Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 12/18/2001 10:46:38 PM EDT
After owning and foolishly selling my first AR, (a post-ban Bushmaster), I am now in the market for another rifle. I'm sure the Bushmaster vs. Colt debate has been beat to death. Most everyone agrees that Colt is the better pre-ban and Bushmaster is better post. While mine was perfect, a few Bushies I've looked at lately left a little to be desired. Some finishes were poor and some seemed to have very loose uppers. I guess the main thing I would like to know is what are the major differences between these two rifles (post-ban) other than a chrome-lined bore? I understand that Bushmaster has remained mil-spec while Colt has not. What exactly has Colt changed? Do the changes make it difficult or impossible to get parts for it? Someone please enlighten me on post-ban Colts. Thanks in advance, Shane
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 10:57:03 PM EDT
Newer Colts have larger hammer and trigger pins, larger pivot pins that must be unscrewed to disassemble the rifle, and a sear block in the lower to prevent anyone from converting to full auto. Plus they cost more but you actually don't get a better rifle. I'd stick with Bushmaster, Armalite, or maybe Rock River Arms if I were buying a new AR nowadays.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 11:04:09 PM EDT
So, let me guess. You'd have to order these parts from Colt, right? And, does that mean that you cannot replace uppers or lowers with another brand?
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 11:04:30 PM EDT
I think some Colts may still have chromed bores - but some don't. From what I've heard, all Colts do have chromed chambers (and chamber erosion is the big wear factor).

I've seen many Bushies look as good as Colts, and are just as tight. I've seen sloppy fitting Colts too. Colts take non-milspec hammer & trigger pins. However, I've never seen a purple Colt but occasionally Bushies come out with a purple hue.

If you want a chromed barrel and tight fit and nice finish, look at an Armalite. My AR10 (.308 AR) is sweet - and has a nice trigger.
.223 Armalite ARs appear to match this quality.

Fit of upper to lower is not really important - the upper does all the work. It's just a satisfaction thing. An "AccuWedge" can stop thes slight wobbles however.


Link Posted: 12/18/2001 11:08:42 PM EDT
current Colts have standard sized front pivot pins. Large pins havent been used since early 1993.

Unfortunately Colt has used a plastic shot filled buffer and a plastic trap door hinge in recent years.

Preban colts are great. Early Colt Match Targets (1994-1996) are great.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 7:56:52 AM EDT
So I could put another brand of upper on my Colt lower?
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:03:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 1:26:40 PM EDT
Well, I guess it doesn't matter as I found me a new Bushie today. It's an A3 shorty carbine, just like my last one minus the muzzle brake. Yay! But I'm still curious about the differences in the Colt rifles. Thanks for all your input.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 2:26:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShootinShane:
So I could put another brand of upper on my Colt lower?




I wasn't aware that Colt had returned their civi rifles to the standard pivot pin - good to know, AR15fan.

SS, to answer your question, yes you can install other brand uppers on Colt lowers and vise versa (sp?). If it is one of the Colt's with the large pivot screw, you have to buy an adapter pin, no big deal. The trigger group parts are more expensive, simply because they fit Colt. Even if they are made by outside vendors such as Bushmaster, the Colt type trigger group costs more and must be used in most civilian Colt lowers because they have larger hammer and trigger pins. All other brands use mil-spec pin diameters.
Hope this helps....
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 2:58:38 PM EDT
current COLTs (post) have chrome linned bores as well shane, whether marked on the barrel or not, all military contract barrels (new or old) do...take a look inside ANY post ban COLT barrel and see it 4 your self if you don't believe me.
HUNTER FROM ARGENTINA
OUT.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 4:47:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 5:39:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
- Colt's military barrels (20" A2, 14.5" M4, and most 16" M4) barrels are fully chrome-lined. Most others have only chromed chambers.

-Troy


exactly what i wanted to say, oh well, those are my pitiful attempts to speak english
HUNTER FROM ARGENTINA
OUT.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 7:25:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:

- You can install any standard upper on a post-ban Colt (though, of course, if the upper puts the "evil features" count over 1, the gun is illegal). The only uppers that won't without and adapter fit are Colt pre-ban-era uppers.

-Troy



Troy, or anyone, could you explain a bit more about this adapter. I have a pre ban Colt upper (neutered) and post ban colt lower which has that nice little crack of light in between the upper and lower. Is this "adapter" for removing this little gap by chance? If so, where could I get one? Even more so, if there is no such product, is there a way to get a better fit?
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:05:29 PM EDT
Thanks, guys. This is great info. I was under the impression that Colt had really deviated from the standard mil-spec. A different trigger group isn't that big of a deal as long as the parts are available. I was just curious as my dealer didn't have the particular Bushie I was looking for, but did have a few Colts and I was tempted. I noticed they cost about $100.00 more (I guess that little horsie on them is going to cost you extra) and I wasn't sure I wanted to invest in one, especially if it was going to be a Frankenstein. Regardless, I found another great Bushie and I'm happy 'cause I can now use that extra $100.00 on something else.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 10:13:50 PM EDT
It's strange. I have a pre-ban Colt Sporter Match HBAR that has mil-spec trigger parts and standard size front pivot, but I've been told that Sporter Match rifles weren't made in that configuration. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that Colt doesn't have any clue what configuration they produced their rifles in.

