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Posted: 6/20/2017 8:09:32 AM EDT
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I am thinking about adding a new cartridge to the stable but I cannot decide what is right for me. The purpose of this thread is to figure that out. I originally planned on posting this in the AR discussions but I thought that may skew the opinions I get, so I figured General Firearms was a better place.
Let's get some basics out of the way first. I am currently looking at 3 cartridges: .300 blackout, 6.5 grendel, and 7.62x39. I have a SBR lower and a .30 cal suppressor I will probably use for this. I do reload and cast. I would like to keep the budget at $600 but could potentially go a couple hundred more if need be. What ever I decide to build/buy could potentially become my HD rifle but will mostly just be used as for backyard shooting with the suppressor. The .300 blackout would be built as an AR upper with a KAK 6.25" barrel, ending up as sort of a honey badger-esque AR build. The 6.5 grendel would be built as an AR upper with a 12" barrel, more than likely. The 7.62x39 would be a bit different as I only want that cartridge in a Kalashnikov. I would probably end up with a WASR but I'm also interested in PSA's offerings since they seem to have gotten their teething issues resolved. My gut is telling me that the .300 blackout would be the best choice since it is made for suppressed short barrels. Since I cast and reload, I could make cheap subsonic rounds for plinking in the backyard. I even have some .309 200gr bullets made already that I was using for subsonic .308. The one con I found, and it seems like a big one to me, is that I don't have any brass at all to load up. What I typically do in that situation is buy factory ammo and save the brass for reloading. When I looked around, factory .300blk ammo is just as expensive as .308 and I would rather spend the money on .308 ammo. I guess I could buy once fired .300blk brass but I've never done that and I don't really know where to look for that. I know that it is possible to convert .223 brass to .300blk but I'd rather keep .223 brass for .223. Plus converting seems like a PITA and they would need to be annealed, which I'm not set up for. As for 6.5 Grendel, what really attracts me to it is the ability to have a such a short and lightweight precision gun. I saw a youtube video a couple years ago of a guy with a 12" AR build shooting at plates at 1000yds and getting hits. That has been stuck in the back of my head for a while as something I would like to do eventually. I did see that cheap steel cased ammo is available and that is a plus for plinking around but it is only available online as far as I can tell so I would have to order it. I do prefer being able to grab a few boxes of ammo off the shelf locally though. 7.62x39 and the WASR are both something that I've had before and sold. It was actually the first centerfire rifle I got. I was new to guns and wanting to try different things so I sold it to build my first AR. That was like 7 or 8 years ago. I kinda miss it and I don't haven't had an AK since. The idea of suppressing an AK is interesting to me but I know it won't be exactly quiet with supersonic ammo and I am aware of the potential concentricity issues. Is it possible to make 7.62x39 subsonic? It is about the same size as .300blk and I don't see why an AK couldn't be made to function normally with a little experimenting. The AK is overgassed anyway and a suppressor will just add to that. I could get a few hundred brass cases to play with for making subsonic rounds and stock up on cheap steel cased stuff for range trips. To be honest, ammo cost is a big attraction for this option and it is available everywhere. Well those are my thoughts. Does anyone have any opinions on this? |
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If I was in your shoes I would do the 12" 6.5 Grendel hands down. The performance over the 300 Blackout puts the 6.5 Grendel SBR/Pistol in another league, some guy coined the nuclear option in the AR-15. With the Nosler Accu Bond Long Range bullet which expands down to 1300 FPS you get excellent hunting distance/range for a SBR. With the 6.5 Grendel running 50,000 PSI the 6.5 Grendel suppresses really well in a 30 caliber suppressor.
