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Posted: 2/22/2002 11:24:48 PM EDT
I am considering units from KAC, Gemtech & B&T/CCF Swiss, and need some fact-based info. &/or personal opinions. The suppressors of interest will be for both my M4gery (.223 cal) & USP (.45 cal). I have narrowed the selection for each gun down to 2 choices, as follows:

.223 cal suppressor options
1) Gemtech "M4QD" - These have an excellent reputation, and a unique, user-friendly "bi-lock attachment mechanism.

2) KAC "QD" - Currently used by the USMil, but I've never seen these firsthand. Are they as robust as the KAC .45 unit?

.45 cal suppressor options
1) KAC - These are also in use by the USMil, and having just handled one today, I was impressed with their robust, all steel construction. Also, I like the index adjustment feature. Except for access to/removal of the Nielsen device, they can not be dissassembled further.

2) B&T/CCF Swiss - These are reputed to be excellent, can be completely disassembled for cleaning, and have machined baffles, the one nearest the bbl. being inconel. Also has an index adjustment feature. One concern is that the outer tube is made if aluminum instead of steel. Another is that H&K states that use of the CCF Swiss voids the warranty. The Swiss mfg'd B&T is warrantied by H&K, but its CCF Swiss copy, made here in the US, is not. Only KAC's unit is.

If you were faced with the same issues in both cases, how/what would you choose?
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 8:33:11 PM EDT
For the .223 suppressor I would definately go for the Gemtech if price were no object. Gemtech is the Cadillac of suppressors and Doc Dater knows his stuff. The suppression for the Gemtech is awesome.

Sorry, I can't help much on the .45's.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 9:54:29 PM EDT
I concur on the Gemtech for the .223. I myself am looking to get a M4-96D for my M4orgery.

I have heard that the CCF suppressors are excelent as well, and I had no clue they'd void an HK warranty. I was thinking about buying a Tactical barrel for my USP45 and buying the CCF, actually. I may have to rethink that now.

Contact Larry at www.ccfa.com and see what he has to say about the warranty issue.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 4:45:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2002 6:42:49 PM EDT by Master_Blaster]
I received a reply from Larry at CCF Swiss regarding the H&K warranty issue. In full, here's his reply:


Basically a political thing...Simple answer is there have been no warranty issues with HK pistols using our suppressors...That extra weight on the KAC also exceeds the max allowable mass the USP's polymer frame will tolerate, which leads to the fact that the reason it doesn't void the warranty is because of politics...


Decide for yourselves whether this is an issue. It seems that they make a really good suppressor. My own dealer actually T&E'd various makes and calibers, and he favors B&T/CCFSwiss for the .45 & Gemtech for the .223 cal. I only wish this topic had generated more advice, but I guess I'm one of the lucky few who can entertain possessing one.

Any additional thoughts out there?
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 10:29:39 PM EDT
I do not think there was ever an issue with the Socom pistol, but when the lighter tactical came out everyone and thier dog built a silencer for them and the gun just broke apart. That lead HK to authorise only a couple of manufacturers.

If B+T US made suppressors are working fine and so good then why not ask them if they will cover breakage of the HK weapon while using one of thier suppressors.
Link Posted: 2/25/2002 4:48:47 AM EDT


This was my choice... I just didn't like the aluminum tube of the CCF. And the warranty issue sealed it for me.

QS
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 9:24:41 PM EDT
A quick up-to-date for anyone interested: I called HK and queried the reasoning regarding their warranty issues with the CCF Swiss clone. The reason given was that the CCF had not been tested by their engineers; that even though it is a copy of the B&T design, its manufacture by CCF Swiss, rather than B&T, means it is a different supressor product, copy or not.

I am having a little difficuly deciding, even though I will admit I like the B&T design. Any operators out there want to weigh in on this?
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 3:51:23 AM EDT
I have a Gemtech M4-96D. My next supressor will be a Triple-X from Mike Klos (American Manufacturing.)

I do like the Gemtech, but for each weapon you wish to use the can on, you will need a bilock installed. Each bilock is around 85 dollars and they have to be installed properly. I had to ship my upper to Gemtech and have them install the bilock. $40 more dollars. A bayonet won't fit anymore. Not that it really matters but...

Link Posted: 2/27/2002 6:07:06 AM EDT
Did you look at the Tac-Ord MS-556? With the M.I.R.S. (similar to the Gemlock, but better) it's a great suppressor and quick to attach & remove. The owner was a former partner at Gemtech & knows his stuff. I love mine!! The coyotes seem to dislike it however!
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