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Posted: 2/5/2002 11:17:14 AM EDT
I say nuthin' beats 00buckshot, 2 3/4", max load through an 18" barrel (that's what is sitting in my closet.) My dad, on the other hand, sayz that ordinary birdshot (#6,#5,#4) works just as well at close range w/o going through the wall. However, having been zinged by birdshot on account of idiot hunters (it hurt like hell, but didn't even break the skin), I seriously doubt that. And the problem w/ slugs is that you have to aim.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:21:53 AM EDT
The best one is the one in your hand when you need it.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:35:52 AM EDT
Well, I use Custom Loads.

I take anything that looks like it would hurt: Tacks, Pellets, etc...and load them all into a 3" Magnum 12 Gauge Shell. I have also loaded some larger Buckshot than #000. Take Musket Balls and drop a few into a 3" Shell on top of the Wad and crimp it. I have done this with .375" Lead Balls. #000 is .36" if I remember correctly. You can also do it with .44 and .50 Lead Balls. Or, if you really want to, try a couple of .69 Musket Balls or a few of .54 or .58 Musket Balls.

Adding tacks is supposed to cut em up better. I use Pellets in my loads also since they will likely tumble through the body because they aren't round. Ball bearings also work. Take several Ball Bearings and drop into a 3" Shell. Ball Bearings are harder than Buck Shot and will probably penetrate more.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:39:51 AM EDT

...the problem w/ slugs is that you have to aim.


It is just as important to aim with buckshot as it is with slugs. Inside a dwelling, distances are usually so close that the pattern diameter with buckshot is very small (measured in inches, not feet). The term "scattergun" can be misleading.

I load mine with 00 Buck (reduced recoil), and I keep some reduced recoil slugs in a side saddle, FWIW...

SAB
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 1:32:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 1:45:12 PM EDT
For home defense you do not need max loads unless there will be no one in the houe but you and the dead guy.....
Reduced recoil will stil do the job and let you get back on target quicker.
Have you ever fired a shotgun in a room???
Enclosed areas are so much louder than regular its amazing.
With wife and children I dont think I would pic the old 12ga a 1st choice.

Axeldawg
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 3:03:59 PM EDT
I vote for #4 Buck (0.24") to #4 birdshot (0.129"). Bigger than #4 buck invites overpenetration of walls, and smaller than #4 bird risks insufficient penetration of the perp. For inside the house, I'd stay away from magnum cartridges. My Mossberg 590 has a Speedfeed stock, and I keep four .50 caliber sabot deer slugs in it just in case I feel it necessary to disable a vehicle.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 3:16:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 3:17:47 PM EDT by 91101]
My Mossberg 500 Cruiser is loaded with (in order of firing) one rubber buckshot, two #4 Turkey loads, two #4 buckshot, and two 00 buckshot. I thought about putting a slug in as the anchor untill I fired one through this gun... F'n brutal....
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 7:41:23 PM EDT
Since there is no one in the house but me and the dog, I use a combination of 00 buck and slugs, both reduced recoil. My 870 is light in weight and very heavy on recoil, and with only a t-shirt or less I think full mag loads would be more than needed. I mean, the idea is to hurt the BAD GUYS!!
If I were using my Benelli, I might use full mag loads though.
I would prefer to be ABLE to shoot through walls if necessary.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:12:53 PM EDT
The Mossberg 500 is loaded with first two rounds #4 personal defense, next 3 00 buck, all 2.75".

The sidesaddle carries 2 more #4 and 4 more 00 buck.

18.5" cylinder bore.

Ray
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:39:59 PM EDT
1st round is Dragon's Breath, so I can see what's happenin'.
2nd round is a bird bomb, just to keep the confusion on my side.
3rd & 4th rounds are flechettes, so I can shoot 'em in the ass without killin' 'em when they run out the door...
5th round is unnecessary.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:57:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cc48510:
Well, I use Custom Loads.

