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Posted: 1/31/2008 7:48:57 PM EDT
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Seems to me that this might work to reduce sound levels. Never tried it, maybe some of you have but I am guessing that it should work. Wrap around the can some thick material like leather, longer than the can by several inches 4 or 5. Then inside of that 4 or 5 inches glue some sound absorbing material leaving a hole for bullet exit. When the bullet exits the can it travels through the 4 or 5 inches of sound absorbing material deadening the sound more. Additionally the wrap around the can helps to attenuate the ringing in the can. Anyone try this ? Here is a pic of my idea. I know it increases size/bulk etc, but would it work when noise is the biggest issue? http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii138/garilla1/can-1.jpg |
| I know in old suppressors they used steel wool and things to pack into the can since the baffle technology wasn't very good. Another thing like the old MAC sonics suppressor used wipes to help suppress. Also just add water, that can help suppress. But these days the suppressor technology has improved a lot, so just the plain dry can works very well. |
I think if you are using a good can to start with it isn't going to make much of a change. If you are playing with one of the "hayduke" ones, sure it will make it better BUT that woudn't be legal. You also risk blowing apart your "new" silencer with stikes if it is not aligned correctly. What you speak of would be possession of an illegal silencer. UNless you are an 07/SOT DO NOT DO IT. It is not worth the $200 for a F1 either. While you say "I don't care about the law" that IS part of the COC here. I'm going to let it stand because I'm guessing you were just coming back at the normal people that jump over all over everyone here. |
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That does it... I'm thinking I really don't need to bother coming into this section of the forum anymore. Anytime anyone says ANYTHING... sombeody has to come in here and harrass them. The guy had an idea... and he wondered if anyone else had it too... or what they thought ... and the thread gets sidetracked YET AGAIN. Disgusting. What... the guy needs to go get a form1 or something just to TALK ABOUT a goddamn idea?!?!??!! Obviously he'd need one if he started building it... but why not leave the legal issues up to HIM!!???! Its HIS responsibility to follow the law. It is NOT our responsibility to make him. If he wants to talk about an idea... what is the harm in letting him? BUILDING it without paperwork is a different story... There are people talking about building your own all over the place in a sticky up top. Why aren't they chastized to death with the "its illegal to build a suppressor" talk? If he gets his forms done and taxes paid... he is every bit as legal as a guy buying a pre-made can. |
The issue is he outright said "I don't care about the laws". Read the COC. As I said to him, I'll let it stand BECAUSE he was attacked. |
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FWIW, I year or so back a low post count newb posted a similar question regarding (IIRC) using washers to improve suppressor performance. It was met with much the same responses as this thread. So after a few days it calms down to a relatively calm discussion about the idea. Then another low post newb joins saying "gosh, this sounds like a great idea, but I can't figure out how to do it." So then this rather awkward "Fred and Ginger" act (it's an obscure reference kids, go ask your folks) starts with the two of them doing this "we can't figure out how to do this, can anyone help, and you know maybe build one and let us know how it works" shtick. Right. Up to this point I was all for the free discussion of ideas, not so much after that. So JMHO, proceed with caution. Talk is fine, but action (evan if it comes close to entrapment) will get you Randy Weavers old cell. Peace out. 
