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Posted: 2/23/2013 7:54:01 PM EDT
| So I took photos and apparently cant add them...but here's what I got. Heavy barrel .223 with 1/2x28 threads. Thread protector fits perfectly, but when I screw the suppressor on (thread on can) I have about a .002 to .003 or so gap between the barrel and where the can stops, it can't be tightened any more to get rid of the gap....it's really hardly even visible and it threads on straight and doesnt loosen up when I've shot it but I dont think that even a little gap is right? I've done some research on it and I'm thinking about picking up some peel washers to fill that little gap....is that normal? Good/Bad idea? Any other suggestions? |
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the threading should be 1/2 x 28tpi x .4 inches long (ie the length of the threads)
most AR barrels are 1/2 x 28tpi x .6 inches long basically you are bottoming out on your first baffle. Take it to a gunsmith and let them cut .2 inches off the end. Pics would me nice to make surre we are talking about the same thing. |
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the threading should be 1/2 x 28tpi x .4 inches long (ie the length of the threads) most AR barrels are 1/2 x 28tpi x .6 inches long basically you are bottoming out on your first baffle. Take it to a gunsmith and let them cut .2 inches off the end. Pics would me nice to make surre we are talking about the same thing. Gemtech and others sell spacers you can use for that, so you don't have to cut your barrel. |
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See if the photos work.....f it, guess not...sorry guys
http://s1290.beta.photobucket.com/user/jl3612/media/2013-02-23215406_zps9c41b60a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1 http://s1290.beta.photobucket.com/user/jl3612/media/2013-02-23215537_zps0fe541c6.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0 I dont know if these show up or not, but if you hit it and open it then it should....F'n new guys |
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Quoted: $8.75 at Gemtech. I had to buy them for the same reason....Quoted: the threading should be 1/2 x 28tpi x .4 inches long (ie the length of the threads) most AR barrels are 1/2 x 28tpi x .6 inches long basically you are bottoming out on your first baffle. Take it to a gunsmith and let them cut .2 inches off the end. Pics would me nice to make surre we are talking about the same thing. Gemtech and others sell spacers you can use for that, so you don't have to cut your barrel. |
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the threading should be 1/2 x 28tpi x .4 inches long (ie the length of the threads) most AR barrels are 1/2 x 28tpi x .6 inches long basically you are bottoming out on your first baffle. Take it to a gunsmith and let them cut .2 inches off the end. Pics would me nice to make surre we are talking about the same thing. Your thinking of 22lr suppressor threads. .223 are longer. |
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Might just be me but the threads don't look right http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215406_zps9c41b60a.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215537_zps0fe541c6.jpg eta second pic Who threaded that? Threads clearly arent all the way to the shoulder. |
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Might just be me but the threads don't look right http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215406_zps9c41b60a.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215537_zps0fe541c6.jpg eta second pic Who threaded that? Threads clearly arent all the way to the shoulder. None of my barrels are threaded all the way to the shoulder. Here's my bolt action, threaded by ADCO: 
His threads look okay to me, not the best I've seen but I can't tell anything wrong with them from the picture. Obviously something is going on for the can to not be threading on all the way. I would try a spacer...it'll be a very thin one. |
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Might just be me but the threads don't look right http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215406_zps9c41b60a.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215537_zps0fe541c6.jpg eta second pic Who threaded that? Threads clearly arent all the way to the shoulder. None of my barrels are threaded all the way to the shoulder. Here's my bolt action, threaded by ADCO: http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd519/generalpurpose87/IMG_0949.jpg His threads look okay to me, not the best I've seen but I can't tell anything wrong with them from the picture. Obviously something is going on for the can to not be threading on all the way. I would try a spacer...it'll be a very thin one. Hard to tell in your picture but does the barrel taper after the threading (after last thread and ending at the shoulder)? If so the OP pics don't have a taper. I could be wrong but the taper wold allow the suppressor to screw down all the way to the shoulder. |
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Might just be me but the threads don't look right http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215406_zps9c41b60a.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215537_zps0fe541c6.jpg eta second pic Who threaded that? Threads clearly arent all the way to the shoulder. None of my barrels are threaded all the way to the shoulder. Here's my bolt action, threaded by ADCO: http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd519/generalpurpose87/IMG_0949.jpg His threads look okay to me, not the best I've seen but I can't tell anything wrong with them from the picture. Obviously something is going on for the can to not be threading on all the way. I would try a spacer...it'll be a very thin one. Hard to tell in your picture but does the barrel taper after the threading (after last thread and ending at the shoulder)? If so the OP pics don't have a taper. I could be wrong but the taper wold allow the suppressor to screw down all the way to the shoulder. Yeah, that picture sucks. It's also a couple years old, and there's a 51T mount on it now, so I can't get a better picture. You're right though, it does taper down between the threads and the shoulder. I also have a Blackhole Weaponry barrel with identical looking threads and the same type of taper between the threads and shoulder. It's hard to tell from his pic, but it looks like that portion of his barrel sits just below the depth of his threads...so he should be okay. It looks like there's a ridge at 6 o'clock very close to the shoulder. I wonder if that's bottoming the can out. |
