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Posted: 12/23/2001 1:54:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2001 4:25:12 PM EDT by M4Madness]
Well, guys, I just witnessed an accidental discharge for the first (and hopefully last) time. A neighbor of mine stripped his Remington 552 Speedmaster .22LR down to clean it as it wasn't functioning correctly. He couldn't figure out how to reassemble it and brought over a pile of parts for me to figure out. Man, what a difficult task to put together a rifle that you had never fieldstripped before. Anyway, after MUCH trial and error, I got the damned thing put back together. He started loading a few in the tube magazine, as he wanted to hand-cycle a few through it to check the functioning. I asked him to do that outside as soon as I noticed what he was doing. By that time he was trying to cycle some and complaining how none of the shells would load into the chamber. They would be stripped from the tube mag only to jam like the barrel was blocked. After each unsuccessful try to chamber one, he would eject it and try again. After the mag was empty, he pulled the trigger. Any fool can probably guess what happened next. BLAM!!! Right through my ceiling. The damn gun wouldn't chamber a round because one was ALREADY in it! We were damn lucky that he didn't shoot himself, me, or my wife in the next room. He went outside again and it was still not functioning properly, so I told him to take it to a gunsmith 10 minutes from here and quit f***ing around with something that is beyond his capabilities. At least all I have to worry about is climbing up on the roof tomorrow and trying to find a very small hole and tar it up.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 2:02:19 PM EDT
There is no such thing as an "accidental" discharge, only negligent ones.

He was negligent in his gun handling when he didn't confirm his weapon was clear.

You are very lucky. I would watch him very carefully from now on and if he made another error even remotely close to this one I would choose not to spend any more time with him.

It only takes one time....
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 2:07:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2001 2:06:19 PM EDT by Ric_A]
I know how ya feel,over the Thanksgiving holiday I had an AK-74 accedently discharge and it shot thriught the back cargo area of my brand new Nissan Xterra then it went throught the gas tank after it went through the back floor then since the AK74 round is a "Spitzer tip" it reflected through the gas tank and came back up into the back seat,thank god noone was sitting back there or else they would have an extra a$$hole,a very good lesson learned and a patched gas tank came out of it, I hope you fix your roof okay,good luck!

"IF YOUR ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION ,YOUR ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!" -Join the NRA!
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 2:33:34 PM EDT
Jeez what a jackass. I would have wrapped that idiot's rifle around his freakin' neck.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 3:29:58 PM EDT
Pulling the trigger is not an accidental discharge.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 3:43:59 PM EDT
What Chuck said.

You definitely handled that much nicer then I would of. Good luck.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 3:50:03 PM EDT
Hey, Shit happens and then you have to look back and laugh. Wonder if he knows that dry firing a rim fire will cause his problem. The firingpin beats on the lip of the chamber. Cause a baulgh of medal to form inside. You have to take a good round file and remove this baulgh adn then everything will work fine.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 3:58:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Maynard:
There is no such thing as an "accidental" discharge, only negligent ones.

DITTO
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 4:11:35 PM EDT
Better take all his weapons away before he kills someone. Then send him to a hunters safety course. Hopefully he will learn something.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 4:18:44 PM EDT
Mistake #1, offering to play gunsmith for a neighbor. Make him take his own shit to a pro.

Mistake #2, hand-cycling live rounds. You know they make dummy action proof rounds for this.

Mistake #3, muzzle control, he nailed the ceiling. Was that intentional or just where it was pointing?

Mistake #4, PULLING THE TRIGGER, WTF was he doing?, confirming his assumption that all rounds were clear?

Mistake #5, not visually inspecting and double checking the action and the chamber before even thinking about pulling the trigger.

I doubt if your neighbor is any wiser for the experience, I hope you are.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 4:33:12 PM EDT
I am in complete agreement with Maynard. There is no such thing as an "ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE". There is also no such thing as an "ACCIDENTAL SHOOTING". Negligent or careless, but not accidental.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 4:37:15 PM EDT
Lucky it wasn't a bigger caliber,and no one was hurt. What a shmuck
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 5:45:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrassII:
Hey, Shit happens and then you have to look back and laugh. Wonder if he knows that dry firing a rim fire will cause his problem. The firingpin beats on the lip of the chamber. Cause a baulgh of medal to form inside. You have to take a good round file and remove this baulgh adn then everything will work fine.



I don't think anybody's gonna laugh a whole lot after this one. If they do, they need bitch slapped. Probably a lot of Hail Marys and fervent prayers of thanks every time this thought returns.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 6:00:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dolphin72:
I am in complete agreement with Maynard. There is no such thing as an "ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE".



