B&T APC 223 (SBR range report pg. 3) - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - B&T APC 223 (SBR range report pg. 3) (Page 3 of 4)

Posted: 4/25/2017 7:50:32 PM EDT

[#1]

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Quoted:

Which model(s) do you own?

The Swiss Arms rifles are very accurate with GP90.

Don't know how accurate they are with other match-grade ammo.

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the swiss arms / PE90 / sig 550 is the 20'' black special version with diopter sights. the APC is the 18.5'' match version. as with both rifles, they are far more accurate than i am. im a minute of dinner plate shooter.

Posted: 4/27/2017 6:54:33 AM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
the swiss arms / PE90 / sig 550 is the 20'' black special version with diopter sights. the APC is the 18.5'' match version. as with both rifles, they are far more accurate than i am. im a minute of dinner plate shooter.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/33459437290_6a57732132_h.jpg

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Which model(s) do you own?

The Swiss Arms rifles are very accurate with GP90.

Don't know how accurate they are with other match-grade ammo.

the swiss arms / PE90 / sig 550 is the 20'' black special version with diopter sights. the APC is the 18.5'' match version. as with both rifles, they are far more accurate than i am. im a minute of dinner plate shooter.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/33459437290_6a57732132_h.jpg

@White_knight

Where did you buy the 5/30s?

Have you shot GP90 out of the APC?

Posted: 4/30/2017 5:16:19 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

@White_knight

Where did you buy the 5/30s?

Have you shot GP90 out of the APC?

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i got mine from CanadaAmmo, 10 pack for 250ish. that way i could have spares if some ever broke, so far the ones i use have held up.

if i could find GP90 i would in both my swiss and the APC. only fired 55gr AE223, m855 and m193 so far in them.

Posted: 5/7/2017 8:16:49 PM EDT

[#4]

whats barrel threading for mount (apc 223)

Posted: 5/7/2017 11:30:21 PM EDT

[#5]

15x1 RH I believe.

Posted: 5/18/2017 2:09:24 AM EDT

[#6]

Do we have any rumors about availability of carbine versions in the US?

I know the pistol versions are here for many B&T models, but I can't track down anything about carbines.

Posted: 5/18/2017 8:26:28 AM EDT

[#7]

I haven't read anything, I doubt they are in a position to build the manufacturing facility here in the states.

Posted: 5/18/2017 10:23:01 AM EDT

[#8]

Can you get a cheek weld with ar height optics? I ASSUME ar height iron sights. Sb brace looks low?

Posted: 5/18/2017 12:35:47 PM EDT

[#9]

I don't own one but I have the CZ 805 Bren SBR and that's why the ACR stock adapter was made. To get a proper weld with AR optics and mounts. Just looking at this and owning an APC9 I can tell you it will be low. I use a low profile ADM mount on my APC9 with an MRO and it works great.

Posted: 5/18/2017 1:37:57 PM EDT

[#10]

I had to use the Larue short mount for the Aimpoint to get a decent check weld on the APC, I use Larue absolute mounts with my AR's.
I am still trying to find irons that I like, but so far the medium height Troy's are working the best for me.

Posted: 5/18/2017 1:54:55 PM EDT

[#11]

I wonder if there is a short mount for mro or upper 1/3 cowitnessed

Posted: 5/18/2017 2:48:19 PM EDT

[#12]

Midwest Industries makes a low mount and a Co-witness mount. I think the co-witness with a normal profile set of irons might work.

Posted: 5/19/2017 5:51:29 PM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:
I haven't read anything, I doubt they are in a position to build the manufacturing facility here in the states.

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What parts would have to be made domestically?

Posted: 5/19/2017 9:20:08 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
What parts would have to be made domestically?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I haven't read anything, I doubt they are in a position to build the manufacturing facility here in the states.

What parts would have to be made domestically?

Just guessing: Barrel, BCG, stock, trigger, and maybe the gas piston (like CZ does with the 805).

Posted: 5/20/2017 4:42:42 AM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:

Just guessing: Barrel, BCG, stock, trigger, and maybe the gas piston (like CZ does with the 805).

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That many?

Does the barrel thread into the barrel-extension/trunnion?

Posted: 5/24/2017 8:10:10 PM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:

What parts would have to be made domestically?

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Applicable APC556 922(r) parts:
Barrel
Trunion
Receiver
Lower (integral pistol grip so only one part)
Handguard
Hammer
Trigger
Sear
Flash hider
Piston
Bolt
Bolt carrier
Stock
Mag body
Mag follower
Mag floorplate

AR FCG and US magazine makes you 922(r) compliant.

