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Posted: 1/16/2007 8:53:48 AM EDT
| SO if one was going to build a 11.5" SBR what woul dbe your choice of a suppresor and why. I was looking at either the SCAR,G5, or one of the OPS CQB cans. Decisions, Decisions. |
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I like the new AAC 416-SD the best for that application. It is the same size as the SCAR, but has the new latch mount and is 1 oz lighter weight (15 oz total). AAC will have the first production cans ready in a few weeks. The can is in the 28 dB reduction area like the SCAR. The only reason they are still producing the SCAR is mainly because of the contract with FN. You will trade some sound reduction for the copactness of the can. That is a good trade, for me. Other folks might appreciate the larger cans with better sound reduction, like the M4-2000 mod 07 (in the -35 dB). I like the Gemtech can, but like the AAC mount better. Gemtech is a good company with a good reputation. Their products are readily available and their service record is good. When I met Phil Seaberger of Ops Inc at the SHOT Show this weekend I told him the truth: I like the Ops Inc cans but they aren't exactly turning high volumes of product out into the market. That worries me as an end user who might need service in the future. If Ops wants to play seriously in the civilian market, they need to step up production. That is my ONLY complaint with Ops. AAC used to be in the same boat, to a degree, with getting product out the door. They have really turned that around IMHO and are cranking out product better and faster these days. All three are good products. It may boil down to what your dealer has in stock.  Best regards, Mark |
I've found the other side of that coin, and consider your complaint a good thing in a way. For OPS the civilian market isnt a drop in the bucket, and probably not worth the effort it takes for the paperwork and such. Since most cans made are going to .mils, its a good thing for those who bought on form 4s, as the .mil guys have never required any follow up service. The few cans sold on form 4s, get the full attention should an issue come up. In the tactical application of suppressors in the US Military, no one can argue the proven performance and reputation OPS has earned over the years. With all the options available to the Form 4 market, I dont see anyone ordering enough OPS cans to make any difference in the big picture(stepping up civilian production). There are too many options. Folks can agrue what makes one better than another, but it comes down to what the end user "wants" not "needs". All the cans the OP asked about will do everything he wants, and then some. All things equal, or not I like the OPS cans best because of their history, performance and largely because I think they "look" cool. |
| Some good arguments here. Steve we all know you are a huge OPS fan but I guess I need to go back and think about what will fit my application and what I am really looking for. I would like to keep the can short for obvious reasons but at the same time want a good DB reduction. I will need to research each can and look at some user feedback to be sure. |
I would buy another M496D (G5 now) , which is on my 11.5" upper now. Why? I like their service. Their product does what it says. |
How well does it run on your 11.5" do you have any pics? |
I don't know what one it would be, perhaps research would give you an answer, but I would go with the most dB reduction and the least weight. I carry mine hunting and you spend a lot more time carrying the weapon than you do using it. The durability factor is one to consider, but if I bought the most durable silencer in the world I still wouldn't go out and put magazine after magazine through my weapon just to try to burn up the barrel, and tear up the silencer. 223 silencers are loud, so you want as far below 140dB (hearing safe/damage mark) as you can get and still be the lightest to carry. Buying a 223 silencer and still having to wear hearing protection seems kind of silly, so buy a quiet one. |
| An OPS 15th or 16th would both be good...robust mount, good reduction, great counter balance...for 'feel', nothing compares to an OPS on the end of the barrel, certainly when dealing with an SBR were balance is oh so important. If you want QD than you'd be out of luck here, but QD is over-rated anyway. |
Why don't you like the fast-attach cans? Just curious. Mark |
For the average civiy out on the range, I guess QD is just fine. However, from a tactical standpoint, QD is unquestionably over-rated. I feel this because: Once you head out, you either go suppressed or not, there is no in-between. If, & it is a very big if, you feel ingress does not require a can upon the weapon, you always have time in a LCC to put the can on, QD or thread, it doesn't matter. Also, once the first rounds go through the can, it is no longer QD. Sure, if you have a glove, that's well & good, but gloves hamper finger dexterity & fine motor skills deteriorate under stress. The last thing I want over my hands,...hands that manipulate laser/light/NVG switches I might add..., is a bulky glove. I also see no need what-so-ever to take a can on/off during or near, or after a fire fight...I ask the question, why go suppressed in the first place if you feel it must come off at sometime? This is by no means an attack on any manufacturer...a well made can is a well made can by any company, but I do take issue with some mounts. When it is all said & done, I'll take a smiple, robust mount that I know will not get knocked loose when bumped around a bit. I also like the counter-balance that the OPS sleeve over design "feels" on the barrel. I don't use other brand X cans or whatever on the job alot, but I do know that OPS is a rock solid mount. I have also seen QD mounts rattle loose on full-auto. Many people don't like OPS's mount, I know, but I also know what works...I'll take smiple every time. In the end, the mounting system is only a fraction of what should dictate why someone buys a particular can, but if QD is picked for "tacticool" only, then whoever that is, is sorely mislead. If someone has a ton of host weapons & only one or two cans, then QD has some merit, but I still wouldn't mind threading it on. To be honest, the entire industry, in my opinion, has gone overboard on QD for every add-on there is. Not to say this is the case, but in some circles of thought, I can just imagine some people thinking that QD allows them to sit back & re-configure as the fight goes on.  maybe I have too wild an imagination!!!