Then what do you call a fart?
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 7:01:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrassII:
Hey, Shit happens and then you have to look back and laugh. Wonder if he knows that dry firing a rim fire will cause his problem. The firingpin beats on the lip of the chamber. Cause a baulgh of medal to form inside. You have to take a good round file and remove this baulgh adn then everything will work fine.



You should really take some time and think about your posts before you hit the send button.

An unintentional discharge of a firearm inside a dwelling is nothing to "look back and laugh about." Such a cavalier attitude is what gets people killed and gives responsible gun owners a bad name.

It takes one mistake to ruin your life or someone else's life forever, there are no second chances when handling firearms and I will not tolerate those around me not abiding by the proper gun handling rules. Neither should you or anyone else for that matter. It is no laughing matter


We need all the responsible gun owner types we can get.

Link Posted: 12/23/2001 7:07:37 PM EDT
I wouldn't be laughing, I'd be getting some clean drawers. What on earth were you chambering live rounds INSIDE for?
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 7:14:10 PM EDT


Originally Posted By mrassII:
Hey, Shit happens and then you have to look back and laugh. Wonder if he knows that dry firing a rim fire will cause his problem. The firingpin beats on the lip of the chamber. Cause a baulgh of medal to form inside. You have to take a good round file and remove this baulgh adn then everything will work fine.



I agree with Maynard, If shit happens, it's because you invite to. With this kind of attitude, please stay the heck away from me.

WTF is a baulgh? Kind of whale?
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 7:17:25 PM EDT
I had a friend try to clear a jam from a beretta 92fs (wolf ammo with not enough power to push the slide back all the way combined with a limp wristed shooting style). Anyway the idiot did not activate the safety and tried to "push" the slide open, not pull with the weapon pointed downrange. A fresh round chambered and he pulled the trigger while he still had the muzzel pointed into his palm. BIG black spot on his palm and a three inch exit tear in the meat where you would karate chop someone. This guy was f*!)ing lucky cause he missed the bone and only bruised the nerve, no loss of function or anything. We all learned a lot that trip. I was lucky cause right before he did it I was standing next to him. Kinda puts the fear of god in you.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 8:30:23 PM EDT
May local indoor range had such a discharge with a slide-action IMI Timber Wolf(I think). A customer was finish shooting, and returned to friend. My friend rack the slide, pulled the trigger, nothing happen; he racked the slide a second-time, and pulled the trigger, BLAM! A round was stuck in the mag tube.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 8:40:06 PM EDT
Hey bud, I would have to blame you, for letting this moron load a firearm in your home, a definite NO! NO!, then you let him cycle the damn thing. You very very lucky.

Waterdog
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 8:51:31 PM EDT
I had just finished cleaning, then loading, my Beratta 92FS when a friend came over. I kept that one gun loaded because I lived in a bad area of town. (I had to "show it off" once when a hostile drunk walked in my door and decided he lived there, didn't have to fire it). Anyway, the "friend" walks into my room just as I finish and my roomate calls me from the living room. I put the gun on my bed and tell him "Don't touch that, it's loaded". By the time I am in the hallway I hear it go off. F-cking idiot says he didn't think it would fire!!! I chewed him out, kicked him out of the house and never spoke to him again. I heard he joined the Marines shortly after that - scary. Negligence and stupidity, some of it mine because I had assumed he was smarter than that.

The only other "accidental discharge" that happened in my presence was truly accidental. A friend and I were shooting (my AR and his M16). He stops, puts his gun on safe, and about 15-20 seconds later it goes off, hitting the ground about a yard from him. No finger on the trigger. Of course he is shocked and before he can react it goes off again. They were cooking off in the chamber, and it was -8 degrees F that day. Says something for "Always keep a firearm pointed in a safe direction." I am sure he will be clearing his chamber from now on as well.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 1:45:04 AM EDT
Hey mrassII, aren't you the same guy who shot out his picture window because you "forgot" the gun was loaded, and who defended the hunter in WI who shot and killed the lady out walking her dog because he thought she was a deer? You keep defending these kind of irresponsible actions with a cavalier "shit happens" then you'd better get your nomex on because you're going to be flamed. Stop and think about why most other people on this board don't agree with you. You should let what you read here sink in and learn something from it.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 2:15:48 AM EDT
You all are right... There is no such thing as Accidental...