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Might just be me but the threads don't look right http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215406_zps9c41b60a.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215537_zps0fe541c6.jpg eta second pic You need a relief cut between the rear end of the threads, and the barrel shoulder. It's difficult to thread all the way to the shoulder, so most manufacturers turn this section down to the minor diameter of the threads. This does not appear to be the case with your barrel and the threads in your can are hitting this spot before the can butts up against the shoulder. I had a thread job like this one time and I was able to cut the proper relief with a hand file, going slowly. Now the can butts up all the way to the shoulder and locks up tight. |
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Might just be me but the threads don't look right http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215406_zps9c41b60a.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215537_zps0fe541c6.jpg eta second pic Who threaded that? Threads clearly arent all the way to the shoulder. None of my barrels are threaded all the way to the shoulder. Here's my bolt action, threaded by ADCO: The barrel is missing the tapper between the threads and the shoulder. |
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Might just be me but the threads don't look right http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215406_zps9c41b60a.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215537_zps0fe541c6.jpg eta second pic Who threaded that? Threads clearly arent all the way to the shoulder. None of my barrels are threaded all the way to the shoulder. Here's my bolt action, threaded by ADCO: The barrel is missing the tapper between the threads and the shoulder. We have some high quality pictures in this thread. 
I agree the more I look at it. The manufacturer didn't properly turn the barrel down between the threads and shoulder. Either call up the manufacturer, send it to a place like ADCO, or get a very thin spacer. |
| Thanks for all the help - Looking at it I can tell there is no taper where the threads end and the shoulder of the barrel...I'm thinking I will try a small file to take off the ridge and I would bet that will take care of it....I dont have a file that small so I think I'll run to town quick and see if I can find one.....Keep you posted when I finish it |
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Might just be me but the threads don't look right http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215406_zps9c41b60a.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b527/jl3612/2013-02-23215537_zps0fe541c6.jpg eta second pic You need a relief cut between the rear end of the threads, and the barrel shoulder. It's difficult to thread all the way to the shoulder, so most manufacturers turn this section down to the minor diameter of the threads. This does not appear to be the case with your barrel and the threads in your can are hitting this spot before the can butts up against the shoulder. I had a thread job like this one time and I was able to cut the proper relief with a hand file, going slowly. Now the can butts up all the way to the shoulder and locks up tight. What size file did you use? ive got a spike LW50 barrel that has the same damn problem. |
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go to the hardware store and buy a thick o-ring for .40 cents to fill gap Op, do not do this. The axis alignment of a suppressor is from the shoulder contact and not the thread contact. Do not use peel washers, do not use a crush washers and do not bubba fuck this thing with an o ring. |
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assuming bore is concentric with suppressor, an o-ring will suffice nicely to fill the cosmetic concerning gap. I'v enever had a problem over several years now. Bottoming out the muzzle against the blast baffle instead of the back of the suppressor against the shoulder of the threads is asking for trouble. |
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assuming bore is concentric with suppressor, an o-ring will suffice nicely to fill the cosmetic concerning gap. I'v enever had a problem over several years now. Then you've been lucky. An o-ring will not evenly crush down when a suppressor is screwed on, so even if your threads are concentric to the bore, the suppressor can be misaligned by the o-ring crushing unevenly. The same goes for using crush washers. And the gap in the OP's pic is not cosmetic. The suppressor needs to be flush with the shoulder of the barrel in order to ensure that it is fully threaded squarely onto the gun and concentric to the bore. |
The o-ring I use only fills the gap. It does not provide any alignment purposes, just simple fills the gap for cosmetic purposes. There is no resistance or pressure if you use a thin enough one that doesnt engage the two parts that may need bridging if you want the gap eliminated. This is assuming proper alignment of bore to suppressor concentric is provided. Of course he may have a different issue if his engagement alignment is off. Any sort of laser on the market to check alignment ?