I had a post-ban Colt Match Target that was a tackdriver. I traded it plus $400 for the pre-ban I have now, kind of sorry I did that. That rifle was excellent. It had a chrome chamber, but no chrome in the bore, which accounted for it's superb accuracy.

Personally, if I were in the market to buy a post-ban AR-15 now I'd go with the Armalite. Many of the Bushmasters I've seen have downright ugly finishes, plus I've heard they are having service related problems. I inquired with Bushmaster about their M4 upper and they didn't seem to want to give me the time of day. I tried email, snail mail, and phone calls, didn't get responses to mail and the person I talked to on the phone had no answers and wouldn't transfer me to somebody who could answer my questions.

Armalite has a fellow posting on this board (he's the moderator of the AR-10 forum) and they seem to have an excellent quality product from everything I've seen that they have produced.

OK, after that rambling diatribe the basic gist of my post is that I own and love Colts, but would recommend the Armalite to any buyer.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 6:36:52 AM EDT
If Colt's were the same price as other brands, that would be one thing. But usually they carry a premium for no other reason than the Colt logo. In MY OPINION, they are lower quality and can become annoying with different size pins, sear block, etc. So, stick with American Spirit Arms, Bushmaster, Cavalry Arms, & Armalite. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. No bashing please.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 6:52:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Green_Furniture:
All I know is that since I got my RRA LEGP my Armalite and Colt are real jealous. Hell, my buddy's brand new Bushy is jealous too! RRA is making one hell of an AR.



Roger that! Love my post-ban LE Tactical CAR.
(MUST be tactical, its BLACK!)
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:51:35 PM EDT
There is no reason not to buy one, Wah Wah Wah, plastic this, dont like this , cost more, not! You all have sorry ass reasons, but no dipshit here complains, my plastic triggerguard on my factory bushie. Colts are the same price its the vender jacking it up.
GG
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 5:15:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gun Guru:
There is no reason not to buy one, Wah Wah Wah, plastic this, dont like this , cost more, not! You all have sorry ass reasons, but no dipshit here complains, my plastic triggerguard on my factory bushie. Colts are the same price its the vender jacking it up.
GG




Well, even if they were CHEAPER, I would not buy a Colt simply because of their political sell-out. Nevertheless, Colt's cost more, regardless of the reason. And the trigger guard is of no consequence, nor is the pin type. I've owned at least 6 different Colt's, mostly pre-ban. The older ones were good, but the newer ones are not any better, if as good, as a Bushmaster or an Armalite. Why spend more, get less, and have to live with their sell-out?
If you're a Colt fan, that's your perrogative. If you're looking for a good deal on a rifle with which to shoot, well....
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 7:04:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By Gun Guru:
There is no reason not to buy one, Wah Wah Wah, plastic this, dont like this , cost more, not! You all have sorry ass reasons, but no dipshit here complains, my plastic triggerguard on my factory bushie. Colts are the same price its the vender jacking it up.
GG




Well, even if they were CHEAPER, I would not buy a Colt simply because of their political sell-out. Nevertheless, Colt's cost more, regardless of the reason. And the trigger guard is of no consequence, nor is the pin type. I've owned at least 6 different Colt's, mostly pre-ban. The older ones were good, but the newer ones are not any better, if as good, as a Bushmaster or an Armalite. Why spend more, get less, and have to live with their sell-out?
If you're a Colt fan, that's your perrogative. If you're looking for a good deal on a rifle with which to shoot, well....



Political sell out? Please, don't be an ass.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 7:25:20 PM EDT
I can't help being an ass - it just me.
I don't own or buy anything made by S&W either.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 7:39:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:
I can't help being an ass - it just me.
I don't own or buy anything made by S&W either.



How about Ruger? Or Taurus? Own any Remingtons?
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 7:43:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Redmanfms:

Originally Posted By gus:
I can't help being an ass - it just me.
I don't own or buy anything made by S&W either.



How about Ruger? Or Taurus? Own any Remingtons?



Only one Ruger, no POS Taurus's, and several Remingtons. My main beef with Colt is the high price. Their (former?) policy of emphasizing govt/LEO weapons and reducing the number of civi models chapped my ass a little. I didn't follow it too closely since there are abundant alternatives.

What did Remington do?
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 7:56:44 PM EDT
They put that stupid keyed bolt lock on their rifles.

Colt has always emphasized LEO/military sales. Why? Because they make more money and have financial security from a contract until they have filled the orders. Any company in the business of supplying military hardware is going to focus on the military. They just make more money that way. Like it or not, that's the way businesses are run if they want to stay in business.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 8:00:52 PM EDT
If we follow the "don't buy from them because they sold out" process every time something we don't like happened we won't have any gun companies to supply us with firearms.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 8:04:30 PM EDT
Damn! I haven't seen one yet, but i HAD heard that Rem did that. Glad I got my last one before it happened. Then again, so did several other companies (Springfield on their pistols?). I think I'll stick with my "old" guns..

I understand the needs of the business, and have "family ties" with the Colt company of old, but when they announced that policy, it was at least partly in response to the lawsuits that were being filed. That was hard for me to stomach. Another thing that irritated me was Colt's "smart gun" technology. I always thought "smart owners" were much more useful. S&W capitulated as well, but in other ways. Luckily, it looks like the suits have been defeated.
Top Top