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Posted: 8/31/2014 5:53:40 AM EDT
| Not an inline, but a percussion or flint lock? I can shoot mini balls that don't require a patch so no problem there. Might have take the can off to load, then put it back to shoot though I think I could load through a can if I am clever enough. Or would I blow up my barrel with back pressure, erode my baffles due to the type (shape) of powder, and other nasty things? |
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Can't comment on the legality of such a thing but if one were compelled to use a percussion or flintlock is hunting the application in mind? If your state allowed only primitive weapons OP do you know they will allow the mod which is anything but primitive?
Anywho seems like you would need significant overbore so you could insert a sleeve for loading. Over sized section at the end of the true barrel would be wise too. Since some % of a BP load is still burning when it leaves the barrel perhaps a non-BP propellent is in order but that can is going to be full of crap after a few shots.Crap in humid environment equals condensation so SS and take apart would seem to be in order. Minimum caliber is probably gonna be 50. I think the old TC maxi balls were 370gr so a 1050 fps of that would still have some juice. What about barrel length? What about tall sights?Seems like a near given considering the diameter of the can you will probably end up with. Bottom line is if you are thinking about this as a way to get around NFA I think you are heading into trouble. Check with ATF and you state law enforcement before you move this any further than academic discussion or you could break the law. |
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Quoted: Can't comment on the legality of such a thing but if one were compelled to use a percussion or flintlock is hunting the application in mind? If your state allowed only primitive weapons OP do you know they will allow the mod which is anything but primitive? Anywho seems like you would need significant overbore so you could insert a sleeve for loading. Over sized section at the end of the true barrel would be wise too. Since some % of a BP load is still burning when it leaves the barrel perhaps a non-BP propellent is in order but that can is going to be full of crap after a few shots.Crap in humid environment equals condensation so SS and take apart would seem to be in order. Minimum caliber is probably gonna be 50. I think the old TC maxi balls were 370gr so a 1050 fps of that would still have some juice. What about barrel length? What about tall sights?Seems like a near given considering the diameter of the can you will probably end up with. Bottom line is if you are thinking about this as a way to get around NFA I think you are heading into trouble. Check with ATF and you state law enforcement before you move this any further than academic discussion or you could break the law. It didn't occur to me but since there are places you can only hunt with blackpowder, a suppressed muzzle loader might be very nice when hunting. My Flintlock is .50 so I think I could just use a fat straw and a small funnel to load powder in, stick some lube on the end of my rod to make a bullet stick to it long enough for me to drop it straight down into the muzzle. But I could simple remove the suppressor when loading. It takes a while to go through a load and shoot cycle, so what's a little more time wasted on removing/attaching a can. I generally use a BP substitute (currently Hodgden Triple-7) though I use real 4F BP to prime my pan. Barrel is only 16" or thereabouts. Being a large diameter octagon barrel, I think my sights would clear most cans as they are quite high above the centerline of the bore. I'm worried that the barrel is weaker than a standard barrel - why is my barrel so bull barrel sized? I realize old timey guns may have needed the thick barrel cause the metal wasn't as good back then but my barrel is modern. But would any back pressure put me over the edge and blow the barrel? No, this is in no way trying to get around ATFE. I used to be a C3 and have a collection of MG's and suppressors - no way am I going to jeopardize my gear and freedom. However the point brought up is interesting - if you did build a permanently attached can or modify your muzzle loader for suppression, would it really be a suppressor since the rifle is not considered a title-1 firearm or does the rule hinge on suppressing ANY gun powder driven shot? Air guns can have suppressors, and there are no rules for them. I do have a couple of oil/solvent traps kits... Maybe this is the one situation I could use them as a unregistered suppressor legally. Perhaps sp3worker has the right idea. Register a soda bottle