I take anything that looks like it would hurt: Tacks, Pellets, etc...and load them all into a 3" Magnum 12 Gauge Shell. I have also loaded some larger Buckshot than #000. Take Musket Balls and drop a few into a 3" Shell on top of the Wad and crimp it. I have done this with .375" Lead Balls. #000 is .36" if I remember correctly. You can also do it with .44 and .50 Lead Balls. Or, if you really want to, try a couple of .69 Musket Balls or a few of .54 or .58 Musket Balls.

Adding tacks is supposed to cut em up better. I use Pellets in my loads also since they will likely tumble through the body because they aren't round. Ball bearings also work. Take several Ball Bearings and drop into a 3" Shell. Ball Bearings are harder than Buck Shot and will probably penetrate more.



That works great until you actually have to shoot someone with it.... then you'll be taken to court and sued for wrongful death by a cruel and inhumane means.

I'll stick with a standard... something I can argue (who am I kidding... my lawyer can argue) is an industry standard that you'll find in any police cruiser with a shotgun.

My two favorites are Federal "00" Tactical Low Recoil and Remington Low Recoil Slugs.... Different colors for quick ID if it's light out (ID by touch in the dark) Low recoil so you are back on target fast. They work great in both my 590A1 and my Benelli M1 Super 90 and at 25 yards or less they are plenty lethal for all "house goblins"
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:09:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:50:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
#1 Buck is the best round if you're going by strict terminal ballistics. However, when you are shooting within your own home, you'll have concerns that don't exist on a battlefield or in the forest.
-Troy



I agree on this load. Harder to find than 00 or 000 but I like it. A few Brenneke slugs too!
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:05:38 AM EDT
Heavy buckshot
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 1:50:03 PM EDT
As far as recoil goes, I've put enough max 00 through my 870 express magnum, that I don't even think about it any more. Reacquisition isn't much of a problem, either. Odds are that if someone was gutsy enough to enter my house, I'de have advance warning and wind up shooting across the hall, with a considerable pattern spread (approx. 8-12" in diameter) (2.25 dogs and a really noisy cockatiel outdo any store-bought alarm system) But given the number of people in my house at anyonme time, I've been thinking of switching to something lighter.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 2:04:31 PM EDT
Has anyone looked into the effectiveness of fletchlete loads? I've seen them advetised a couple of times and it seams like that would be very effective.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 4:55:12 PM EDT
I load 2 rounds of #4 or 5 bunny shot (for the closeups), 3 rounds of 00 buck (for the portraits) and the rest are 1 oz. rifled slugs for chasing them down the driveway and road...
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:27:45 PM EDT
First shot Magnum Steel BB, The ones after that are 00 Buck Max load.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:30:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:06:18 PM EDT
The above Shotgun loading was for the Charles Daly Riot Gun I keep close to the bedside at night. I also keep two Blackhawk 55 round Bandoleers, One hidden in a nitch in the front hallway, by the front door, and anouther in a soft sided, black briefcase with a SW99/40 w/ four spare pistol mags, a quick clip UM-84 holster and mag pouches.

The blackhawk Bandoleers may look like you are trying to play Pancho Villa, But you cannot beat them when the situation is moving to fast to do anything, but throw one over your shoulder and run.

I keep the Bandoleeres loaded with 35 rounds of 00 Max load, 15 1 1/2oz hollowpiont slugs, 5 rounds of steel BB.

I turn Slugs one way and 00 the other for quick tactile finds in the dark or when I do not want to look down at the Bandoleer while loading.

I live in Oklahoma, Where the 120 year ice storm just knocked off the electric power for a quarter of a million people (many places still have not got the power back on as I write this.)

To be real honest, Things got really weird here, with the power off for four days. Alot of Fights in gasoline lines of the few stations that were open, Supermarket shelves empty in a few hours, No cell or land line phone service, No heat. Alot of people here, just flat had no idea what to do with no power, and in a few places people got ugly.