There have also been guys loading subsonic loads in the 6.5 Grendel as well as gas checked lead bullets at moderate velocities. I bought some Hornady Black 123 grain ELD-M ammo for $18 a box of 20. The other plus is the Wolf steel case 6.5 Grendel for plinking. Midway has blem 6.5 caliber bullets on clearence, even a 160 grain bullet if your interested. Midsouth Shooters supply has Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass for right at $50 per 100. Ballistic Advantage just released their SS 12" 6.5 Grendel barrel and Lilja also sell 6.5 Grendel barrels. You can buy a BCA 16" barrel for $100 or less and get it cut to 12" and rethreaded. Many options right now for the 6.5 Grendel. Check out this site for a 12.5" Ballistic Advantage SS 6.5 Grendel with 25% off, great price! http://www.graniteridgeoutfitters.com/65-Grendel_c109.htm |
| If it is primarily home defense, go .300 Black out. They perform significantly better in shorter length barrels. In regards to the grendel, based on the research I have been doing. If you want full potential out of the round, at least go 16" so in case you decide to shoot long range. After reading many 6.8 vs 6.5 discussions Where the big difference between the two is barrel length. Just like the .300 bo, the 6.8 does well in shorter barrels, where as the 6.5 is meant to be used in longer barrels for precision shooting but also works well in self defense. Just some things to consider between the two. As I also look at 6.5 grendel I was looking at industry support. Out of all three options you have listed, 6.5 has far less industry support and ammo can be a bit more difficult to get, though it is out there. |
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I don't reload, so my choice would be the economical AK. I'm not paying boutique round prices.
But, since you do reload, I'd suggest going .300. You can work up your ideal loads for various situations. While I get the general idea behind 6.5, ultimately I don't get it. If you want more power at longer range, don't half-ass it. Change platforms and step up to .308, or whatever. Certainly wouldn't go 12" on 6.5. "I want a long range CQB!" Wtf? That's like drilling holes in a boat to make it lighter if you ask me. Anyway, good luck! |
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Quoted:
If I was in your shoes I would do the 12" 6.5 Grendel hands down. The performance over the 300 Blackout puts the 6.5 Grendel SBR/Pistol in another league, some guy coined the nuclear option in the AR-15. With the Nosler Accu Bond Long Range bullet which expands down to 1300 FPS you get excellent hunting distance/range for a SBR. With the 6.5 Grendel running 50,000 PSI the 6.5 Grendel suppresses really well in a 30 caliber suppressor. There have also been guys loading subsonic loads in the 6.5 Grendel as well as gas checked lead bullets at moderate velocities. I bought some Hornady Black 123 grain ELD-M ammo for $18 a box of 20. The other plus is the Wolf steel case 6.5 Grendel for plinking. Midway has blem 6.5 caliber bullets on clearence, even a 160 grain bullet if your interested. Midsouth Shooters supply has Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass for right at $50 per 100. Ballistic Advantage just released their SS 12" 6.5 Grendel barrel and Lilja also sell 6.5 Grendel barrels. You can buy a BCA 16" barrel for $100 or less and get it cut to 12" and rethreaded. Many options right now for the 6.5 Grendel. Check out this site for a 12.5" Ballistic Advantage SS 6.5 Grendel with 25% off, great price! http://www.graniteridgeoutfitters.com/65-Grendel_c109.htm |
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Quoted:
If it is primarily home defense, go .300 Black out. They perform significantly better in shorter length barrels. In regards to the grendel, based on the research I have been doing. If you want full potential out of the round, at least go 16" so in case you decide to shoot long range. After reading many 6.8 vs 6.5 discussions Where the big difference between the two is barrel length. Just like the .300 bo, the 6.8 does well in shorter barrels, where as the 6.5 is meant to be used in longer barrels for precision shooting but also works well in self defense. Just some things to consider between the two. As I also look at 6.5 grendel I was looking at industry support. Out of all three options you have listed, 6.5 has far less industry support and ammo can be a bit more difficult to get, though it is out there. |
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Quoted:
I don't reload, so my choice would be the economical AK. I'm not paying boutique round prices. But, since you do reload, I'd suggest going .300. You can work up your ideal loads for various situations. While I get the general idea behind 6.5, ultimately I don't get it. If you want more power at longer range, don't half-ass it. Change platforms and step up to .308, or whatever. Certainly wouldn't go 12" on 6.5. "I want a long range CQB!" Wtf? That's like drilling holes in a boat to make it lighter if you ask me. Anyway, good luck! I think I'm gonna cross off the short 6.5 and maybe look into a 18 or 20" after I get this next build/buy. Still gotta look into the feasibility of subsonic 7.62x39 for this one though. |
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I wouldn't cross off the 6.5g just yet. one thing to take into consideration is Murphy likes to knock at peoples door at the most in opportune moment. having 5.56 and 300blk is asking for trouble in my opinion. all it takes is a simple grabbing of the wrong mag or a rouge round that ends up in the ammo can and catastrophe can set in. I liked the 300blk but I ditched it once I had kids for said reason.