adaptor (if even required for a non-inline muzzle loader), and have at it. All the unburnt powder is dealt with when you change the bottle, easy/quick to twist off a bottle to load and reattach, could then shoot patched balls as well. However, being a .50 typically sending patched balls of 117-118gr at 2000+fps is probably going to destroy the bottle. Maybe if I shot subsonic velocities which the mini balls would probably be. The mini balls I am currently shooting are 338 grains. I've never choreographed one - I've only done it for my patched balls. WHY? Because I can (I hope), because I feel like it, and because different is cool. Who else would have one? Guaranteed to start a conversation when seen. I'm not hunting with it, it's just for S&G's. Same reason I shoot muzzle loaders in the first place when I already have suppressed MG's. I like to shoot everything, even if it's just a cork coming out the end. Hell, I'm already thinking about suppressing a cannon now. I've seen moderators that real tanks fire though so why not?  We've already built a cannon that will launch bottles of Tannerite so we can shoot at it where it lands. |
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Quoted: We've already built a cannon that will launch bottles of Tannerite so we can shoot at it where it lands. Isn't Tannerite supposed to detonate under shock? Or are you mixing it as the shell spins, a la binary chemical weapon shell? Fixed suppressors on air rifles are legal and available @ WalMart. I don't see how a muzzle loader is any different under Federal Law. Imagine you'd want it out of stainless steel. Pyrodex Pellets and Minié balls would seem to be the answer, no? |
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Quoted:
Isn't Tannerite supposed to detonate under shock? Or are you mixing it as the shell spins, a la binary chemical weapon shell? It's takes some energy to detonate it. I know the original stuff had to be shot with a high power rifle. I filled a bottle up to test it, and shot it with a .40 Glock from ~50 ft away, and it did nothing but split the bottle open. Same size bottle with a .223 was a whole different story. I'm pretty sure they make some now that at least some handgun rounds will activate. Evidently the launch and the landing using the cannon don't have the appropriate effect on the mixture. |
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Quoted:
It didn't occur to me but since there are places you can only hunt with blackpowder, a suppressed muzzle loader might be very nice when hunting. My Flintlock is .50 so I think I could just use a fat straw and a small funnel to load powder in, stick some lube on the end of my rod to make a bullet stick to it long enough for me to drop it straight down into the muzzle. But I could simple remove the suppressor when loading. It takes a while to go through a load and shoot cycle, so what's a little more time wasted on removing/attaching a can. I generally use a BP substitute (currently Hodgden Triple-7) though I use real 4F BP to prime my pan. Barrel is only 16" or thereabouts. Being a large diameter octagon barrel, I think my sights would clear most cans as they are quite high above the centerline of the bore. I'm worried that the barrel is weaker than a standard barrel - why is my barrel so bull barrel sized? I realize old timey guns may have needed the thick barrel cause the metal wasn't as good back then but my barrel is modern. But would any back pressure put me over the edge and blow the barrel? No, this is in no way trying to get around ATFE. I used to be a C3 and have a collection of MG's and suppressors - no way am I going to jeopardize my gear and freedom. However the point brought up is interesting - if you did build a permanently attached can or modify your muzzle loader for suppression, would it really be a suppressor since the rifle is not considered a title-1 firearm or does the rule hinge on suppressing ANY gun powder driven shot? Air guns can have suppressors, and there are no rules for them. I do have a couple of oil/solvent traps kits... Maybe this is the one situation I could use them as a unregistered suppressor legally. Perhaps sp3worker has the right idea. Register a soda bottle adaptor (if even required for a non-inline muzzle loader), and have at it. All the unburnt powder is dealt with when you change the bottle, easy/quick to twist off a bottle to load and reattach, could then shoot patched balls as well. However, being a .50 typically sending patched balls of 117-118gr at 2000+fps is probably going to destroy the bottle. Maybe if I shot subsonic velocities which the mini balls would probably be. The mini balls I am currently shooting are 338 grains. I've never choreographed one - I've only done it for my patched balls. WHY? Because I can (I hope), because I feel like it, and because different is cool. Who else would have one? Guaranteed to start a conversation when seen. I'm not hunting with it, it's just for S&G's. Same reason I shoot muzzle loaders in the first place when I already have suppressed MG's. I like to shoot everything, even if it's just a cork coming out the end. Hell, I'm already thinking about suppressing a cannon now. I've seen moderators that real tanks fire though so why not? We've already built a cannon that will launch bottles of Tannerite so we can shoot at it where it lands.