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Posted: 3/19/2015 9:45:20 AM EDT
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I understand they aren’t popular due to cycling issues.
In theory could you just lighten the bolt, buffer, and spring for it to work? |
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Quoted:
I understand they aren’t popular due to cycling issues. In theory could you just lighten the bolt, buffer, and spring for it to work? Short answer? No. People have found much better options for subsonic ammo in the AR15 platform. 5.56 can be done, but, it is not shown to be any more effective than 22LR. Think about it 40gr 22lr vs 55gr 5.56? Both moving at the same speed? Commercial 5.56 subsonic is a buck a round or more? TRG |
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you can have .223 subsonic and change internal parts to allow it to cycle but then all you really have is a .22LR, in which case just get a .22LR upper and use a .22LR suppressor, way cheaper.
if you want an effective subsonic AR15 platform go 300 blackout, at least youre getting a large effective round that is still subsonic, granted soft body armor will still stop it. |
| A lot of people say it's the same as 22, but I disagree with that. A 40 grain blunt projectile at 950 FPS is very different from 80 or 90 grain BTHP projectile at 950 FPS, both in terms of energy and in terms of accuracy at distance. That being said, it's really not worth your time to make it cycle in an AR-15. The guys who are serious about subsonic .223 are using bolt guns and loading very long projectiles. |
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With out getting into the why.
Yes it can be done with out much trouble. Load heavy bullets, 75, 77,80,90 gr pills. Use faster pistol powders and very light buffer spring. It will take some tinkering, but not a big deal. let us know if you do go this route. Want to see what powder you end up using. I'm thinking uniqe or similar should be a ticket. Maybe even a trail boss? |
| There was some dude (clown) on this forum a ways back that was shouting from the roof top about how he'd developed a subsonic load that would cycle... Of course he refused to give details because he was planning to get rich off of it... Guess that didn't work out for him. 223 is just the wrong cartridge to make subsonic & semi-auto compatible in a firearm that's also meant to reliably shoot supersonic ammo. There's a reason 300blk exists. |
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Quoted:
With out getting into the why. Yes it can be done with out much trouble. Load heavy bullets, 75, 77,80,90 gr pills. Use faster pistol powders and very light buffer spring. It will take some tinkering, but not a big deal. let us know if you do go this route. Want to see what powder you end up using. I'm thinking uniqe or similar should be a ticket. Maybe even a trail boss? It's been a long time since I pursued subsonic 556. One of the issue was the fact that powder needs to burn, not flash. In a 556 308 case, some powders would lay flat, or bunch up and instead of a slow expansion, you had an instantaneous flash that resulted in a detonation or inconsistent round stability. Even in .308, it was often common to add fillers to make a 'full' case instead of a flash-prone cartridge with wild POI. 22LR is still a better option for the application. TRG |
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Quoted:
It's been a long time since I pursued subsonic 556. One of the issue was the fact that powder needs to burn, not flash. In a 556 case, some powders would lay flat, or bunch up and instead of a slow expansion, you had an instantaneous flash that resulted in a detonation or inconsistent round stability. Even in .308, it was often common to add fillers to make a 'full' case instead of a flash-prone cartridge with wild POI. 22LR is still a better option for the application. TRG Quoted:
Quoted:
With out getting into the why. Yes it can be done with out much trouble. Load heavy bullets, 75, 77,80,90 gr pills. Use faster pistol powders and very light buffer spring. It will take some tinkering, but not a big deal. let us know if you do go this route. Want to see what powder you end up using. I'm thinking uniqe or similar should be a ticket. Maybe even a trail boss? It's been a long time since I pursued subsonic 556. One of the issue was the fact that powder needs to burn, not flash. In a 556 case, some powders would lay flat, or bunch up and instead of a slow expansion, you had an instantaneous flash that resulted in a detonation or inconsistent round stability. Even in .308, it was often common to add fillers to make a 'full' case instead of a flash-prone cartridge with wild POI. 22LR is still a better option for the application. TRG Dont have any problem in 308, 7.62x54, 35 rem, 30-06 shooting light loads using unique and trail boss with out any kind of filler. Powder does burn, just not at the slow rate of rifle powders. Never wanted to mess with subsonic 223, but to each his own. have you actually loaded any light 223s? |
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Trailboss powder works great. It fills the case up nicely. I am shooting cast bullets of my own make for cheaper than what I can buy .22lr for, thanks to the hoarders. Quoted:
It's been a long time since I pursued subsonic 556. One of the issue was the fact that powder needs to burn, not flash. In a 556 case, some powders would lay flat, or bunch up and instead of a slow expansion, you had an instantaneous flash that resulted in a detonation or inconsistent round stability. Even in .308, it was often common to add fillers to make a 'full' case instead of a flash-prone cartridge with wild POI. 22LR is still a better option for the application. TRG Quoted:
Quoted:
With out getting into the why. Yes it can be done with out much trouble. Load heavy bullets, 75, 77,80,90 gr pills. Use faster pistol powders and very light buffer spring. It will take some tinkering, but not a big deal. let us know if you do go this route. Want to see what powder you end up using. I'm thinking uniqe or similar should be a ticket. Maybe even a trail boss? It's been a long time since I pursued subsonic 556. One of the issue was the fact that powder needs to burn, not flash. In a 556 case, some powders would lay flat, or bunch up and instead of a slow expansion, you had an instantaneous flash that resulted in a detonation or inconsistent round stability. Even in .308, it was often common to add fillers to make a 'full' case instead of a flash-prone cartridge with wild POI. 22LR is still a better option for the application. TRG |
