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Posted: 2/19/2009 8:15:39 AM EDT
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Hello,
I'm planning on getting a Spectre, and I saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahqgJDyzm6Y I looked up the Max Chamber pressures for both the 5.7x28 round and the 223 Remington, and the 223 spec was about 10% higher than that of the 5.7x28....very close. Anyone using this on a 223? Yeah, the Spectre is not rated, there is a disclaimer on the video, BUT, has anyone used this on a 223? What rounds were you using? Yes, I could get a 223 rated silencer, and I will probably not use the Spectre on a 223, just wondering the Spectre's true capabilities. |
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Hello, I'm planning on getting a Spectre, and I saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahqgJDyzm6Y I looked up the Max Chamber pressures for both the 5.7x28 round and the 223 Remington, and the 223 spec was about 10% higher than that of the 5.7x28....very close. Anyone using this on a 223? Yeah, the Spectre is not rated, there is a disclaimer on the video, BUT, has anyone used this on a 223? What rounds were you using? Yes, I could get a 223 rated silencer, and I will probably not use the Spectre on a 223, just wondering the Spectre's true capabilities. No. Do not do this. You will poke your eye out. I regret posting that video. Chamber pressure and muzzle pressure / volume of gas are different things. |
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The .223 produces a lot more volume of gas you are dumping into the blast chamber, working to overwhelm the chamber with volume and blow it up. So chamber pressures are somewhat irrelevant.
Using it on a 5.56 is probably a bad idea. The HTG universal probably uses a relatively thick, 17-4 blast baffle and due to the nature of the epsilon baffle- that makes the entire long blast chamber 17-4 which, when precipitation hardened, has strength properties more like inconel than stainless steel, so the 1" universal may very well be safe for 5.56 when the 1" Spectre is not reccomended by SWR for use on 5.56 weapons. Either way, the 1"x6" cans are only ~22DB silencers in 5.56 so they are unimpressive performers on 5.56 weapons. |
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Quoted:
Hello, I'm planning on getting a Spectre, and I saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahqgJDyzm6Y I looked up the Max Chamber pressures for both the 5.7x28 round and the 223 Remington, and the 223 spec was about 10% higher than that of the 5.7x28....very close. Anyone using this on a 223? Yeah, the Spectre is not rated, there is a disclaimer on the video, BUT, has anyone used this on a 223? What rounds were you using? Yes, I could get a 223 rated silencer, and I will probably not use the Spectre on a 223, just wondering the Spectre's true capabilities. I think the video about sums it up. I doubt that many people have done, or will admit to, doing what was shown in the video. You probably could, but if you do, and if you screw it up, you're in for another stamp and the cost fo repair. |
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You can get a silencer to be ok for a few rounds and then later the metal can fatigue out and the tube bulge or baffles start to rattle around from compression.
If you had a high speed camera you might be able to see the tube bulging when the round is fired and begin to understand why the metal doing this so fast your eye misses it still can result in eventual failure. SCOPE FLEXING |
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for educational purposes i think u should try it and post vids of the inevitable catastrophe. ive got sbrs and cans and one of em being a spectre awaitin approval id never shoot anything other than whats warranted by swr through my 700 dollar suppressor(after stamp). you could by it. blow it up, by it again and learn spending 1400 in the process, OOORRR spend 1400 on the spectre and a 223 can. besides i imagine the suppression on a 223 would suck. i can think no earthly reason to attempt such a thing unless ur SOT rich or stupid emphasis on stupid. Jeremy |
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Again....I'm just asking what will happen. I have no intentions of using the device outside of its rated specifications. HOWEVER, like all good designs, there are built in margins of safeties. Just off the top of my head, if the barrel pressure exceeds that of the highest pressured 5.7x28 round, a few things could happen to the Spectre:
1. Baffles walls could rupture. 2. Baffle washers could deform. 3. Suppressor housing could rupture. Looking at the Max rated chamber pressure loads, cuz is that all I could find, it seems that the Max Chamber pressure(not barrel pressure) for the 223 Remington is about 10% higher than that of the 5.7x28 round. Better numbers would be barrel pressures, but I couldn't find them. All one would then need is to find out the various thicknesses of the various components of the suppressor, do some simple math using some newtonian formulas and one could roughly determine what would happen. But, I'm too lazy and went the path of least resistance and posted this inquiry. I appreciate all the constructive remarks, but not the captious ones. Thanks, Richard |