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can't comment on the legality of such a thing but if one were compelled to use a percussion or flintlock is hunting the application in mind? If your state allowed only primitive weapons OP do you know they will allow the mod which is anything but primitive? Anywho seems like you would need significant overbore so you could insert a sleeve for loading. Over sized section at the end of the true barrel would be wise too. Since some % of a BP load is still burning when it leaves the barrel perhaps a non-BP propellent is in order but that can is going to be full of crap after a few shots.Crap in humid environment equals condensation so SS and take apart would seem to be in order. Minimum caliber is probably gonna be 50. I think the old TC maxi balls were 370gr so a 1050 fps of that would still have some juice. What about barrel length? What about tall sights?Seems like a near given considering the diameter of the can you will probably end up with. Bottom line is if you are thinking about this as a way to get around NFA I think you are heading into trouble. Check with ATF and you state law enforcement before you move this any further than academic discussion or you could break the law. It didn't occur to me but since there are places you can only hunt with blackpowder, a suppressed muzzle loader might be very nice when hunting. My Flintlock is .50 so I think I could just use a fat straw and a small funnel to load powder in, stick some lube on the end of my rod to make a bullet stick to it long enough for me to drop it straight down into the muzzle. But I could simple remove the suppressor when loading. It takes a while to go through a load and shoot cycle, so what's a little more time wasted on removing/attaching a can. I generally use a BP substitute (currently Hodgden Triple-7) though I use real 4F BP to prime my pan. Barrel is only 16" or thereabouts. Being a large diameter octagon barrel, I think my sights would clear most cans as they are quite high above the centerline of the bore. I'm worried that the barrel is weaker than a standard barrel - why is my barrel so bull barrel sized? I realize old timey guns may have needed the thick barrel cause the metal wasn't as good back then but my barrel is modern. But would any back pressure put me over the edge and blow the barrel? No, this is in no way trying to get around ATFE. I used to be a C3 and have a collection of MG's and suppressors - no way am I going to jeopardize my gear and freedom. However the point brought up is interesting - if you did build a permanently attached can or modify your muzzle loader for suppression, would it really be a suppressor since the rifle is not considered a title-1 firearm or does the rule hinge on suppressing ANY gun powder driven shot? Air guns can have suppressors, and there are no rules for them. I do have a couple of oil/solvent traps kits... Maybe this is the one situation I could use them as a unregistered suppressor legally. Perhaps sp3worker has the right idea. Register a soda bottle adaptor (if even required for a non-inline muzzle loader), and have at it. All the unburnt powder is dealt with when you change the bottle, easy/quick to twist off a bottle to load and reattach, could then shoot patched balls as well. However, being a .50 typically sending patched balls of 117-118gr at 2000+fps is probably going to destroy the bottle. Maybe if I shot subsonic velocities which the mini balls would probably be. The mini balls I am currently shooting are 338 grains. I've never choreographed one - I've only done it for my patched balls. WHY? Because I can (I hope), because I feel like it, and because different is cool. Who else would have one? Guaranteed to start a conversation when seen. I'm not hunting with it, it's just for S&G's. Same reason I shoot muzzle loaders in the first place when I already have suppressed MG's. I like to shoot everything, even if it's just a cork coming out the end. Hell, I'm already thinking about suppressing a cannon now. I've seen moderators that real tanks fire though so why not? We've already built a cannon that will launch bottles of Tannerite so we can shoot at it where it lands.