Posted: 5/26/2017 1:49:29 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Applicable APC556 922(r) parts:
Barrel
Trunion
Receiver
Lower (integral pistol grip so only one part)
Handguard
Hammer
Trigger
Sear
Flash hider
Piston
Bolt
Bolt carrier
Stock
Mag body
Mag follower
Mag floorplate

AR FCG and US magazine makes you 922(r) compliant.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

What parts would have to be made domestically?

Applicable APC556 922(r) parts:
Barrel
Trunion
Receiver
Lower (integral pistol grip so only one part)
Handguard
Hammer
Trigger
Sear
Flash hider
Piston
Bolt
Bolt carrier
Stock
Mag body
Mag follower
Mag floorplate

AR FCG and US magazine makes you 922(r) compliant.

That begs the question... what trigger groups are confirmed to work? I know several have been eliminated, and it would suck to have to downgrade to be compliant.

Posted: 6/15/2017 9:11:10 AM EDT

[#18]

Gen 2's have started arriving at dealers.
Biggest differences I've seen are 1/2-28 threads and a fluted barrel.

Posted: 6/16/2017 10:05:32 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Gen 2's have started arriving at dealers.
Biggest differences I've seen are 1/2-28 threads and a fluted barrel.

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Just bought one this morning, super excited. Was trying to hold out for the carbine but I can't wait.

Posted: 6/21/2017 9:26:03 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

Just bought one this morning, super excited. Was trying to hold out for the carbine but I can't wait.

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About to buy one next week. Have you shot yours yet?

Posted: 6/22/2017 3:16:01 AM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:

About to buy one next week. Have you shot yours yet?

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Supposedly B&T was late delivering them, so it hasn't even reached the dealer yet, not too thrilled. On their site it says "If you can put it in the cart, it's in stock".

Posted: 6/24/2017 8:47:00 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Gen 2's have started arriving at dealers.
Biggest differences I've seen are 1/2-28 threads and a fluted barrel.

View Quote

What other differences are there?

Posted: 6/24/2017 8:47:27 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
Just bought one this morning, super excited. Was trying to hold out for the carbine but I can't wait.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Gen 2's have started arriving at dealers.
Biggest differences I've seen are 1/2-28 threads and a fluted barrel.

Just bought one this morning, super excited. Was trying to hold out for the carbine but I can't wait.

Roughly the same price as the Gen1's?

Posted: 6/24/2017 9:54:02 AM EDT

[#24]

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Quoted:

Roughly the same price as the Gen1's?

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Yep, same price.

Posted: 6/24/2017 10:47:07 AM EDT

[#25]

I got gen 1 Should I sell it and get gen two?

Posted: 6/24/2017 1:53:49 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
What other differences are there?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Gen 2's have started arriving at dealers.
Biggest differences I've seen are 1/2-28 threads and a fluted barrel.

What other differences are there?

Lighter due to the fluting and wider safety/selector.

Posted: 6/24/2017 2:05:17 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

What other differences are there?

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Selector is wider and lighter wallet.

Posted: 6/27/2017 7:16:14 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lighter due to the fluting and wider safety/selector.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Gen 2's have started arriving at dealers.
Biggest differences I've seen are 1/2-28 threads and a fluted barrel.

What other differences are there?

Lighter due to the fluting and wider safety/selector.

I got to shoot an APC-9 last month (the range didn't have the 223 as a rental), and I really didn't like the selector. I found it a hassle to safe/unsafe the weapon. I don't know how new it was though.

Does it get easier to safe/unsafe with use (or wear)?

Does the APC-9 have the same selector as the -223?

Posted: 6/27/2017 7:19:58 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Selector is wider and lighter wallet.

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Have you tried the Gen1 selector? How do you feel about the Gen2 selector?

I just checked the Canadian distributor's site, they don't have the new selector listed. I'm hoping they'll sell it seperately, because I don't want to wait for the Gen2 to be approved up here.

Posted: 6/27/2017 8:55:01 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

Have you tried the Gen1 selector? How do you feel about the Gen2 selector?

I just checked the Canadian distributor's site, they don't have the new selector listed. I'm hoping they'll sell it seperately, because I don't want to wait for the Gen2 to be approved up here.

View Quote

I have not tried a gen 1 selector. Still waiting for my gen 2 to ship.

At the moment, all I have is an APC9.

Found a couple pics of the Gen 2.

Fluted barrel.

Attached File

Wider selector.

Attached File

Posted: 6/28/2017 2:43:48 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

I got to shoot an APC-9 last month (the range didn't have the 223 as a rental), and I really didn't like the selector. I found it a hassle to safe/unsafe the weapon. I don't know how new it was though.

Does it get easier to safe/unsafe with use (or wear)?

Does the APC-9 have the same selector as the -223?

