Was thinking that as well, bur SiCo has that SPEQ thing so going Omega.

Just the heat generated in a rifle can is enough to bring a HG up to cooking temps if you run it some.

Would machine gun applications be likely to bring the temperature over the "age hardening" temp? Would that ruin the heat treat? Would you lose a lot of hardness or yield strength?

Interesting.  Was planning on a Sandman S in the near future but may go with the Vox instead.

Correct. I do the same think with a 5.45 AK. Spray it down with a hose/warm water, and I let it air dry.

Come on, EA, make a mod length version of this can.  Just do eeet!

the only thing keeping a Trash Panda from burning a hole in my wallet right now is this dilemma. Your mount looks great, but I have gone all Key Mo with SiCo and DA cans. Hoping this helps

Some photos of Vox production EA shared on FB

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Amazing pictures, do want.

And another.  I'll be buying one as soon as they are available.

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Why are there two bands of purple/blue in the cans?

Discoloration from welding the baffles together to form the outer tube.

Badass

This has piqued my interest

@HansohnBrothers

When do you expect these to be available for purchase?

Awesome.  Thank you!

Was there ever any info release as far as the baffle design and back-pressure? I noticed the dB numbers in testing were similar to DeadAir which is designed to have better performance at the ear versus muzzle (Low-Backpressure Design).

@kedminster
@HansohnBrothers

PSA:  These are now available for pre order on Hansohn Brothers website.  Just got my order in

Cool. Added mine to cart, not available

Update: Order placed!!!  

Annnnnnnnnnd, I'm in! I went with the direct thread. Is there something I'm not seeing about purchasing the VOX with the Key-Mo? Seems like it should be cheaper than it is? Usually you save a few bucks by purchasing the package but here you pay more?

How many of you are going to be buying Q's new omega qd setup for use on this???

Also I would like to see Energetic Armament make a bigger OD subgun can... Something coming in around 1.625" or bigger for 9mm & 45cal modular/wipe cap/light & short, Sico, Rugged, Griffin 3 lug/piston compatible...

I will probably use Q's Plan B on mine to cut weight.

That would be a really light weight setup...

Just had a thought. What if Energetic took their Vox can and wire edm it out to 9mm or .45 cal, making something like a tubeless hybrid,  maybe 11.4oz. +-1oz.,  maybe make a bushing to fit other companies 3 lug mounts or make their own 3 lug mount to fit the omega/hybrid thread pattern (which people could buy to use with their hybrid cans with 3 lug)???  Could still be used on 5.56-7.62 with minimal effect (slightly higher db's, maybe), still full auto rated, no barrel restrictions...

It would give them another suppressor in their lineup. Should compete with the omega 9k, omega 45k, hybrid, and even Dead Air Wolf9sd.  I would think that they are wire edm'ing their welded cores so programming in to open up the bore a little more should be relatively inexpensive, also they might need to change the end cap slightly for wipes... Just an idea.

Nope. I didn't realize the QD version was just an Omega Key-Mo Adapter threaded in. Already have tons of accessories for my Omega (thanks to BigWaylon's Omega thread!) I had Hansohn change mine to a direct-thread as well.

I am going with a Plan-B setup for my 13" SCAR. Chose this over the Trash Panda because of the material no concern with the Ti limitation of the Panda. With the Plab-B I should be an inch shorter than the Trash Panda and only around an ounce heavier.

I ordered direct thread as well.  Plan B wasn't an option and it only saved $25 for no mount at all.  $25 for a Ti direct thread mount isn't bad.

Yeah, I already have a Ti mount, and so after I thought about it, getting the serialed tube as cheap as possible made the most sense- especially paying "sales & use" tax in WA, plus dealer transfer fee.

All of my cans have a permanent host firearm, the Vox will be my "bounce around" silencer that uses my YHM, AAC, Key-Mo, Direct Thread adapters and goes from host to host, or let friends borrow, etc.

I’ll bite on this and try to keep the nerd discussion going:

I’ll preface with saying I work in a different industry but similar field of interest. Any time I can pick the brain of someone willing to discuss these type of in depth topics I try to ask some questions. Just like to get  a feel for what different disciplines deal with.

1. Strength calculations for a suppressor, do you consider it as a sort of modified pressure vessel? I would assume since it is not a sealed system that you are not held to ASME pressure vessel code. Since there has been great talk about strength of materials at elevated temperatures I’m wondering what  kind of design margin/safety factor are you looking for?
2. What level of CFD goes into the initial design of a baffle system? Most of the talk in here has been about material properties at operating temps, anything you can comment to on the baffle design of this can?
3. Great photos of the automated welding, much respect for designing and using your own system for that process. What kind of weld inspection are you performing, NDI or destructive, any troubleshooting you had to work through as far as internal porosity?

I understand if you can’t answer some of these in too much detail based on potential disclosure of  trade secrets. I just like to hear technical discussion from guys in the industry of one of my favorite hobbies.

Foe those of you that have shot these, do they sound similar to an Omega on a 5.56?

Maybe if you buy the Key-Mo version it comes with a Keymount Muzzle Brake in the package? Ah I see now, it says on the site it does.