Enjoy your stay at Club Fed. |
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Quoted: Enjoy your stay at Club Fed. I'm not quite sure of the reason for your comment. EVERYTHING I do is legal and registered, including if I were to buy a soda bottle adaptor - I would be paying my $200 to register it as a suppressor part. I don't shoot my solvent traps, nothing illegal there. You can buy and register those adaptors as well then you can legally shoot oil filter cans. Muzzle loaders are not treated as Title-1 guns, you can mail them and there is no 4473 - as long as you aren't using an inline or something using a shotgun primer. Black powder cannons are not required to be registered either. And speaking of cannons and Tannerite - it takes a kinetic shock above the minimum velocity necessary to set it off. That is why it will not detonate if you pound it with a hammer, or when you shoot it with rimfire or anything else that's too slow. Our Tannerite cannon works just fine, it's fairly low pressure. You just can't use the flash powder stuff that rimfire will set off. ETA: I would never even attempt to incorporate a suppressor into my muzzle loader until AFTER I had found it to be legal, even registering whatever, paying my $200, and waiting forever to get it done if need be. |
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Quoted: Muzzle loaders use a small explosion to propel the bullet; smokeless uses gas to create pressure and the suppressor allows the gas to cool. I'm not sure how much a suppressor would effectively reduce the sound of black powder detonation. Well the detonation is occurring in a sealed cavity behind the bullet, and there is no ejection port. The only noise comes out the end of the barrel, which is what I want to suppress. Thinking further on this, let's take a bowling ball mortar for example. The detonation occurs at the base and the barrel has no tight seal around the ball. The push all comes from a detonation in a cavity the ball is resting on. The barrel just guides the ball. I'd like to think most of the detonation and sound occurs before the ball is even halfway up. But then maybe that's why it's not that loud. Of course, that's not what I am suppressing. Cannon I would want to suppress is my friend's 20mm. |
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Quoted:
I'm not quite sure of the reason for your comment. EVERYTHING I do is legal and registered, including if I were to buy a soda bottle adaptor - I would be paying my $200 to register it as a suppressor part. I don't shoot my solvent traps, nothing illegal there. You can buy and register those adaptors as well then you can legally shoot oil filter cans. Quoted:
Quoted: Enjoy your stay at Club Fed. I'm not quite sure of the reason for your comment. EVERYTHING I do is legal and registered, including if I were to buy a soda bottle adaptor - I would be paying my $200 to register it as a suppressor part. I don't shoot my solvent traps, nothing illegal there. You can buy and register those adaptors as well then you can legally shoot oil filter cans. Not disagreeing here. Just pointing out to others that the ATF has declared the oil can to be part of the suppressor, and changing the oil filter or soda bottle yourself would require a new $200 stamp, unless you send it back to the manufacturer for "service" to replace the filter. |
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Quoted: I'd be curious to see what the tech branch says about a flintlock barrel threaded for an oil filter. That might be an easy way to suppress a muzzel loader without NFA taxes. Not unless you permanently affix the oil filter to the bbl. That's the issue w/ black powder & air rifle suppressors - they have to be permanently affixed, or they become taxable suppressors, b/c then you can mount them on a Title 1 or 2 gun. On the plus side, you should be able to build one @ home w/o a stamp, as long as you're clearly going to permanently mount it to an existing air rifle or muzzle loader. Are there any subsonic loads for Pyrodex pellets w/ Minie balls? This: http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-prodotto.asp/l_en/idpr_376/rifles-kodiak-express-kodiak-express-mk-vi.html Plus this: 
Plus twin low-mount non-concentric integral stainless steel suppressors = win? 
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What exactly is he talking about that's illegal? I'll even give you a hint, nothing. Quoted:
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Enjoy your stay at Club Fed. What exactly is he talking about that's illegal? I'll even give you a hint, nothing. Well sure if someone had actually read the OPs post then they would come to that conclusion. but why bother reading, when one can jump to a conclusion. |
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With a flintlock, the pan flash and bang will still be an issue. Somewhat analogous to the ejection port flash and noise on an unlocked blow back firearm. And instead of an oil filter, you could use a cow head (see U.S. Patent No. 516,236 from Mar. 13, 1894). LOL it exists. cow head suppressor ok not its actual intended use, but hey you know. i can see the modifications that could work 
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Quoted:
LOL it exists. cow head suppressor ok not its actual intended use, but hey you know. i can see the modifications that could work Quoted:
Quoted: With a flintlock, the pan flash and bang will still be an issue. Somewhat analogous to the ejection port flash and noise on an unlocked blow back firearm. And instead of an oil filter, you could use a cow head (see U.S. Patent No. 516,236 from Mar. 13, 1894). LOL it exists. cow head suppressor ok not its actual intended use, but hey you know. i can see the modifications that could work What about a cat? 
