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Posted: 10/14/2017 1:24:38 AM EDT
[#1]
It used to be that individuals were longer. Now that trusts are so popular you not only need legal review but the error rate has probably shot straight up due to additional RP forms.
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Posted: 10/14/2017 11:26:24 AM EDT
[#2]
With the added work of a trust (minimal imo if you only have one or two people) and the responsible persons form, and legal review of the trust it will never be as quick as an individual, but it should be a negligible difference not weeks or months longer.
I wonder how the examiners split the paperwork. Grab a few off the pile, you get some trusts some individuals? Or do certain examiners do individuals and others do trusts? If it is the second way it would explain the difference. If every form in your pile takes 20 min longer than the other guys pile, that 20 min each would stack up quick. Even if the forms are split evenly, but have a lawyer check them first before being added to the pile it would add up. |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 6:01:28 PM EDT
[#3]
I opt to use a trust so my close friends and family can also use them without me.
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Posted: 10/14/2017 9:06:59 PM EDT
[#4]
I haven't paid much attention to the times lately... I never had anyone else on my trust, but are the individual transfers going faster now?
I might have a form 1 to send off for an SBR soon. If trusts now take longer with more hassle I'll probably just go individual. |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 9:55:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Yes, it goes back and forth. When individuals get slow, people use trusts. When trusts get slow, people use individuals.
I've thought about transferring a silencer to myself as an individual, then to my trust just to get it faster... |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 10:53:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, it goes back and forth. When individuals get slow, people use trusts. Sheesh trusts get slow, people use individuals. I've thought about transferring a silencer to myself as an individual, then to my trust just to get it faster... |
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Posted: 10/15/2017 1:03:06 PM EDT
[#7]
I already have three cans and an SBR on a trust, I have no desire to mess with those. I think any further stamps will be as an individual.
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Posted: 10/15/2017 8:53:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I already have three cans and an SBR on a trust, I have no desire to mess with those. I think any further stamps will be as an individual. Honestly I only did it that way because of the timeframe |
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Posted: 10/15/2017 9:55:27 PM EDT
[#9]
According to the folks covering the Silencershop Barcode advent, the backlog that existed would be cleared in 2-3 months. This was beginning of Aug 2017 when stated. So less than a month less for all the pending transfers to clear up through Aug 2017 submissions.
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Posted: 10/15/2017 9:57:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been contemplating the same thing, but the thought of that $200 just to go to my trust could be used on another can or sbr. Buy every month or few and you have items approved more often. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes, it goes back and forth. When individuals get slow, people use trusts. Sheesh trusts get slow, people use individuals. I've thought about transferring a silencer to myself as an individual, then to my trust just to get it faster... This whole process blows. I don't want to have an MG that's 90% of what I want while I wait for a year on the second stupid stamp. I'll probably just be patient and file for it on the trust to keep everything registered to one place. 
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Posted: 10/16/2017 1:28:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to the folks covering the Silencershop Barcode advent, the backlog that existed would be cleared in 2-3 months. This was beginning of Aug 2017 when stated. So less than a month less for all the pending transfers to clear up through Aug 2017 submissions. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 1:57:29 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Silencer Shop has been using the bar code since July 11, so we should be seeing those approvals coming back any day now. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 2:28:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh? Trusts are still in September...unless you mean individuals..? I would say Trusts submitted now seems like they might be back by late 2018...   
I keep putting off a Form 1 SBR build as well as a Form 4 suppressor purchase (from Hansohn Brothers  ) under my Trust... UGH. Things sure as hell aren't getting any better.*
Stupid NFA and stupid 41F. 
*Not to mention the hassle of gathering up prints/photos/forms from three co-trustees - my wife, my dad (in OH) and my brother (in GA until Feb. and then VT after that). |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 3:57:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Here are todays plots from NFA tracker.
Trusts:  Attached FileIndividual:  Attached FileTrusts and Individual together:  Attached FileIt's astonishing how fast the approval times are plummeting for individual transfers. I'm sure SilencerShops efforts have something to do with this. It also suggests that the hold up on transfers is not data entry. I'm a trust fanboy, even post 41f, but I've started doing individual transfers because of the delay in doing a trust. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 4:16:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here are todays plots from NFA tracker. Trusts: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/6794/Screen_Shot_2017-10-16_at_10-334580.JPG Individual: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/6794/Screen_Shot_2017-10-16_at_10-334581.JPG Trusts and Individual together: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/6794/Screen_Shot_2017-10-16_at_10-334582.JPG It's astonishing how fast the approval times are plummeting for individual transfers. I'm sure SilencerShops efforts have something to do with this. It also suggests that the hold up on transfers is not data entry. I'm a trust fanboy, even post 41f, but I've started doing individual transfers because of the delay in doing a trust. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 4:40:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Im going to bite the bullet and keep buying them on my trust just so when I pass the transfer to my wife or daughter will be much easier.
