 5/8x24+shoulder, and 1/2x28 on a 7mm or .308 doesn't leave much meat under the thread root. |
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Posted: 5/4/2022 12:07:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Mageever Any chance we might see some Xeno Xero muzzle devices in 9/16x24? Seems like it would be a good option for the purpose built lightweight muzzle device. I'm outfitting some of my suppressed hunting rifles with Xeros, on lightweight barrel profiles you often don't have enough diameter for 5/8x24+shoulder, and 1/2x28 on a 7mm or .308 doesn't leave much meat under the thread root. I'd like to. It isn't in the pipeline, but it's the next logical Xeno Xero for sure! |
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Posted: 5/4/2022 2:40:50 PM EDT
[#34]
@Mageever
Are there any new Xeno brake or flash hider designs coming, alongside the two styles you have now (not including the Zero)? Or will you be just leaving new brake and flash hider designs to the 3rd parties for now? Just curious, not complaining. The designs you currently have are good ones. |
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Posted: 5/4/2022 2:56:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Dead air needs to focus on their RMAs instead of pushing new products.
I am now going on 7 months for an RMA on my 26mm adapter for my wolverine. Every time I reach out I get the same response of should be in a few weeks. They did send me a different thread adapter 1/2x 28 so I can use it on my ar15 in the mean time. But I have much better suppressors for my 1/2x28. I bought that suppressor specially for my m92. |
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Posted: 5/5/2022 11:27:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: @Mageever Are there any new Xeno brake or flash hider designs coming, alongside the two styles you have now (not including the Zero)? Or will you be just leaving new brake and flash hider designs to the 3rd parties for now? Just curious, not complaining. The designs you currently have are good ones. Oh yeaaahhhh.... cool stuff already in production. Quoted: Dead air needs to focus on their RMAs instead of pushing new products. I am now going on 7 months for an RMA on my 26mm adapter for my wolverine. Every time I reach out I get the same response of should be in a few weeks. They did send me a different thread adapter 1/2x 28 so I can use it on my ar15 in the mean time. But I have much better suppressors for my 1/2x28. I bought that suppressor specially for my m92. I understand your frustration, but please realize my product development engineering resources are not always the same as the plant's operations. People outside manufacturing often don't get this and we've done all that we can to help them. We've seen bad batches we refuse to send out and also vendors just not being able to get work done due to lack of materials, manpower, machines, etc. In fact, we're changing some key things on how we deal with our production from all of this. We have some big structural changes going on (like, literally a building in Utah) that will help address this. So your wish has come true to a degree. I've worked less on R&D in the last year and some of you don't have new products you want because I'm having to help operations and get more staff on board. |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 3:20:30 PM EDT
[#37]
I can’t get the Xeno adapter to thread into my brand new Vox S. It hits resistance after a turn or two.
I’ve cleaned and lubed the threads. I’ve tried 3 Xeno adapters. The Vox threads look good and the Direct Thread adapter threads on just fine. Also, I just threaded on a Rearden adapter to the Vox and it went on like butter. Something is wrong with the Xenos. **Ok got another one and added some anti-seize. It threaded on nicely. |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 12:32:20 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh yeaaahhhh.... cool stuff already in production. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @Mageever Are there any new Xeno brake or flash hider designs coming, alongside the two styles you have now (not including the Zero)? Or will you be just leaving new brake and flash hider designs to the 3rd parties for now? Just curious, not complaining. The designs you currently have are good ones. Oh yeaaahhhh.... cool stuff already in production. Well that sucks I just invested in 3 brake mounts.  I really want a three prong mount. 
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Posted: 5/13/2022 6:08:42 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh yeaaahhhh.... cool stuff already in production. I understand your frustration, but please realize my product development engineering resources are not always the same as the plant's operations. People outside manufacturing often don't get this and we've done all that we can to help them. We've seen bad batches we refuse to send out and also vendors just not being able to get work done due to lack of materials, manpower, machines, etc. In fact, we're changing some key things on how we deal with our production from all of this. We have some big structural changes going on (like, literally a building in Utah) that will help address this. So your wish has come true to a degree. I've worked less on R&D in the last year and some of you don't have new products you want because I'm having to help operations and get more staff on board. You guys need an anesthesiologist? |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 9:56:51 AM EDT
[#40]
How about a M18x1.5 version? I have an 8.6 build looming in the horizon.
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Posted: 5/13/2022 1:14:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about a M18x1.5 version? I have an 8.6 build looming in the horizon. Oooow |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 5:05:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about a M18x1.5 version? I have an 8.6 build looming in the horizon. Same. Will there be one? Absolutely need a xeno FH/MB in m18x1.5 even a xeno zero would work for me. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 5:55:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same. Will there be one? Absolutely need a xeno FH/MB in m18x1.5 even a xeno zero would work for me. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How about a M18x1.5 version? I have an 8.6 build looming in the horizon. Same. Will there be one? Absolutely need a xeno FH/MB in m18x1.5 even a xeno zero would work for me. Not to deviate too far but is m18x1.5 a common pitch? Why was this selected? |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 6:38:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to deviate too far but is m18x1.5 a common pitch? Why was this selected? M18X1.5 is a thread pattern used by AI on their 338 rifles. Weird choice for sure. Somebody could've thought that trough more before building 8.6 barrels with that thread. Yes, we've stated we're are planning on some "big bore" Xeno stuff so think I can safely state this is thread is in the mix. I'm awaiting parts now! |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 6:40:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys need an anesthesiologist? Lol. Pappas does. If you're ever in the office ask him about his trip to the dentist. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 7:33:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Pappas does. If you're ever in the office ask him about his trip to the dentist. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You guys need an anesthesiologist? Lol. Pappas does. If you're ever in the office ask him about his trip to the dentist. That be a good one to ask him at the weekly DA Q&A! Lol |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 9:32:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M18X1.5 is a thread pattern used by AI on their 338 rifles. Weird choice for sure. Somebody could've thought that trough more before building 8.6 barrels with that thread. Yes, we've stated we're are planning on some "big bore" Xeno stuff so think I can safely state this is thread is in the mix. I'm awaiting parts now! Weird Good info though |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 5:34:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That be a good one to ask him at the weekly DA Q&A! Lol This might be a podcast thing. Lol. I'll try and talk him into it. |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 1:08:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M18X1.5 is a thread pattern used by AI on their 338 rifles. Weird choice for sure. Somebody could've thought that trough more before building 8.6 barrels with that thread. Yes, we've stated we're are planning on some "big bore" Xeno stuff so think I can safely state this is thread is in the mix. I'm awaiting parts now! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not to deviate too far but is m18x1.5 a common pitch? Why was this selected? M18X1.5 is a thread pattern used by AI on their 338 rifles. Weird choice for sure. Somebody could've thought that trough more before building 8.6 barrels with that thread. Yes, we've stated we're are planning on some "big bore" Xeno stuff so think I can safely state this is thread is in the mix. I'm awaiting parts now! |
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Posted: 6/19/2022 12:24:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Anyone with any leads on the Xeno adapters for The wolfman? Everyone I try to look for the 457, it’s all OOS! Just picked up the can, and can’t wait to shoot but need that adapter to get it all finished!
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