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Quoted:
Dont have any problem in 308, 7.62x54, 35 rem, 30-06 shooting light loads using unique and trail boss with out any kind of filler. Powder does burn, just not at the slow rate of rifle powders. Never wanted to mess with subsonic 223, but to each his own. have you actually loaded any light 223s? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With out getting into the why. Yes it can be done with out much trouble. Load heavy bullets, 75, 77,80,90 gr pills. Use faster pistol powders and very light buffer spring. It will take some tinkering, but not a big deal. let us know if you do go this route. Want to see what powder you end up using. I'm thinking uniqe or similar should be a ticket. Maybe even a trail boss? It's been a long time since I pursued subsonic 556. One of the issue was the fact that powder needs to burn, not flash. In a 556 case, some powders would lay flat, or bunch up and instead of a slow expansion, you had an instantaneous flash that resulted in a detonation or inconsistent round stability. Even in .308, it was often common to add fillers to make a 'full' case instead of a flash-prone cartridge with wild POI. 22LR is still a better option for the application. TRG Dont have any problem in 308, 7.62x54, 35 rem, 30-06 shooting light loads using unique and trail boss with out any kind of filler. Powder does burn, just not at the slow rate of rifle powders. Never wanted to mess with subsonic 223, but to each his own. have you actually loaded any light 223s? I never loaded my own. A couple of re-loading buddies made them for me. We noticed inconsistent groupings, so we tried things like tipping the gun forward to be sure the powder was at the nose and compared that to tipping the barrel up to get the powder at the back of the case. It gave us different POI depending on how we manipulated the powder in the case before each shot. Our best guess was the powder burn, depending upon the random powder distribution was the cause. TxLewis is the one who loaded most of it, and he did perfect a great load for me. Holds a POI/POA shift compared to my 'normal' 308 load that allows you to expect a hit to be 1" low with subsonic as compared to a subsequent round of supersonic. That was another issue we had with Subs. POI/POA shifted dramatically between each load. So, you could not slide a subsonic in to the chamber of a 308 for a stealthy shot on a hog under a feeder, and then reload supersonic and expect to hold the same basic POA on a nice buck. TRG |
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Quoted:
Dont have any problem in 308, 7.62x54, 35 rem, 30-06 shooting light loads using unique and trail boss with out any kind of filler. Powder does burn, just not at the slow rate of rifle powders. Never wanted to mess with subsonic 223, but to each his own. have you actually loaded any light 223s? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With out getting into the why. Yes it can be done with out much trouble. Load heavy bullets, 75, 77,80,90 gr pills. Use faster pistol powders and very light buffer spring. It will take some tinkering, but not a big deal. let us know if you do go this route. Want to see what powder you end up using. I'm thinking uniqe or similar should be a ticket. Maybe even a trail boss? It's been a long time since I pursued subsonic 556. One of the issue was the fact that powder needs to burn, not flash. In a 556 case, some powders would lay flat, or bunch up and instead of a slow expansion, you had an instantaneous flash that resulted in a detonation or inconsistent round stability. Even in .308, it was often common to add fillers to make a 'full' case instead of a flash-prone cartridge with wild POI. 22LR is still a better option for the application. TRG Dont have any problem in 308, 7.62x54, 35 rem, 30-06 shooting light loads using unique and trail boss with out any kind of filler. Powder does burn, just not at the slow rate of rifle powders. Never wanted to mess with subsonic 223, but to each his own. have you actually loaded any light 223s? Brain fart, meant 308 it would lay flat. not 556. TRG |
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Quoted:
I understand they aren’t popular due to cycling issues. In theory could you just lighten the bolt, buffer, and spring for it to work? I thought it was because you could just get 22lr if you want a subsonic 22. If you want heavier bullets, you could get a 9mm AR, shoot 147/158 gr subs. Little more money for ammo and heavier bullets you can do 300BO. |
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I thought it was because you could just get 22lr if you want a subsonic 22. If you want heavier bullets, you could get a 9mm AR, shoot 147/158 gr subs. Little more money for ammo and heavier bullets you can do 300BO. Quoted:
Quoted:
I understand they aren’t popular due to cycling issues. In theory could you just lighten the bolt, buffer, and spring for it to work? I thought it was because you could just get 22lr if you want a subsonic 22. If you want heavier bullets, you could get a 9mm AR, shoot 147/158 gr subs. Little more money for ammo and heavier bullets you can do 300BO. These were teh two options I used instead of the subsonic 5.56 The 147gr 9mm is a damn good round for the AR platform. Stable, accurate and a proven performer in the hunting field for me. TRG |
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I guy next to me at the range had a box of these. $2/pop. It was interesting but not $2/round interesting. It cost me about $0.47 per to load 223 subs. Using 3gr TG. BUT The whole subsonic discussion has been done afew times down the page in the reloading forum. It's zippy / accurate out to about 75yd. @ 100 it drops 6 - 8" and 2"~ windage wise. |
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