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Understood. I guess I'm just confused. I thought law enforcement was for Cops, and various other agencies... not forums.  This doesnt sound like a case of a couple of kids building a silencer to me. This sounds like a guy that HAS a registered can... or is going to purchase one... wanting to talk about making it quieter. Big difference. Anyway. Reason it pissed me off was that I had wondered the exact same thing, and would have liked for knowledgable people to chime in with some technical explanation as to why it would or why it wouldn't work. I wasn't looking for the same old crap that I see in nearly EVERY thread on this section of the forums. I hope we can still get some people to explain that. :) |
Not really... adding to it changes the equation just as the ATF considers each individual baffle a silencing device and so the sheeple are not to change or re-arrange baffles. Now, that being said, I think Matt may be reading a little much into the OP's post. I think he said he wasn't interested in the legal factor of the question simply because he was asking a purely technical question: would it work. LEgal questions would come later if one decided to actually proceed with said process. Because said process could be legally done as long as you bribe the gov't (pay the tax) then it's not like asking, "how do I make my AR go full auto?". Now that being said, I also would like to add that I would HATE to have Matt's job as mod in this area. With all the stupid crap that pops up in here, he has his work cut out for him and I'm sure he is pretty paranoid about such posts so I don't blame him at all for making it clear that the thread is on watch. Just my opinion that is worth exactly what you paid me for it. |
Oh, that's easy. You would get confetti on your first shot. The pressures we are talking about here are far in excess of what a leather wrap (even with sub sonic ammunition) could handle. |
See... this is why I get pissed off in this forum. He said wrap leather AROUND the can... and put sound deadening material of some sort INSIDE the can. The question still stands... and I still would like to hear some technical arguments. |
Please reread his post. It states "4 to 5 inches longer then the can." Confetti. |
The Brits put oil soaked felt in some of their cans. What he is talking about I would expect to see in one of the improvised silencer books. Not worth my time as an 07 to try, and not worth anyones time to spend $200 to F1. It will work to some degree. It all depends on the caliber. It might be better to just put some water in the can to begin with. The "state" in the OP's profile scare me too. So if this is just for learning, the answer is "yes it will work, no I wouldn't bother" If you live outside the USA ... knock yourself out. Now ... I'm off to SHOT ... so behave. |
I agree - confetti. The leather would likely hold for any pistol-caliber cartridge. However, without some kind of endcap, the internals would be pushed out the end. |
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WOW this thread went to shit fast. The way I see it, there is really not much difference between this idea and the flap type heat covers that people actually use. I know you can't pack steel wool doon a metal tube. I am wondering if a cover ( maybe leather or nylon) could have fiberous cotton type material inside it. If the can is not changed and the cover can not be used by itself seems that it would be fine. Maybe keep the extra length down and have the material around the can more than around an area past the length of the can. If this guy is a troll, SO WHAT. I love to read and learn new things. IF new people can't ask questions then AR15.com will never be any better than it is. I think the I don't care about the law statement. Was because this is not a I WANT TO BUILD THIS thread. It was a simple Hey would this work question. Flamesuit on BIGFOOT |
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my impression is that when he said "i don't care about the laws" he was stating that the physics of the problem were the only concern at this moment. i believe that he would properly register and apply all applicable laws if he were to build such a device. surely, ANYONE who visits this forum knows that the advocation, implication, hint, or mere THOUGHT of evading or dis-obeying the law will not be tolerated... "i for one believe him.." |
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Wow I really started something. I am utterly amazed at some of the responses I got. A few of you are right on the money, I was just curious if the proposed idea would work, or if anybody had ever tried it. A technical discussion. I have no intention on building this or modifying an existing one at all. It was just something I thought about as I have been studying suppressors for some time and contemplated this idea as a possible way to get rid of that so called FRP without adding much weight, the only drawback would be bulk and size. I figured if anybody would know the answer, it would be someone in this forum. I also have interests in race cars and study high performance race engines but it isn't likely I'll ever get one of those either, I got a wife. Suppose a young guy stumbles upon this forum, a fellow who has interest in firearms, doesn't own any mind you. He subsequently posts something and all he gets as answers is off topic bickering, then what do you think his impression would be of the firearm community? We the people, the "firearm community" need to, "HAVE TO" do a better job to facilitate open discussion to gain more people to stand by us. Some in here are very diligent in standing up for those rights, I commend you, those that attempt to squash that freedom, well you know who you are. You need to take a look at what your doing. Only through open discussion and the sharing of ideas, "not yet illegal in NJ" can the public be educated. I have read and reread the Code of Conduct (really called, "Conduct in the suppressors Forum"), and it only talks about being nice and stop being pricks to each other or you'll be kicked out. I have read the Rules for this forum, and in there it says, "No questions about or discussion of anything illegal." Since when did discussing an idea become illegal, are ideas banned in any state ? I did see this in the Rules however: What is allowed: --Discussion of anything Silencer-related. Well I really didn't get a good answer on the question, one guy had a thought it might blow out, maybe so. I hear that over at www.fat-lawyer.com that they have nice federal forums for discussion of all issues related to federal law, some of you guys should go there, stay a while, you might like it. |
I disagree. For those that answered your question, they told you it would likely put you in possession of illegal silencer parts, wouldn't be worth the extra work because it wouldn't hold up, and would depend on caliber and might cause catastrophic failure and thus possibly injury to the user. Those all sound like lots of reasons why it wouldn't work or would be impractical. Question asked and answered, even with all the fluff. When you say " I dont care about the law " you shouldn't expect some or most to take you seriously. Officer:Sir I stopped you for speeding. YOU: I dont care much about the law. Yeah that'll get you a great response also. 