Time will get better on the Trust F1/F4. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 5:48:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Silencer Shop has been using the bar code since July 11, so we should be seeing those approvals coming back any day now. I have a Form 1 individual pending from June 26th. nothing yet on it. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 5:55:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Form 4 trust. I'm the only one on it.
Check cashed December 15. Still waiting. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 6:07:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Form 4 trust. I'm the only one on it. Check cashed December 15. Still waiting. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 6:55:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uhhh the ATF is working in May right now, that's a bit off from mid July.... I have a Form 1 individual pending from June 26th. nothing yet on it. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 9:40:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It used to be that individuals were longer. Now that trusts are so popular you not only need legal review but the error rate has probably shot straight up due to additional RP forms. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 10:48:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious, when were individual F4s taking longer? Had a F4 submission as an individual took 9 weeks, about 3 months before 41p/f was even announced. Trust F4s around that time were taking 4-5 months. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 9:23:28 PM EDT
[#23]
individual, mailed in the week of 5-13-17, approved 10-6-17, shop called yesterday, said come and get it
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Posted: 10/19/2017 10:05:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
individual, mailed in the week of 5-13-17, approved 10-6-17, shop called yesterday, said come and get it I bet it will be summer next year before I get my stamp. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:57:27 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, it goes back and forth. When individuals get slow, people use trusts. When trusts get slow, people use individuals. I've thought about transferring a silencer to myself as an individual, then to my trust just to get it faster... |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 4:05:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Lots of withering daisies in this thread. None of the good reasons to file as a trust become bad reasons just because a couple months get tacked onto the waiting period.
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Posted: 10/20/2017 4:24:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of withering daisies in this thread. None of the good reasons to file as a trust become bad reasons just because a couple months get tacked onto the waiting period. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 4:59:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Literally nobody said that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Literally nobody said that. Originally Posted By Withering Daisies: I think any further stamps will be as an individual. If trusts now take longer with more hassle I'll probably just go individual. I have everything on a trust but just filed a form 4 as an individual. I'm a trust fanboy, even post 41f, but I've started doing individual transfers because of the delay in doing a trust. My next NFA purchase will be individual, wish I would have done this for my last purchase. And this is why my next one will be on a individual form 4, I have one that went pending on 6 Jun 17. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 6:38:38 PM EDT
[#29]
You can water that crazy-ass quote tree all you want, but nobody said that the good reasons to file as a trust become bad reasons.
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Posted: 10/20/2017 8:34:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can water that crazy-ass quote tree all you want, but nobody said that the good reasons to file as a trust become bad reasons. |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 1:24:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are confused. Nowhere did I allege anyone else said that. I said that. Too many pairs of panties are getting wadded up by a couple-month-delay. NFA is a long-term game. If a trust made sense before, it still makes sense now. If you're a logical person, you don't jump to the Individual boat just to save 90 days of waiting for something that will likely be owned in perpetuity. |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 2:04:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think what all these people you quoted are saying is that, getting their can faster(I think your 90 day number is WAYYYYYY to low) may outweigh the advantages a trust offers. |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 2:29:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Not sure how many people feel like I do, but the number one reason I went the trust route was to get around prints, pictures, and leo sign off. With 41F, those reasons are negated.