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Again....I'm just asking what will happen. I have no intentions of using the device outside of its rated specifications. HOWEVER, like all good designs, there are built in margins of safeties. Just off the top of my head, if the barrel pressure exceeds that of the highest pressured 5.7x28 round, a few things could happen to the Spectre: 1. Baffles walls could rupture. 2. Baffle washers could deform. 3. Suppressor housing could rupture. Looking at the Max rated chamber pressure loads, cuz is that all I could find, it seems that the Max Chamber pressure(not barrel pressure) for the 223 Remington is about 10% higher than that of the 5.7x28 round. Better numbers would be barrel pressures, but I couldn't find them. All one would then need is to find out the various thicknesses of the various components of the suppressor, do some simple math using some newtonian formulas and one could roughly determine what would happen. But, I'm too lazy and went the path of least resistance and posted this inquiry. I appreciate all the constructive remarks, but not the captious ones. Thanks, Richard Nothing may happen. It might blow up and kill people standing next to you. You might launch everything down range. Go look at the max chamber pressure on the 50 BMG. |
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playing along, here's what I'd "think" would happen
1: can walls would buldge 2: can walls would rupture, possibly fragmenting 3: internals would try to push through front of can a; collapsing baffles b; if endcap failure, pushing guts out front of can c; separating at some point, launching downrange 4: any/all above 5: nothing as noted, I think volume is more the issue than the pressure created. 22lr cans simply dont have the volume of 223/556 cans. and engineered to different tolerances. example, the little can bigbore is playing with here: little can might have the same volume as a 22lr suppressor, but is surely built to different specs, handling volume/pressure accordingly. in my mind, although the hole going thru them is the same size, you arent comparing apples to apples in their constructed intent just my opinion though...... |
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I looked up the Max Chamber pressures for both the 5.7x28 round and the 223 Remington, and the 223 spec was about 10% higher than that of the 5.7x28....very close. I think that the logic is a bit flawed: Where similar chamber pressures= so what is being seen at the end of the barrel is "very close". . |
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I looked up the Max Chamber pressures for both the 5.7x28 round and the 223 Remington, and the 223 spec was about 10% higher than that of the 5.7x28....very close. I think that the logic is a bit flawed: Where similar chamber pressures= so what is being seen at the end of the barrel is "very close". . Huh? I'm just comparing Max Chamber pressures of both the 5.7x28 and the 223 Remington. No logic involved. |
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edited The thing is, as the maker of that sppressor, I DO know what happens to it. This is why I'm saying please don't do it. No worries...I ain't gonna do it. Just curious about the design of the Spectre since its rated at Full Auto with the 5.7x28 round. The Stress and Strains with a FA 5.7x28 sure would seem much less than that with a subsonic .223 . |
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You can get a silencer to be ok for a few rounds and then later the metal can fatigue out and the tube bulge or baffles start to rattle around from compression. If you had a high speed camera you might be able to see the tube bulging when the round is fired and begin to understand why the metal doing this so fast your eye misses it still can result in eventual failure. SCOPE FLEXING I love seeing that video pop up. I'm glad I encoded it. 
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Can you pull it? No more than I can pull the video I made from YouTube; my copy is still live on SoapBox, but someone moved it to YouTube and there you go. |
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so were you referring to subsonic 223 this whole time time cuz theres a substantial difference between that and full power 223 obviously..? Jeremy Not necessarily....just wondering what the limit was for the Spectre. There is also a difference between the 5.56 and a 223 . I guess my root question is, what were the stress/strain/pressure loads that were used in the design of the Spectre. If it was designed for the stress/strain/pressure loads of a FA 5.7x28, and there are some 223 ammunition that do not exhibit the same stress/strain/pressure loads as that of the most powerful of 5.7x28 ammunition, then from a structural design point of view, the Spectre could work with CERTAIN types of 223 ammunition. |
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edited The thing is, as the maker of that sppressor, I DO know what happens to it. This is why I'm saying please don't do it. No worries...I ain't gonna do it. Just curious about the design of the Spectre since its rated at Full Auto with the 5.7x28 round. The Stress and Strains with a FA 5.7x28 sure would seem much less than that with a subsonic .223 . It is rated full auto for the 22 only. Semi with the 5.7 |
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It is rated full auto for the 22 only. Semi with the 5.7 Ahh...OK, but its still designed for to withstand the stress/strain/pressure loads of the 5.7x28mm in semi. I still would think that the stress/strain/pressure loads of the 5.7x28mm would be much less than of CERTAIN 223 ammunition. Again, I ain't gonna put the Spectre on a 223, just real curious of the design of this MULTI-caliber suppressor. Like all good designs, you certainly would have to design to your wost case loads whether they be static or dynamic and you would also design in a factor of safety. So this inquiry is more academic than practical. |
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So this inquiry is more academic than practical. I'd say academically that even though the spectre "can" handle "some" 223/556 loads, its much easier to give a blanket "dont do it" for the entire caliber. obviously the suppressor "can" handle it, but how many times would you want to test that theory? think the point of the video is that you are more than good to go on 22lr and 5.7, so feel safe in the product you've spent your hard earned bucks on. |
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