Much more user friendly shooting indoors under night vision.  And, if you are like me and have already built 15 ARs in every possible configuration and caliber, different is a good thing.

Subsonic 300 Blk is way more than a pistol caliber.  The long pointed bullets produce penetration miles above anything a pistol caliber could hope to achieve.  I did some testing with a Level 2A vest and a lightweight 150gr subsonic blew through both sides of the vest and the 2x4 it was nailed to, from 100 yds downrange.  No pistol caliber projectile would even penetrate halfway through the front panel of the vest.

Braces.

All the coolest PCCs now would have been scoffed away five years ago for lack of a stock. Braces work good enough for PCC rounds.

Attached File

That’s the best answer there IMO

Seems like a short 9mm AR type with suppressor and 30ish rd mag would be ideal for home defense, especially for those in the suburbs.

Agreed and even the rifle-caliber pistols were only looked at as a novelty without any real application.  With braces, you can actually take advantage of a more stable and accurate platform and pistol calibers are more than adequate for HD.  Besides, I would hate to lose my SBR post shooting incident in my home, but I have more than a few pseudo-SBR pistols on tap if one gets incarcerated for evidence...

ROCK6

The obvious answer is get one of each.  Then you cover all the bases.

I'm still waiting on the Form 4's to come back on my .30 and 9mm suppressors, but that B&T 9mm is probably the most fun to shoot unsuppressed, out of the bunch.

Most have switched to a 10.5" SBR / MK18 style build for CQBR

"Because I can" is the only valid reason today.

I'll stick with what I have.

No.  Supersonic rifle rounds have much better on target performance.

Fragmenting designs like the 75gr Hornady T2 will quickly lose velocity after impacting hard exterior walls.  While it will still be deadly immediately beyond the wall, once it starts to break up it will quickly lose the ability to penetrate.

Pretty much any bullet that provides useful penetration for self defense will penetrate wood and sheetrock walls without immediately failing.  Non barrier blind loads like the T2 should become less lethal faster than pistol, shotgun or barrier blind rifle rounds.

.300 BLK cans are alot heavier and longer than regular pistol cans.  I know you can shoot .300 BLK subs through many 9mm cans but then you cannot just 'pop a new mag' for supers w/o exploding the can.

you have simplicity of 9mm = blowback and therefore no worrying about port hole size, gas system pressure, or adjustable gas blocks, no dicking around you should be able to run the gamut of 9mm: 115 weaksauce, 124 NATO, or 147/158 suppressed or unsuppressed ... blowback dont care.

Compactness of the firearm:
.300 BLK needs 7-10" bbl
9mm is 4-7" bbl
most 9mm stocks/braces fold, .300 BLK ar15s do not, so you can than make them SHORTER
Dedicated 9mm PCCs have very short action lengths vs 556/300 action lengths, even SHORTER

ALl of the above also mean 9mm PCCs have potential to be very light and handy

Also, range friendliness.  you can pop steel at 10 yards safely w 9mm, most ranges wont let you shoot rifle steel at all or it must be >100 yards and most ranges will count 300 BLK as rifle no matter the grain/fps.  9mm PCCs can go to any indoor range.

Lastly, the ammo is much cheaper for 9mm.  100 rounds of factory 300BLK you could have bought 300-1000 9mm.

People who are carrying guns professionally have, for the most part, made the switch. The rest of us are enthusiasts who are beyond practicality. Nobody that "needs," as in "I have no gun and I need something to defend myself with" is buying a $1000+ MP5 as their first firearm.

I will also offer that blowback PPC have less “gas to the face” issues than rifle caliber AR shorties when suppressed.  Short ARs are generally quite overgassed, so you’ve got to mess with buffer weights, springs, AGBs, gas busting charging handles, etc. if you want to tune the gas system (or not, and just accept the gas).  A lot of the issue has to do with the fact that the AR design blows gas back into the receiver.  Don’t have to worry about gas to the face with my MP5 and no gas system tuning is needed.  Just slap on the suppressor and go.