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Everyone needs to lighten up and understand some things about forums like this in general: The Mods running the forums have invested time to keep things appropriate--including legal. Why? If some flake comes to ARF.com and gets info--then goes on a shooting spree--what do you think is going to happen to the forum? Does anyone remember the "Hitman" book by Rex Feral published by Paladin Press? Some whackjob who killed a couple people had a copy, so he tells the media--that was why/how he did it. The liberals love to find SOMETHING to blame, rather than a person who needs to be responsible for their actions. How many folks donated money to Paladin Press to help with legal fees? (I did--did you?)How many are going to pony up if it happens with ARF.com? Don't misunderstand--I'm all for exchanging ideas and I in no way support censorship. This is the "liberal irony" because THEY say don't want censorship UNLESS it advances their liberal cause--like anything anti-gun. Comments like "I don't care about the law" can be viewed a couple different ways and are a red flag. Our laws are a little screwy--discussing an illegal activity can be interpretted as "Conspiracy to committ a felony..." which is why the Code of Conduct governs this forum. Don't believe me? Contact a 07 manufacturer and ask them what parts you need to convert your AK or AR.....when you don't get an answer--call back 3 or 4 times and be persistent--tell them you hate censorship and just want the information 'cause you're writing a book--give them your address....See what happens. The days of a homeshop inventor making the next suppressor or SMG have gone--because of a variety of laws preventing it. Guess we needed to be saved from ourselves?  BS.Flame suit on 
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Wouldnt it be nice if organizations like ar15.com stood UP for our rights... instead of just censored us? They don't want to deal with the potential liability of FREE SPEECH IN AMERICA... so they tell us we cant talk about an idea. I'm very confused. I may be coming on a little harsh... so if thats the case, sorry if I offend anyone. I just really do not like how often and how easily outfits bend to the whim of the gun grabbers. They often do it without even knowing it. FIGHT FOR US damnit... and we will support you! Take away our right to free speech by censoring what we can talk about... and I for one will not support you. |
folks make suppressors everyday. If I had a lathe and a mill, I would file my form 1 tomorrow just to experiemnt for fun (granted us sheeple can't make SMG's). and again to the other above posters that can't seem to comprehend what the OP was saying: Instead of saying he "didn't care" about the law. He was saying he "wasn't interested in the legal aspects of his question because he was only wanting to know the technical aspects of how it woud work". So when you read his post, read it as "I don't need legal advice because it's a hypothetical". It's amazing how a bad choice of a couple of words has thrown this entire thread into a tailspin. When I first read the post, I understood what he was saying. Also, saying, "I don't need your legal advice" is a lot different than asking how to make an illegal product. |
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It seems daily we get folks asking "how can i make my AR15 into a machinegun" Or "how can i use tannerite to make pipe bombs" Or "how can i do (insert illegal act here)" Being fairly new, and asking iffy question will trigger a troll response. They automatically assume you are A: a fed B: some moron about to blow themselves up, or C: a Fed. There is nothing wrong with the actual technical discussion of suppressors. So if i hit the troll button a bit early, i apologize. But on a completely technical level, i don't think what you suggest will do much, if anything, to increase the sound reduction. |
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Some very good points are being made about our current society. It is true that what someone may say in a discussion can then be twisted around to be used as fuel against you. And it is also true that we have a right to free speech. Some very good points on both sides and both sides must be considered in light of our current society. But I should note that if this forum is afraid of being libel or that someone would say that they got the "how to" from ar15.com then why is there a forum named "Homade can...FORM 1" which contains detailed and pictorial information on "how to" ? |
If you're going to quote him, at least get it right:
I can see how you mis-interpreted his statement, but it seems fairly obvious to me that he simply wants input on the technical issues and does not wish to discuss the legal issues in this technical forum. |
Well in the real COC (little button): 3.) Posting or linking to information on how to make illegal modifications to firearms or purchase illegal items. Now, you need to read, because I told you twice that it would work, but it really depends. |
Ok, so I have sand in my mangina.  I'm still not happy about the Gemtech Multimount.  |
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Well, I do think it would make a difference but not very much. The material would have to be some kind of high density material which I don't think would work too good. If you had an endcap to hold it in then you could use more porous material and I think that would work great but again I do think that would cross the line. I have one of the TAB covers for my .30 can and it does take out some of the ping but mainly reduces mirage. I have one of the old MAC suppressors and changing the material in the first stage makes a big difference. You can have extra DISPOSABLE parts for your suppressor lying around, just not in the finished stage. That means you can have a sheet of wipe material but not punched out and ready to insert. Take out the old wipes, cut them into 4 pieces and then stamp out two more and put the new ones in. All legal. YMMV |
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