*Vox S w/ Dead Air™ Key-MO™ & 5/8-24 muzzle brake– MSRP $995 (SKU: EA05)

So using Hansohn's pricing, for another $225 you get both the mount and the QD adapter. Better deal than I thought.

Great questions!

1. Yes, we consider the instantaneous peak pressure based on a number of factors. We calculate as though the bore to the blast chamber was closed and the full volume of gas was trapped in the chambered cartridge, barrel bore and blast chamber. We used SAAMI published data for pressures and volumes. Safety factor >2 at 1k F
2. We have not used CFD for modeling the response of the silencer. To be perfectly honest, the multi-physics CFD required to analyze a design is beyond our resources at this time. We could use a simplified gas model however once you get into multiphase (super-tran-sub sonic) flow and add thermodynamics (cans are a heat transfer device) to that it requires some serious computational horsepower, and more importantly, PhD level experience, to model and interpret. Our baffle & stack design was derived empirically with design-build-test-repeat until we achieved an attenuation, tone and mass that we felt was the right optimization. I have a stack of prototype cans that did not make the cut!
3. We have validated our weld process in several ways. We developed a HASS (highly accelerated stress screening) process to simulate thousands of heat/cool cycles then shot the HASS cycled samples. The silencers were then inspected with dye penetrate to look for any cracking and then sectioned and inspected through the cross section of the welds. C300 is fairly simple to weld and very tolerant however all parts are solvent cleaned prior to welding and all welds are argon backed to protect the root. We also took the rather unusual step of using high explosives (det cord) through the bore to shock stress the welds to failure to make sure we tore base metal. I realize this explosive testing is very unconventional but that is how innovation happens! Not going to lie, it is also fun to use high explosives to test anything ;)

I love this thread.

Agree

Thank you for the well thought out response, some really great information in there especially for anyone researching pros and cons of cans. With so many great choices on the market right now, a lot of decisions boil down to which manufacturer you would like to support more. It means a lot to have a manufacturer with presence on suppressor forums answering technical questions and showing the kind of research and decisions that go into designing a new can.

1. Very straightforward approach and makes sense. Good to know you have a 2:1 SF, that may be good information to have on your website to show consumers the kind of strength that is designed into their can. Gives people a straight answer that the suppressor can "handle 2 times the amount of pressure that it would ever normally see."

2. Yeah, I haven't had much opportunity to practice or apply CFD outside of the bare basics taught in school. That's mainly why I was asking because as "simple" as expanding gas in a gun muffler sounds, I could see it being a huge pain in the ass to model correctly. I think it would be interesting or potentially valuable to buy a license for CFD software and have someone on your team take a crack at a high level model. You would then be able to refine that model based on the 1st hand knowledge gained from your iterative prototype testing data. It would be interesting over time to take a design, run it through CFD and see how close that becomes to real world testing results. I was always surprised how quickly we could hack something together that would be useful in the long run for eliminating the first few prototype designs. I very much agree with the approach of design build test and repeat. Nothing more valuable than real world data collected first hand. That's all just coming from some work with structural FEA and getting to strain gauge my own designs at a previous job. It was really rewarding to be able to adjust an FEA model and see what generates accurate results with real world data to compare it to.

3. I am new to a HASS process, thank you for sharing that. Very cool to artificially "age" and stress the components and then test them as if they are half way or through a lifetime of rounds fired through it. That sounds much easier than trying to do a conventional lifetime cycle test.
The best response that I did not expect is det cord testing a can for ultimate failure and weld inspection. That's just cool. You can't be upset with a day at the office when explosive testing is involved. This is why I am happy I asked this question, learn new cool shit all the time.

Thanks again for being active here and answering questions. If I come up with anymore I know where go to ask them.

It's been 2 weeks... not that I'm excited or anything

Yeah, interesting tech speak

Because everybody likes explosives:

https://imgur.com/e55hK9i

https://imgur.com/1Atvh1A

Background: I am a licensed blaster and member of the International Society of Explosive Engineers (ISEE). We hold a Federal Explosives Lisc. (and a bunch of MA lisc. & permits) with our other company and do a variety of explosives and weapons related engineering R&D. Don't try this at home kids...

One thing to clarify. the 2:1 SF is absolute worst case (300RUM with a can @ 1k deg. F). Most of the SF's are in the 3:1 (308 Win SBR @1K F) to 5:1 (5.56, 8" SBR, 1K F) range. SF changes with cartridge, barrel length and silencer temp.

“Downvote for no video” lol

One thing I thought I'd never see in this forum. Very cool stuff y'all got going on.

Thank you!

Absolutely, thanks for clarifying that as well. This is also good to know as I continue to build my 300RUM full auto rig and look to suppress it up to 1000F.

You too, huh?



In all seriousness, that looks like an amazing suppressor and I appreciate all of the technical info and insight. I definitely think it's next on the list, when the time comes.

Awesome Karl!  I'm guessing that's you. ;-)

Thanks Todd, yes this is me Karl. Looking forward to chatting at SHOT again this year! Steve and Andrew will be with me as we got in and have a booth to man this year. Looking forward to introducing you to them.