Armory Sponsor
Posted: 4/1/2011 5:58:17 AM EDT
|
Please bear with this new, "about-to-join-the-NFA-world" girl! Looking to start the process for my 1st toy as soon as my Trust is finished.
After seeing so many posts on how long it takes for the paperwork to get back, I am wondering "What exactly is it that takes so long?" If it is an individual, okay so there is the background check. Shouldn't a few keystrokes into NCIS provide the appropriate information? In seconds? And if it is a trust, what does ATF have to do before approving the F4 for it? Or is it that there is just a MOUNTAIN of F4s waiting to be handled? Inquiring minds (well, this one anyway) want to know! |
|
sometimes they lose / misplace the paperwork. after they cash your check (you did pay with a personal check I hope), wait 2-3 weeks then call to find out the status. Have your S/N ready. More than once I've known them to lose paperwork. Sometimes there may be a problem with the paperwork that a faxed copy will remedy.
And in a nutshell, it's a government agency. you're paying them union wages for a monopolized position. they have zero incentive to work any faster than they do. |
|
Technology could easily make the process as simple as buying a handgun.
It takes so long to discourage people fro buying title II toys. An easy way to reduce the amount of people engaging in a behavior is to increase the effort involved with engaging in said behavior. Another way to decrease how many people engage in buying title II firearms is increasing the costs associated with it. For example a $200 tax for every item purchased and machine guns costing $10,000 +. 
|
| I got my 02 FFL a few months ago. My wife and I formed an LLC so we both sent in fingerprint cards as "responsible persons." Well, she's keyboarded so much in her career that her fingerprints are worn practically smooth. Getting a good fingerprint is about impossible (she had the same problem with her CCW permit). So, sure enough, we had a delay because her card was unreadable. Well, fortunately, we sent in two cards each as the application requires. Now, you would think that BATFE would send BOTH cards to the FBI when they do the background check. No. It doesn't work that way. FBI must reject the first card (which was the better card, presumably). THEN the BATF can send the second card. They wait for the FBI to reject that card and ONLY THEN can the BATF request a simple records search. It took about six weeks from the first fingerprint card rejection before my wife's background check was approved. Of course, the BATFE won't schedule the site visit/interview until the background check is completed, so . . . |
|
Quoted:
I'm not sure exactly what they check, but the biggest problem is the number of applications vastly outnumbers the examiners on staff. And the fact that instead of processing forms, they answering phone calls all day asking why my form isn't done yet. 
1. Leave 'em alone. 2. Let 'em work. 3. ??? 4. Profit = form complete. |
|
Quoted: Yep. And when the stamp comes back you have almost forgotten about it. Kinda like surprising yourself with a really cool present...............Quoted: I'm not sure exactly what they check, but the biggest problem is the number of applications vastly outnumbers the examiners on staff. And the fact that instead of processing forms, they answering phone calls all day asking why my form isn't done yet. 1. Leave 'em alone. 2. Let 'em work. 3. ??? 4. Profit = form complete. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep. And when the stamp comes back you have almost forgotten about it. Kinda like surprising yourself with a really cool present...............
Quoted:
I'm not sure exactly what they check, but the biggest problem is the number of applications vastly outnumbers the examiners on staff. And the fact that instead of processing forms, they answering phone calls all day asking why my form isn't done yet.
1. Leave 'em alone. 2. Let 'em work. 3. ??? 4. Profit = form complete. wrong. when you call the NFA Branch, the RECEPTIONIST that answers the phone is NOT processing forms... this is a stupid myth the only time you talk to an examiner is if you specifically ask to speak with them. |
|
I picked up the form 4s for my supressor last night, after waiting 3 months for the form 3 to transfer said suppresor to my dealer.
That being said, dropped off a form 2 and 4 today with the locals while doing figerprints. They go to 2 different places so we will see how long they each takes. While at the dealer, they said there are 12 examiners for the entire country. I don't know if thats true, if it relates only to form 3s or what. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yep. And when the stamp comes back you have almost forgotten about it. Kinda like surprising yourself with a really cool present...............Quoted: I'm not sure exactly what they check, but the biggest problem is the number of applications vastly outnumbers the examiners on staff. And the fact that instead of processing forms, they answering phone calls all day asking why my form isn't done yet. 1. Leave 'em alone. 2. Let 'em work. 3. ??? 4. Profit = form complete. wrong. when you call the NFA Branch, the RECEPTIONIST that answers the phone is NOT processing forms... this is a stupid myth the only time you talk to an examiner is if you specifically ask to speak with them. I argue that every single time it's posted. I'm about done arguing it. It seems that no matter how often it's pointed out as a falsehood, someone will keep spreading it. Calling to check the status of your forms DOES NOT cause any hangups. Receptionist != examiner |
|
12 examiners to process over 85,000 forms every year comes to approximately 30 forms PER DAY per examiner. That is without vacations, sick days, hiccups in the process, etc.