Now I still have been going the trust rout, mostly bc I just want everything uniform, but other than my wife being able to possess my NFA items without me, I don't see much benefit. I'm seriously considering filing as individual for the yet to be submitted form 4 on my trash panda. I've got form 4s (trusts) pending from December 2016 and January 2017 and it makes me sick that I don't have my suppressors in hand. Never mind the forms that went pending in May, and most recently in September (didn't realize individuals were so far ahead). I'm just trying to forget about those. This just feels like a clever way to keep people from owning suppressors. It's absolutely ridiculous. |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 4:46:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure how many people feel like I do, but the number one reason I went the trust route was to get around prints, pictures, and leo sign off. With 41F, those reasons are negated. Now I still have been going the trust rout, mostly bc I just want everything uniform, but other than my wife being able to possess my NFA items without me, I don't see much benefit. I'm seriously considering filing as individual for the yet to be submitted form 4 on my trash panda. I've got form 4s (trusts) pending from December 2016 and January 2017 and it makes me sick that I don't have my suppressors in hand. Never mind the forms that went pending in May, and most recently in September (didn't realize individuals were so far ahead). I'm just trying to forget about those. This just feels like a clever way to keep people from owning suppressors. It's absolutely ridiculous. |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 6:16:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO, there are really no disadvantages to owning NFA firearms as an individual as opposed to a trust. People have been doing so for 83 years. With the only exception being to sharing your NFA stuff with your father, brother, cousin, sister-in-law, etc., the perceived benefits of a trust also apply to individual ownership. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not sure how many people feel like I do, but the number one reason I went the trust route was to get around prints, pictures, and leo sign off. With 41F, those reasons are negated. Now I still have been going the trust rout, mostly bc I just want everything uniform, but other than my wife being able to possess my NFA items without me, I don't see much benefit. I'm seriously considering filing as individual for the yet to be submitted form 4 on my trash panda. I've got form 4s (trusts) pending from December 2016 and January 2017 and it makes me sick that I don't have my suppressors in hand. Never mind the forms that went pending in May, and most recently in September (didn't realize individuals were so far ahead). I'm just trying to forget about those. This just feels like a clever way to keep people from owning suppressors. It's absolutely ridiculous. |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 6:35:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also asset protection in the event of a lawsuit or divorce. I made damn sure my machine gun is owned by my trust. For silencers worth hundreds, not several thousands, of dollars...eh, I could be convinced that filling as an individual would be worth it to save four months. |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 6:41:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Having dealt with my dad's collection following his untimely death, I have continued using my same 2 trusts for NFA. I believe it will be easier for my beneficiaries to have all my NFA toys on trusts, than split between 2 trusts and individual. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also asset protection in the event of a lawsuit or divorce. I made damn sure my machine gun is owned by my trust. For silencers worth hundreds, not several thousands, of dollars...eh, I could be convinced that filling as an individual would be worth it to save four months. My first SBR was as an individual, then I put several things on my dad's trust, then I created my own trust which now has four things on it.
For me, everything henceforth will be on my own trust. If the wait time is a big deal, I'll do it as an individual and then to my trust from there. I really do like the benefits of a trust. But as I sit here waiting on a machine gun I bought 13 months ago, and I'm watching individual forms come pouring in, it sucks. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 1:35:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO, there are really no disadvantages to owning NFA firearms as an individual as opposed to a trust. People have been doing so for 83 years. With the only exception being to sharing your NFA stuff with your father, brother, cousin, sister-in-law, etc., the perceived benefits of a trust also apply to individual ownership. • A trust allows you to pass the items to multiple people upon your death. If you own an NFA item as an individual, it can only be Form 5'd to one heir. • A trust avoids the situation where you don't die, but become incapacitated. This could be due to illness, car wreck, prison, etc. If you own an NFA item as an individual, you're fucked. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 4:18:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But as I sit here waiting on a machine gun I bought 13 months ago, and I'm watching individual forms come pouring in, it sucks.
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Posted: 10/23/2017 6:15:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are confused. Nowhere did I allege anyone else said that. I said that. Too many pairs of panties are getting wadded up by a couple-month-delay. NFA is a long-term game. If a trust made sense before, it still makes sense now. If you're a logical person, you don't jump to the Individual boat just to save 90 days of waiting for something that will likely be owned in perpetuity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You can water that crazy-ass quote tree all you want, but nobody said that the good reasons to file as a trust become bad reasons. Trust made sense when I got it, but it no longer does. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 7:32:24 PM EDT
[#41]
I went with a Trust and just plan to add trustees later on. I put myself as the sole trustee initially so that I wouldn’t have to bother with having other people sign the document in the presence of a notary. I wasn’t really concerned with the fingerprint and photo aspect of it since silencer shop makes it so easy to take care of all of that.
I know it’s going to take a long time. Maybe I’ll get it by next Christmas. I’m tempted to buy a second can just so I can get two at same time. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 10:34:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are many more exceptions than one. Two off the top of my head: • A trust allows you to pass the items to multiple people upon your death. If you own an NFA item as an individual, it can only be Form 5'd to one heir. • A trust avoids the situation where you don't die, but become incapacitated. This could be due to illness, car wreck, prison, etc. If you own an NFA item as an individual, you're fucked. |
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