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I like Larue mounts over others not because they are QD, but because the system used in them is much more robust. I bought QD cans because I saw them as having more robust and secure mounting options. My point is that some buy QD cans because they feel the mount is that much more secure (Surefire, new AAC ratchet mount), not for the QD feature. Also, isn't the OPS thread pitch fast enough to be considered "QD"? |
I do not know about military operators as I have not worked for them, but I have worked on PD equipment where they cross threaded thier silencers at the start then wrenched them on continuing to cross thread under great force of channel lock pliers or the equivlent. That would not happen with a QD mount. If I needed a silencer mounted in the field I would hate to jame one up cross threaded ensuring baffle strikes and point of aim no where I needed it. |
The civilian (non-special forces night raid commando types) population is far more concerned with baffle strikes from suppressor droop (silly word, I know) than on and off and some of the other things you mentioned. You have very valid points in your post, but 99 people out of 100 won't be adjusting night vision, IR lasers, and the like on a life and death mission overseas. Most people stand around at a range shooting paper targets. QD is simple to understand and fairly difficult to mess up and usually helps prevent the silencer becoming unscrewed during firing that could result in the dreaded baffle strike. It has always tickled me to see people making purchasing decisions based on needs they will never have. While I guess it’s a bit more expensive if you want to mount to multiple hosts, QD is a great thing. |
I don't think those critical of OPS's mount would consider it QD, but yes, they thread very fast. But again, my point is...how fast does anyone really need it? |
I can respect that worry, but a baffel strike wouldn't throw you off that much...you could still get verrified center mass hits if you absolutely had to. tight groups might be out of the question, but....you take what you can get in SHTF. Plus, you always have your secondary (yes pistol...yeah I know, but any rifle could go down any time, if your main goes it goes) Were these OPS cans that they did this to? All I've ever done is give it a good tight twist, the collar & break seems to do the rest. |
Well said, in the end buy a can & mount that fits your needs. |
Don't know, but each set of ears are different in what they hear. I for one can shoot suppressed SBRs all day without a ringing in my ears while others on my team can't...just go with a reputable company, & you can't go wrong. |
I kind of figured that Steve what are the best OPS cans for SBR's I see you have more of them listed on your site than OPS does on their own site. |
If you want short and light get the 14th If db reduction is your main concern, get the 16th If you want to split the difference get the 15th I have a 14th on my 11.5" its short, light and I have to wear ear plugs with ANY can on a SBR so db reduction istn a big deal to me. On my 18" SPR I have a 12th model which I can comfortably shoot without ear plugs. |
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The AAC SCAR-SD I shot made my ears ring so, I would not consider any can in that class. An M4-2000 works on any AR-15 but, you defeat the purpose of an SBR if you put the longest possible suppressor on it. I tend to think an AAC OMNI is a good compromise for most people with the mount, sound reduction, and size. Myself, I will most likely get an AAC SPR/M4 model and use a 16 to 18 inch barrel. What will I do with a 12 to 14.5 inch barrel? ... hmmm .... |
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