I was the offending party one time, through a series of total coincidences I fucked up... It was my first and LAST TIME... After cleaning my AMT Hardballer which was having feed problems I cycled a mag though and it seemed to be working great. So I cycled another mag though... I pulled the slide back a few times to make sure the chamber was clear but I did not make a "brass" check. Unfortunately because I didn't check, I failed to see that the last round from the mag stuck in the throat of the chamber and the extractor didn't pick it up. SO thinking the weapon was clear I went to uncock the weapon, because of gun oil or whatever my thumb slipped off the hammer about half way down... The weapon discharged and went through my wall... A series of stupid mistakes cost me big time.

A story for everyone to remember; I was lucky but it took a hard lesson and lets say I never ever will "miss" a step now.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 6:52:18 AM EDT
I used to hunt and shoot with one of my local friends who had some serious safety issues. We'd hunt and several times I found him walking around with his safety off-intentionally, it turned out. he said not to worry, his finger wasn't on the trigger. I told him if I saw it agein I was done hunting with him. We shot at the range a few times and he was simply unsafe. Then he'd bring his kids and "teach" them. Truly scary. I just quit going anywhere with him where guns were present. He's got both his kids and wife shooting now. Very bad mix, I can tell you. I figure its just a matter of time before one of them gets shot.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 7:46:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 1:36:00 PM EDT
Did you ever bother to track the path of the bullet to check for injury or other people's property damage? You have much more to worry than your darn roof.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 2:20:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2001 6:07:57 AM EDT by M4Madness]

Originally Posted By stator:
Did you ever bother to track the path of the bullet to check for injury or other people's property damage? You have much more to worry than your darn roof.



It angled through the roof to the southwest. The property beyond for the first mile is a farm with no houses and beyond that is timber owned by a paper-manufacturing company. Beyond that, an old quarry operation. There are no houses southwest of me for 4.5 miles (according to my topographical map). I believe that I am covered on that aspect, luckily.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 7:07:41 PM EDT
A year ago, I watched my GF's dad put a load of 20 gauge birdshot into the ground 2" from his foot, right as my brain was telling me to yell at him not to have his action closed if he wasnt on the firing line.

I should have been paying more attention, as it was two newbies (GF and her dad) and I, with me trying to teach them how to shoot clays with two shotguns (his and mine). In hindsight, I should have only allowed one shotgun to be uncased at one time, as both my GF and her dad were the type of person that just had to play with anything they could get their hands on, and neither had taken a gun safety course.

I was helping him with his aim and swing and throwing a few slow pigeons. He had said he was out of ammo and walked back to the table to load up, so I started helping my GF with her stance (using the other shotgun), only to see him close the action of his Mossberg and fiddle with the safety out of the corner of my eye without his glasses on (he is practically blind without them, who knows why he took them off, his glasses were both protective and corrective). We all got quite a wakeup call when he was covered with dirt as I was starting to think about how to get him to stop what he was doing without causing him to look at me, as I was worried he would sweep me while trying to find the source of the shout, since he couldnt see squat.

Later, I found out that without his glasses, he couldnt read the lettering on the last shell in the magazine, so he thought it was the follower (as this was the first time he had used the gun) and that the gun was empty after trying to clear what he thought was a dud, which was really a new shell sitting on the feed ramp when he had the action open, he didnt see the old one eject so he dumped the shell in question into his hand thinking it was a dud that hadnt ejected properly. What an experience.

Kharn
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 10:55:25 PM EDT
well, as reasonable people we can all agree that at least, we learn from these mistakes and it helps all of us to be safer. on the other hand, i have a story for you about a friend who never quite learned and it took two incidents for me to realize he was an idiot. the first time, we were quail hunting, i was leading, i heard a blast and a puff of dirt hit the back of my leg. yeah. couple years later, he moved to a crappy part of town and asked to borrow one of my pistols for a while because he was scared, so i of course let him. hes an adult so dont preach about how its my friggen responsibility. anyway, he called me saying that it malfunctioned and caused the hole in his leg. it didnt, he was stoned and showing it to his girlfriend.
you can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you cant pick your friends nose.
the way i see it is that no one is error free, your buddy made a mistake, is probably embarrassed as hell and will most likely be the safest gun owner you know. unless its the same guy that almost killed me then your outta luck.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 11:54:41 PM EDT
I'm going to have to go against the grain somewhat. There are such things as accidental discharges. This particular incident was not one of them, but I think unintented discharges due to slamfires, malfunction, defective ammo, etc. can be classified as accidental. But if your finger was on the trigger, it's negligent.
Link Posted: 12/25/2001 5:45:43 AM EDT
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