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The o-ring I use only fills the gap. It does not provide any alignment purposes, just simple fills the gap for cosmetic purposes. There is no resistance or pressure if you use a thin enough one that doesnt engage the two parts that may need bridging if you want the gap eliminated. This is assuming proper alignment of bore to suppressor concentric is provided. Of course he may have a different issue if his engagement alignment is off. Any sort of laser on the market to check alignment ?There should be no gap at all as the rear of the can is supposed to hit the shoulder. |
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The o-ring I use only fills the gap. It does not provide any alignment purposes, just simple fills the gap for cosmetic purposes. There is no resistance or pressure if you use a thin enough one that doesnt engage the two parts that may need bridging if you want the gap eliminated. This is assuming proper alignment of bore to suppressor concentric is provided. Of course he may have a different issue if his engagement alignment is off. Any sort of laser on the market to check alignment ?Your suppressor is supposed to be flush with the shoulder of the barrel. That is just as important as bore concentrically. If your suppressor doesn't not hit the shoulder, then you risk baffle strikes, even if the bore and threads are in spec. Again, you have been lucky if you haven't had issues with your gun/suppressor. You need to address the issue before you damage your silencer. |
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You need a new barrel, at minimum a repair/replacement. Your suppressor needs to "shoulder index" to be in perfect alignment. Ignore the person who said "use an o-ring" unless you want to buy a new suppressor. Sure, it'll work for a while, until you set the rifle down too hard and can't see that something came out of alignment... Then you get to send your suppressor back for a new baffle-stack. I've seen it happen. Ignore the person who said "use a file" unless you want to buy a new barrel and a new suppressor. You could unknowingly change the barrel's shoulder and wind up with a baffle or an end-cap strike. Ignore the person who gives an anecdote about how they "had the same problem and brought their suppressor to a machinist who modified the threads" and then they don't have any problems. Just bad advice when it's very clearly the barrel that's the issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for fixing things at home, but this is a barrel that was not machined properly, and should be treated as such. Anyone who threads a barrel like that probably didn't take much care with the rest of the process. |
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OP: You need a new barrel, at minimum a repair/replacement. Your suppressor needs to "shoulder index" to be in perfect alignment. Ignore the person who said "use an o-ring" unless you want to buy a new suppressor. Sure, it'll work for a while, until you set the rifle down too hard and can't see that something came out of alignment... Then you get to send your suppressor back for a new baffle-stack. I've seen it happen. Ignore the person who said "use a file" unless you want to buy a new barrel and a new suppressor. You could unknowingly change the barrel's shoulder and wind up with a baffle or an end-cap strike. Ignore the person who gives an anecdote about how they "had the same problem and brought their suppressor to a machinist who modified the threads" and then they don't have any problems. Just bad advice when it's very clearly the barrel that's the issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for fixing things at home, but this is a barrel that was not machined properly, and should be treated as such. Anyone who threads a barrel like that probably didn't take much care with the rest of the process. Yeah I get what your saying, and I havnt tried any fix on it yet myself, and probly wont...from reading all this though I can tell you guys that the front of the barrel is not even close to hitting the first baffle so I'm not worried about bottoming it out on the suppressor baffle...it's definitely a problem that my machinist wasnt able to make a proper 'relief cut' on the back of the threads which is whats causing the problem, being the can wont thread the last .001-2....I definitely dont think a rubber O ring is the answer, actually I wouldnt even have considered that? WTF?....and I also have no intention on modifying my suppressor.....maybe I missed a post in here somewhere but what is the reasoning of NOT using a peel washer to fill that tiny gap? I know the machinist f'd up the relief cut on the back, but I'm sure it's concentric to the bore... No peel washers on this one?? |
| The machinist didn't fuck it up if you didn't properly tell him what you needed. All the suppressors I've bought come with a thread spec for what is expected on the barrel. Guys who thread with CNC are notorious for not having a thread relief because its an extra step to provide it. Gemtech actually treads without a relief so its not necisarily required, but your threads have no relief combined with the fact that the barrel is also not threaded to the shoulder. Depending on the length of the barrel, you could have a machinist cut the barrel down and rethread, or clean that up with a relief. Either way, don't use the can until it seats to the shoulder or you risk damage. |
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Alright guys, this thread is a few days old but I wanted to update it with how I fixed my barrel for future reference (since there was a lot of good idea’s in this thread and also some WTF are you thinking ideas to.)