The N.F.A. branch is extremely understaffed, probably by design . http://www.atf.gov/statistics/ |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep. And when the stamp comes back you have almost forgotten about it. Kinda like surprising yourself with a really cool present...............
Quoted:
I'm not sure exactly what they check, but the biggest problem is the number of applications vastly outnumbers the examiners on staff. And the fact that instead of processing forms, they answering phone calls all day asking why my form isn't done yet.
1. Leave 'em alone. 2. Let 'em work. 3. ??? 4. Profit = form complete. wrong. when you call the NFA Branch, the RECEPTIONIST that answers the phone is NOT processing forms... this is a stupid myth the only time you talk to an examiner is if you specifically ask to speak with them. bingo! so tired of reading stop calling your slowing things up. the person answering the phone is doing what he or she was hired to do. |
|
Quoted:
There are only 12 examiners to process all of the Form 1's, 2's, 3's, 4's, 5's, 10's, etc. Also, the background check process is done by the FBI, and they handle the checks for other .gov agencies as well (e.g. DoD security clearances), so that can take a while. Which is why NICS checks take more than five minutes or so... |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
There are only 12 examiners to process all of the Form 1's, 2's, 3's, 4's, 5's, 10's, etc. Also, the background check process is done by the FBI, and they handle the checks for other .gov agencies as well (e.g. DoD security clearances), so that can take a while. Which is why NICS checks take more than five minutes or so... The NFA investigation is a lot more thorough, which is why you have to submit fingerprint cards. Granted, it's nothing like an SSBI... |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There are only 12 examiners to process all of the Form 1's, 2's, 3's, 4's, 5's, 10's, etc. Also, the background check process is done by the FBI, and they handle the checks for other .gov agencies as well (e.g. DoD security clearances), so that can take a while. Which is why NICS checks take more than five minutes or so... The NFA investigation is a lot more thorough, which is why you have to submit fingerprint cards. Granted, it's nothing like an SSBI... What fingerprint cards?
You'd think as part of their "investigation" they could investigate that I've already got a bunch of stamps and speed that shit up. 
|
|
Quoted:
12 examiners to process over 85,000 forms every year comes to approximately 30 forms PER DAY per examiner. That is without vacations, sick days, hiccups in the process, etc. The N.F.A. branch is extremely understaffed, probably by design . http://www.atf.gov/statistics/ Add to this all the knuckleheads that put things like "zombie hunting" or similar crap on their Form 1's trying to be funny and then getting rejected, just adding to the backlog and holding everyone else up. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not sure exactly what they check, but the biggest problem is the number of applications vastly outnumbers the examiners on staff. And the fact that instead of processing forms, they answering phone calls all day asking why my form isn't done yet.
1. Leave 'em alone. 2. Let 'em work. 3. ??? 4. Profit = form complete. no. the folks who answer the phones are there to... answer phones. examiners are only on the phones for a few specific things. they are NOT taking calls from impatient ARFcommers checking the status of their forms. now, to answer the OP's question. i've said this a million times, but it is true enough that it bears repeating. OP, the reason you don't understand why the ATF "takes so long" is because you are under the mistaken impression that they are there to help you. there may be some very nice, very helpful folks there, but as an agency the ATF is not there to make sure you can easily own the latest and greatest toys. they are there for precisely the opposite reason. at their absolute best, they still exist to *impede* firearms ownership. |
|
Quoted:
Exactly. The $200 tax stamp was put in place to decrease the amount of people willing/able to purchase. They also use long wait times to discourage. It takes so long because they want it to take so long. SAR interviewed phil dater (gemtech, AWC, etc.) about two and a half years ago. the article was incredible, and PHD talked at-length about the "old days" of NFA. one if the interesting tidbits from that interview was where he spoke about filing paperwork in the mid-50's (i think... could have been early 60's, i don't recall exactly). he commented that if it took more than a few weeks for the feds to turn your paperwork around, you knew there was something wrong with it. i was bowled over by that comment. here we are living in an age where you can find anything in just a few clicks, and where an interested federal agency could find out what you had for breakfast by lunch, but when the article was written people were still waiting a year for transfers to go through... then you have PHD speaking about a time when everything was done by "snail-mail" and the forms were still turned around in a fraction of the time. in the end that one comment struck me as a the perfect example of how making laws to "keep X out of the hands of Y" only really just puts roadblocks in everyone's way, and how over time those impediments only grow and expand with the ever-larger and less efficient government. |
Armory Sponsor