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Hillarious!!! Cat suppressor works for me  But now I need to know. I have seen registered soda bottle adaptors, used legally, and the bottle was not permanent nor serial numbered (but the mount was). Was it just a manufacturer I was watching who can change out the the end the same as working on any other of his suppressor products? I know I can legally replace the wipes in my original Sionics (MAC) suppressor. The end cap on a Saker is not controlled (neither is the mount), yet it most definitely contributes to the suppression. Is the Oil Filter and Soda Bottle not the same thing? And there is still the question - Since the muzzle loader is not treated as a firearm that must be registered, restricted from mailing, or otherwise, would there even be problem suppressing it legally? Again, there are suppressors for air rifles that are not controlled, and those rifles shoot bullets as well, just with air and not black powder. A muzzle loader is treated the same as an air rifle legally - they aren't firearms and as such are not controlled or registered so what does it matter what you stick on the end of it? Who has the real answers without having to ask ATFE for a letter of opinion? |
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Quoted:
I wonder if you permanently attached it to the muzzle loader, would it be exempt from NFA. Quoted:
I wonder if you permanently attached it to the muzzle loader, would it be exempt from NFA. The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. Is a muzzle loader a firearm? |
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Quoted: But now I need to know. I have seen registered soda bottle adaptors, used legally, and the bottle was not permanent nor serial numbered (but the mount was). Was it just a manufacturer I was watching who can change out the the end the same as working on any other of his suppressor products? I know I can legally replace the wipes in my original Sionics (MAC) suppressor. The end cap on a Saker is not controlled (neither is the mount), yet it most definitely contributes to the suppression. Is the Oil Filter and Soda Bottle not the same thing?[/span]
And there is still the question - Since the muzzle loader is not treated as a firearm that must be registered, restricted from mailing, or otherwise, would there even be problem suppressing it legally? Again, there are suppressors for air rifles that are not controlled, and those rifles shoot bullets as well, just with air and not black powder. A muzzle loader is treated the same as an air rifle legally - they aren't firearms and as such are not controlled or registered so what does it matter what you stick on the end of it? Who has the real answers without having to ask ATFE for a letter of opinion? So, what I've garnered is the soda bottle adapters got banned, b/c as unregistered devices, ppl were buying them, screwing on a coke bottle, and committing evasion of federal tax felonies. So everyone fiddled around for a bit, and then said,"Hey! I need to screw this oil filter to the muzzle of my rifle so I don't spill cleaning solvent on the floor!" So now folks are committing evasion of federal tax felonies even more quietly than before. But Obama's BATFE hasn't banned oil filter adapters yet, probably realizing that we'll go to cat adapters next and then there will be hell to pay w/ the ASPCA & PETA. The serial numbered soda bottle adapter you saw probably got under the wire; maybe the end user can replace the bottle on that particular suppressor, or perhaps it has to go to a manufacturer. That's the problem w/ the oil filter adapters, or we would see the death of the suppressor industry - you have to send your used oil filter to a manufacturer to have a new oil filter serialized and replaced. We've gamed it several times here - it only works if you have a tame manufacturer who won't charge you an arm & a leg for a new serialized oil filter. I don't see how BATFE could object to a permanently mounted suppressor on a black powder rifle, as they can't regulate muzzle loaders - they're not defined as Title 1 or Title 2 firearms. But it's such an oddity, you'd want to have a letter in hand before you started construction, in my mind. |
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Quoted: So, what I've garnered is the soda bottle adapters got banned, b/c as unregistered devices, ppl were buying them, screwing on a coke bottle, and committing evasion of federal tax felonies. So everyone fiddled around for a bit, and then said,"Hey! I need to screw this oil filter to the muzzle of my rifle so I don't spill cleaning solvent on the floor!" So now folks are committing evasion of federal tax felonies even more quietly than before. But Obama's BATFE hasn't banned oil filter adapters yet, probably realizing that we'll go to cat adapters next and then there will be hell to pay w/ the ASPCA & PETA. The serial numbered soda bottle adapter you saw probably got under the wire; maybe the end user can replace the bottle on that particular suppressor, or perhaps it has to go to a manufacturer. That's the problem w/ the oil filter adapters, or we would see the death of the suppressor industry - you have to send your used oil filter to a manufacturer to have a new oil filter serialized and replaced. We've gamed it several times here - it only works if you have a tame manufacturer who won't charge you an arm & a leg for a new serialized oil filter. I don't see how BATFE could object to a permanently mounted suppressor on a black powder rifle, as they can't regulate muzzle loaders - they're not defined as Title 1 or Title 2 firearms. But it's such an oddity, [span style='font-weight: bold;']you'd want to have a letter in hand before you started construction, in my mind.