Lots of blowback guns are pretty gassy. Your MP5 is still a delayed opening system so maybe that’s why it’s better.

Shoot your MP5 left handed with a suppressor, and report back.

I do it all the time. It’s fucking awesome.

Literally my first thought:  "Probably not as awesome as your avatar..."

Because they are still better at certain things and people who carry on the job usually aren’t limited to one rifle/sub gun for everything.

I’m on a medium sized city SWAT team and have a 10.5” AR or MP5K-PDW to choose from, I previously had an UMP45 instead of the MP5 and other memebers still carry it.

I average making entry once a week on drug search warrants and much prefer the MP5 for this role. This is because the MP5 is shorter than the AR even with the stock collapsed (I prefer it extended) and lighter (current setup: AR has a Daniel Defense rail, fixed FSB, Aimpoint, light...MP5 has a light and no optic). When clearing tight spaces every extra inch of extension makes your gun feel like a musket and any extra weight, at least up front*, makes one handed handling more difficult (between opening doors, directing suspects, etc this happens frequently).  Before getting the MP5 I often only carried my pistol because the UMP** and AR weren’t as maneuverable. The MP5 is also easier to exit vehicles with quickly.

As far as lethality, I’m confident in 9mm within the CQB distances and despite often finding body armor I’m yet to encounter anyone wearing it. Thugs generally have body armor for making their rap videos and robbing other thugs in my experience. Also, head shots with an MP5 at CQB distances aren’t difficult if an armored suspect is encountered.

Now, when dealing with barricaded suspects and possibly extended standoff distances I choose my AR. If I were forced to only have either an MP5 or 10.5” AR I’d choose the AR because it is more versatile and I have many more years of training on it but I’d miss my MP5 for 90% of entries.

However, I’m currently demoing a 16” barrel X95 and like a lot of its characteristics for my purposes on the SWAT team. It’s only about an inch longer than the MP5, has 16” barrel ballistics, a comfortable length of pull for me, and despite not being as light as other options the weight distribution is to the rear which makes it shooting one handed incredibly natural (see * above).

** As configured, our UMPs are as front heavy and as long as our ARs.

^ Thanks for a well reasoned response.

Locally most our our tactical and specialty units are 5.56 only for entry units, with shotguns for breaching and “emergency” use (eye roll). The only folks who I have seen with some subguns were the FBI local SWAT and they had 10mm MP5s for show and tell. None of the SWAT guys rolled with MP5s due to breakage/maintenance issues but potentially agents could check the out. This is for an area medium sized cities 400-800k population.

Personally, 233/556 is blasty, if not wearing Peltors. There is also lots of visual signature with out suppression at night and dusty kicked up from the prone.

Having owned 900-1000 guns in my life, I've been surprised by guns I've never expected and have been let down by some of the most expensive guns I ever bought..  A CX-4 Storm (had 4), and original metal Kel-Tec sub rifle (owned 3 of I think 2000 made) were some of the most fun/Accurate/reliable guns ever...  My biggest mistake living in CT for 21 years was absolutely NEEDING an HK93 (planned building a SBR 43) and the only one legal in CT at the time was the first year HK43 (I believe 200 imported)...    AR's were $600 back then and I had 6, but spending $6000 on the uncomfortable HK thinking it was unicorn magic dust killed me...  (Luckily a rich dude gave me $8000)..  Moral of the story 5.56 are great but after owning everything known to man, keep your AR's THEN buy a PPC because PCC > Unicorn Magic dust....  I suggest a CX-4, CZ, MPX, AR in 9/45 etc... Ammo is cheap and Unicorns are a waste of money..

Forgot to add if someone broke into my house and I needed to protect the family I would grab my CX-4 storm (until I move out of CT and review a CZ/MPX/B&T) over all my guns and nicely setup AR's...  I'm too young to go deaf..  Ok soooooo I'm not young anymore, still enjoy hearing...