I obtained a ½ x 28 die from a guy locally, if you run the die normally down the threads it won’t get close enough to the shoulder of the barrel to do anything, but I turned the die backwards and ran it down. The die threaded backwards perfectly without doing anything to the established threads, and it was able to cut the last thread’s right up to the shoulder….can threads perfectly now! |
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I obtained a ½ x 28 die from a guy locally, if you run the die normally down the threads it won’t get close enough to the shoulder of the barrel to do anything, but I turned the die backwards and ran it down. The die threaded backwards perfectly without doing anything to the established threads, and it was able to cut the last thread’s right up to the shoulder….can threads perfectly now! 
You need to send that gun to ADCO to check the threads BEFORE you shoot it. You cannot use a manual die to hand cut the threads on a barrel and expect them to be within the specs required to avoid baffle strikes. You are risking serious damage to your suppressor by trying to save a few bucks. Send the barrel to a professional, let them check the threads and make sure they're concentric. If it needs to be fixed, pay them to fix it right. |
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I obtained a ½ x 28 die from a guy locally, if you run the die normally down the threads it won’t get close enough to the shoulder of the barrel to do anything, but I turned the die backwards and ran it down. The die threaded backwards perfectly without doing anything to the established threads, and it was able to cut the last thread’s right up to the shoulder….can threads perfectly now!
You need to send that gun to ADCO to check the threads BEFORE you shoot it. You cannot use a manual die to hand cut the threads on a barrel and expect them to be within the specs required to avoid baffle strikes. You are risking serious damage to your suppressor by trying to save a few bucks. Send the barrel to a professional, let them check the threads and make sure they're concentric. If it needs to be fixed, pay them to fix it right. A manual die was not used to hand cut the threads on the barrel...it was used to cut about .002" of the final thread that the lathe couldnt make...the original threads were cut correctly and concentric, the lathe just couldnt make the last .002", which is what the die was used for....pretty sure if I sent this off the company would have laughed, then turned the .002 probly the same way and charged me $100, If I wasnt sure this was correct and concentric I wouldnt shoot it. |
| If he just chased the existing threads and the die only cut the last bit leading up to the shoulder he'll be fine, assuming the original threads were concentric. That's a big assumption though. I'd have a machinist take a look at it just to be sure. It seems like a PITA to spend money on shipping and have it inspected (if you can't find a good machinist/smith local) but it's a whole lot less of a PITA than putting a bullet through your baffle stack and endcap... |
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If he adjusted the die so it was snug against the original threads
then most likely the new couple of threads he made are now just like the originals. If the die was a loose fit on the original threads then the new threads could possibly be over size or not concentric and then may cause the can too be off concentric. |
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So i called Spikes today about my same problem and got these winners as answers.
1: Dont use a thread on suppressor. You should only you a QD suppressor. 2: You shouldnt use suppressors on SS barrels. Only Chro-moly barrels b/c SS isnt as tough. 3: Use a Die to finish the threads.
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If he adjusted the die so it was snug against the original threads then most likely the new couple of threads he made are now just like the originals. If the die was a loose fit on the original threads then the new threads could possibly be over size or not concentric and then may cause the can too be off concentric. Right on, I had the die set tight so i'm confident the threads are a match |
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If he adjusted the die so it was snug against the original threads then most likely the new couple of threads he made are now just like the originals. If the die was a loose fit on the original threads then the new threads could possibly be over size or not concentric and then may cause the can too be off concentric. Right on, I had the die set tight so i'm confident the threads are a match With the can on do the visual check through the entire bore and look for a clean round hole, if you see more baffles on one side with your eye center to the bore then you won't have that nice fuzzy feeling that all is concentric. |
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So i called Spikes today about my same problem and got these winners as answers. 1: Dont use a thread on suppressor. You should only you a QD suppressor. 2: You shouldnt use suppressors on SS barrels. Only Chro-moly barrels b/c SS isnt as tough. 3: Use a Die to finish the threads. WTF nice answer to the threads that are not compatible with everything. WTF Tell that to noveski That makes stainless barrels for suppressor use. and they should finish the thread job WTF |
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