[/span] Quoted: Quoted: But now I need to know. I have seen registered soda bottle adaptors, used legally, and the bottle was not permanent nor serial numbered (but the mount was). Was it just a manufacturer I was watching who can change out the the end the same as working on any other of his suppressor products? I know I can legally replace the wipes in my original Sionics (MAC) suppressor. The end cap on a Saker is not controlled (neither is the mount), yet it most definitely contributes to the suppression. Is the Oil Filter and Soda Bottle not the same thing?[/span] And there is still the question - Since the muzzle loader is not treated as a firearm that must be registered, restricted from mailing, or otherwise, would there even be problem suppressing it legally? Again, there are suppressors for air rifles that are not controlled, and those rifles shoot bullets as well, just with air and not black powder. A muzzle loader is treated the same as an air rifle legally - they aren't firearms and as such are not controlled or registered so what does it matter what you stick on the end of it? Who has the real answers without having to ask ATFE for a letter of opinion? So, what I've garnered is the soda bottle adapters got banned, b/c as unregistered devices, ppl were buying them, screwing on a coke bottle, and committing evasion of federal tax felonies. So everyone fiddled around for a bit, and then said,"Hey! I need to screw this oil filter to the muzzle of my rifle so I don't spill cleaning solvent on the floor!" So now folks are committing evasion of federal tax felonies even more quietly than before. But Obama's BATFE hasn't banned oil filter adapters yet, probably realizing that we'll go to cat adapters next and then there will be hell to pay w/ the ASPCA & PETA. The serial numbered soda bottle adapter you saw probably got under the wire; maybe the end user can replace the bottle on that particular suppressor, or perhaps it has to go to a manufacturer. That's the problem w/ the oil filter adapters, or we would see the death of the suppressor industry - you have to send your used oil filter to a manufacturer to have a new oil filter serialized and replaced. We've gamed it several times here - it only works if you have a tame manufacturer who won't charge you an arm & a leg for a new serialized oil filter. I don't see how BATFE could object to a permanently mounted suppressor on a black powder rifle, as they can't regulate muzzle loaders - they're not defined as Title 1 or Title 2 firearms. But it's such an oddity, [span style='font-weight: bold;']you'd want to have a letter in hand before you started construction, in my mind.[/span] Thanks for that, Backbencher. I didn't want to have to search the threads. I did not know the soda bottle adaptors got banned. I was probably looking at units that had been passed before the ban. I know I would like to have a letter but we know how it often goes when you ask for a letter of opinion - they decide against you then incorporate the decision as policy. And I don't want to be the first nor the last chump to try it. Has no one done this? I've seen all manners of outrageousness with firearms and NFA, surely I can't be the first freak to think of it or try it. And yes, the flash pan would make some noise but nothing like what comes out the end of the barrel. Kind of like shooting suppressed supersonic ammo - still going to be a lot of noise, but its a heck of a lot nicer.
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| Suppressor parts can't be regulated if they have other purposes, maybe. Hence the Sig v. ATF lawsuit that's currently suspended while the ATF conducts another review of the MPX-C's baffle stack/muzzle brake. I would think the soda bottle/oil cans would fall under the same rule. The adapter would be the registered part and the bottle or filter would be just parts that can't be regulated because they aren't only suppressor parts. |
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Suppressor parts can't be regulated if they have other purposes, maybe. Hence the Sig v. ATF lawsuit that's currently suspended while the ATF conducts another review of the MPX-C's baffle stack/muzzle brake. I would think the soda bottle/oil cans would fall under the same rule. The adapter would be the registered part and the bottle or filter would be just parts that can't be regulated because they aren't only suppressor parts. You would think. But after the soda bottle adapter debacle, they got smart & said we have to engrave the information on the oil filter. 
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Quoted: Thanks for that, Backbencher. I didn't want to have to search the threads. I did not know the soda bottle adaptors got banned. I was probably looking at units that had been passed before the ban.