of the above I'd pick the 6.5g others to consider .338 spectre, 450 bushmaster would be a fun heavy hitter that you could feed on the cheap as a handloader, if subsonic and short is what your after don't discount a DI 45 upper. Macon Armory sells mags and adapter to run on your registered sbr lower and he and Ronald Williams make di upper (I'd chose the latter personally) I was/might still have ron make me a dual purpose di 45 upper in 45 super that I could run acp subsonic as well with a switch block or possibly even powder selection. you can load 45 super into 460 Rowland territory with a locked breech. be like having a semi auto 44 mag and quiet subsonic with a change of the mag. |
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Quoted:
I wouldn't cross off the 6.5g just yet. one thing to take into consideration is Murphy likes to knock at peoples door at the most in opportune moment. having 5.56 and 300blk is asking for trouble in my opinion. all it takes is a simple grabbing of the wrong mag or a rouge round that ends up in the ammo can and catastrophe can set in. I liked the 300blk but I ditched it once I had kids for said reason. of the above I'd pick the 6.5g others to consider .338 spectre, 450 bushmaster would be a fun heavy hitter that you could feed on the cheap as a handloader, if subsonic and short is what your after don't discount a DI 45 upper. Macon Armory sells mags and adapter to run on your registered sbr lower and he and Ronald Williams make di upper (I'd chose the latter personally) I was/might still have ron make me a dual purpose di 45 upper in 45 super that I could run acp subsonic as well with a switch block or possibly even powder selection. you can load 45 super into 460 Rowland territory with a locked breech. be like having a semi auto 44 mag and quiet subsonic with a change of the mag. Will a .300blk chamber in a 5.56 or vice versa? |
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I also have been thinking about this same conundrum...
IMHO, a 300BK would be the best choice for a AR15 platform....the .300 BK really is a very versatile round. The 6.5 , while a great little cartridge, has been replaced ( for me ) by the 6.5 Creedmoor..... may as well get the most from a 6.5 round. And as for the 7.62x39... it is best in an AK... and , frankly, I rarely fire my AK anymore. If I was able ( and willing to drive to a much further range ), where I could "run n' gun then an AK would be fun. As for .45+ rounds.... the cost of firing them gets expensive quickly... so as long as you could live with that... then a .458 Socom would be my choice. To be honest, your choice has as much to do with how you shoot.... if you like shooting long range... then a 6.5 Grendal will be a fun gun. A 300BK would be ( for me ) more of a SD / Suppressed weapon... within certain ranges. And the AK is just a .... well.. I get it out for the friends to shoot .... so they can say they shot a AK ... Lol |
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I hadn't even considered going .45. I'm actually about to finish up a .45 cal F1 suppressor so that could be interesting. I did consider going 9mm but I prefer to shoot 9mm out of handguns. Will a .300blk chamber in a 5.56 or vice versa? I hear the DI 45 uppers have less recoil than both .223 and blowback 9mm uppers. as a caster you could cast a 255gr rnfp that would give some decent thump at subsonic velocities and cost less than 22lr these days to load. then you could even load some of those lehigh 120gr bullets (https://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/all/products/45-acp-120gr-xtreme-defense-ammunition?variant=15263468356) to blistering speeds especially if you loaded them to 45 super pressures. and in case you weren't aware 45 acp and super are identical with the exception of the brass having a stronger web for the higher operating pressures. |
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yes a 300 blackout can chamber into a 5.56 and if you touch it off it will grenade. https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/9/avoiding-the-300blk-ar15-kaboom/ I hear the DI 45 uppers have less recoil than both .223 and blowback 9mm uppers. as a caster you could cast a 255gr rnfp that would give some decent thump at subsonic velocities and cost less than 22lr these days to load. then you could even load some of those lehigh 120gr bullets (https://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/all/products/45-acp-120gr-xtreme-defense-ammunition?variant=15263468356) to blistering speeds especially if you loaded them to 45 super pressures. and in case you weren't aware 45 acp and super are identical with the exception of the brass having a stronger web for the higher operating pressures. Thanks for the links. I could see that kaboom happening to me as I tend to shoot with inexperienced people. Everyone knows what an AR mag looks like and no one would think that the ammo would be different since they didn't know better. I would probably remedy that by just taking one or the other to the range, as the article said. As far as ARs go, .300blk would be the best option in my situation. I'm still trying to decide if I want to build that upper or just buy an AK since I don't have one ATM. |
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