My ARs stayed in the safe during this little disaster, But I found that riot gun my constant companion around the house (by candle light) and in the trunk, during the whole ordeal.

lets face it, when your apt compex is so dark you cannot see your hand in front of your face, That $189 18" riot gun starts to look like your very favorite gun all of the sudden.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:08:20 PM EDT
Rock salt.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 7:46:40 PM EDT
Damn you. Unfortunately, I'm Shit out of luck on getting any of these. Florida bans Incindiary Ammuniton (Dragon's Breaths Fall Under This Definition), Exploding Ammounition (I'm Not Sure if Bird Bombs Fall Under This Definition), Some Bolos (Depends on how they are tied together), and Flachettes.

So, I custom load. Basically, I cannot have anything that shoots flames, explodes, or Contains Flachettes. I can get away with tacks, razors, etc...since these do not meet the definition of a Flachette.


Originally Posted By BusMaster007:
1st round is Dragon's Breath, so I can see what's happenin'.
2nd round is a bird bomb, just to keep the confusion on my side.
3rd & 4th rounds are flechettes, so I can shoot 'em in the ass without killin' 'em when they run out the door...
5th round is unnecessary.

Link Posted: 2/12/2002 9:44:00 AM EDT
Well, it's official... Heavy buckshot wins overwhelmingly, unless the Florida Supreme Court would like to add a few extra votesh.gif...

See yall in the funny pages
Link Posted: 2/12/2002 10:23:49 AM EDT
Imagine a 12ga. Glaser Slug. Too bad the don't make'em. That would probably be like a canister shell going off...inside the body.
Link Posted: 2/12/2002 10:34:49 AM EDT
Any load of shot, from #12 to OOO buck, is going to be HIGHLY effective at hallway encounter ranges. The larger stuff will be progressively worse news for people behind a wall you might hit, while the smaller stuff creates soup where flesh used to be at short range. I'd say that I personally would rely on #6 or #8 birdshot if I relied on a shotgun for home defense, because if I tag someone at hallway battle ranges with that, it's going to macerate a lot of tissue and it's going to hurt like unholy hell. I trust larger shot LESS to deliver that type of instantly disabling injury. Plus the lower chance of overpenetration on walls and windows is a definite positive, as well. If you must kill an intruder, try to avoid taking a neighbor with him. Your neighbors will appreciate your thoughtfulness, be assured.


The victim also has less of a chance of surviving an injury where small shot has pulped something vital, rather than just perforate it with a few larger holes. I can assure you, if I have to shoot someone in self-defense, I WILL shoot with intent to kill and not merely wound. No way in hell I'll let some scumbag SUE my ass off after being disabled by me when trying to ROB me. Maybe his family may try, but not the robber. Not from a grave.

CJ

Link Posted: 2/12/2002 10:36:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By slt223:
Imagine a 12ga. Glaser Slug. Too bad the don't make'em. That would probably be like a canister shell going off...inside the body.



I would love to see that!! It would look something like this
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:12:13 AM EDT
BRI 12ga 50cal sabot slug,there won't be any need for a follow-up
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:33:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2002 11:36:51 AM EDT by cmjohnson]
How about loading a few of these monsters into 3" magnum shells with custom sabots and a custom triplex load going for ultra high velocities, say maybe 4000 FPS out of a heavy slug barrel?




By the way, that's a 25mm discarding sabot round for an Oerlikon KBB chain gun...




CJ
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 12:08:49 PM EDT
Nothing beats #4 Buck when it's up close and personal. Even an 18" cylinder bore barrel shoots a tight pattern at home defense range so shot placement is critical. I don't subscribe to the reduced recoil shells so my preference is max load 3" magnums - 41 / .22 cal pellets will cause massive damage. I "test fired" one of these into an armadillo at about 10 feet - ever put an egg in a microwave?
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