I know I would like to have a letter but we know how it often goes when you ask for a letter of opinion - they decide against you then incorporate the decision as policy. And I don't want to be the first nor the last chump to try it. Has no one done this? I've seen all manners of outrageousness with firearms and NFA, surely I can't be the first freak to think of it or try it. And yes, the flash pan would make some noise but nothing like what comes out the end of the barrel. Kind of like shooting suppressed supersonic ammo - still going to be a lot of noise, but its a heck of a lot nicer. I just want to see your shoulder after you're done working up your subsonic loads w/ Pyrodex pellets, and tell us you're ready to write your letter left-handed b/c your right shoulder is still out of joint.
The problem is you're building a suppressor @ home, w/o a stamp. For a good reason, it's going on a non-firearm, but you don't want BATFE showing up and nailing you for it. Hence the letter. If they say no, then we know their position if you publicize it. If they say yes, then it's another chink in the armor of the NFA. |
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Quoted:
Suppressor parts can't be regulated if they have other purposes, maybe. Hence the Sig v. ATF lawsuit that's currently suspended while the ATF conducts another review of the MPX-C's baffle stack/muzzle brake. I would think the soda bottle/oil cans would fall under the same rule. The adapter would be the registered part and the bottle or filter would be just parts that can't be regulated because they aren't only suppressor parts. Oil filters AREN'T regulated as suppressor parts, except when you are using it as a suppressor part. |
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Quoted: I just want to see your shoulder after you're done working up your subsonic loads w/ Pyrodex pellets, and tell us you're ready to write your letter left-handed b/c your right shoulder is still out of joint. The problem is you're building a suppressor @ home, w/o a stamp. For a good reason, it's going on a non-firearm, but you don't want BATFE showing up and nailing you for it. Hence the letter. If they say no, then we know their position if you publicize it. If they say yes, then it's another chink in the armor of the NFA. Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for that, Backbencher. I didn't want to have to search the threads. I did not know the soda bottle adaptors got banned. I was probably looking at units that had been passed before the ban. I know I would like to have a letter but we know how it often goes when you ask for a letter of opinion - they decide against you then incorporate the decision as policy. And I don't want to be the first nor the last chump to try it. Has no one done this? I've seen all manners of outrageousness with firearms and NFA, surely I can't be the first freak to think of it or try it. And yes, the flash pan would make some noise but nothing like what comes out the end of the barrel. Kind of like shooting suppressed supersonic ammo - still going to be a lot of noise, but its a heck of a lot nicer. I just want to see your shoulder after you're done working up your subsonic loads w/ Pyrodex pellets, and tell us you're ready to write your letter left-handed b/c your right shoulder is still out of joint. The problem is you're building a suppressor @ home, w/o a stamp. For a good reason, it's going on a non-firearm, but you don't want BATFE showing up and nailing you for it. Hence the letter. If they say no, then we know their position if you publicize it. If they say yes, then it's another chink in the armor of the NFA. My flintlock takes both pellets and loose powder, so it has a removable breech block, which made me think as such I can get the barrel threaded. Normally I only shoot around 70gr to make the powder and my shoulder last longer. You don't need a stamp to build a suppressor at home if it's not for a firearm, and a muzzle loader isn't one. Air gun suppressors are not controlled. But I'm willing to use a real registered suppressor, or have one built/build myself via Form 1. This thread was not to question the legalities of suppressors, building or mounting one - it's about has anybody stuck a registered can on a muzzle loader. Period. |
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It was discussed here 3 years back, & someone said they were going to call BATFE, and never posted up:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1238798__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Suppressed_Muzzleloader.html&page=1 |
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Good search. That thread seemed to go off the same way. I don't really want to find out if I can build a muzzle loader suppressor without a stamp, I just want to stick a registered can on the end and shoot. Unfortunately I don't even have a .50 can. I have a percussion .44 pistol with a thinner barrel I could maybe stick a .45 can on, but I think the barrel is too thin and don't know if I can have the barrel threaded. One day... Then I'll be the one dude with a suppressed muzzle loader, beat that for different.
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I don't see how this setup would bypass NFA taxes Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd be curious to see what the tech branch says about a flintlock barrel threaded for an oil filter. That might be an easy way to suppress a muzzel loader without NFA taxes. I don't see how this setup would bypass NFA taxes My thinking was that I don't own a firearm that can mount an oil filter. Hence, my spare filters for my truck are not silencers. If I threaded a ML to accept an oil filter, I still wouldn't have a "firearm" that can mount a filter. I could very well be wrong, however. |
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