View Quote

At least on my APC9 it does get easier to manipulate the safety with wear. It starts out super stiff

Posted: 6/28/2017 3:31:21 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have not tried a gen 1 selector. Still waiting for my gen 2 to ship.

At the moment, all I have is an APC9.

Found a couple pics of the Gen 2.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/318931/20170627-063457-239849-edit-240169.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/318931/20170627-063533-239850-edit-240170.JPG

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Have you tried the Gen1 selector? How do you feel about the Gen2 selector?

I just checked the Canadian distributor's site, they don't have the new selector listed. I'm hoping they'll sell it seperately, because I don't want to wait for the Gen2 to be approved up here.

I have not tried a gen 1 selector. Still waiting for my gen 2 to ship.

At the moment, all I have is an APC9.

Found a couple pics of the Gen 2.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/318931/20170627-063457-239849-edit-240169.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/318931/20170627-063533-239850-edit-240170.JPG

Thanks for the pics, xM16a1x.
ETA: how does the Gen2 selector feel compared to the APC9's?

Quoted:

Quoted:

I got to shoot an APC-9 last month (the range didn't have the 223 as a rental), and I really didn't like the selector. I found it a hassle to safe/unsafe the weapon. I don't know how new it was though.

Does it get easier to safe/unsafe with use (or wear)?

Does the APC-9 have the same selector as the -223?

At least on my APC9 it does get easier to manipulate the safety with wear. It starts out super stiff

Good to know, thanks dushan. That safety really annoyed me, I wasn't really a fan of the charging handle either.

Posted: 7/30/2017 12:09:06 PM EDT

[#33]

B&T has bought a manufacturing facility in the USA and will begin production in the USA in 2018 from what I understand. Many components and material will still come from Switzerland

Just like with everything we carry, the APC223 is available at the best price you'll find

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Brugger-Thomet-APC223-Semi-Auto-556-Pistol-p/bt-36056.htm

Posted: 7/30/2017 12:59:55 PM EDT

[#34]

$2,700?

What am I missing...

Posted: 8/1/2017 10:00:07 AM EDT

[#35]

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Quoted:
$2,700?

What am I missing...

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The APC series is expensive, as are SIG 553s, and HK SP5Ks. Swiss and German manufacturing is costly. $2700 is a great price for the APC223 and about the same price (a little less) as SIG 553s before the election run up. Add the collapsible PDW stock and you have the most compact 5.56 sbr available.

Posted: 8/3/2017 8:54:40 PM EDT

[#36]

maybe some one can come up with acr stock adapter for us

Posted: 8/3/2017 9:20:19 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
maybe some one can come up with acr stock adapter for us

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I've had that same thought.

Posted: 8/4/2017 3:42:25 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
I've had that same thought.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
maybe some one can come up with acr stock adapter for us

I've had that same thought.

Me three.

Posted: 8/4/2017 3:43:50 AM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
B&T has bought a manufacturing facility in the USA and will begin production in the USA in 2018 from what I understand. Many components and material will still come from Switzerland

Just like with everything we carry, the APC223 is available at the best price you'll find

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Brugger-Thomet-APC223-Semi-Auto-556-Pistol-p/bt-36056.htm

View Quote

So will they be producing APC 223 rifles in the States eventually?

Posted: 8/5/2017 7:53:34 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
maybe some one can come up with acr stock adapter for us

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I like the ACR stock. But the folding/collapsing B&T stock is my favorite. It looks similar to the SwissArms 55x folding/collapsing stock.

Posted: 8/7/2017 12:12:45 AM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:

The APC series is expensive, as are SIG 553s, and HK SP5Ks. Swiss and German manufacturing is costly. $2700 is a great price for the APC223 and about the same price (a little less) as SIG 553s before the election run up. Add the collapsible PDW stock and you have the most compact 5.56 sbr available.

View Quote

I think there is something else going on. Switzerland is a rich country, but not that much richer than US. I think it's a matter of low production volume. You are essentially paying for a gun from a custom shop.

Posted: 8/7/2017 12:24:04 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

I think there is something else going on. Switzerland is a rich country, but not that much richer than US. I think it's a matter of low production volume. You are essentially paying for a gun from a custom shop.

View Quote

B&T production volume is really not low. Manufacturing costs are higher in Switzerland and Germany. You would be amazed at the salaries paid to the employees of companies in these countries. A close friend owns a high end eyeglass company in Germany and their operating costs are astounding.

Posted: 8/7/2017 7:35:43 PM EDT

[#43]

My dealer finally received my "in stock" SilencerCo Saker 7.62 ASR that I ordered in April.

The only issue I had was that I had to open up the flash hider to get it to fit over the barrel.

I took one of my 14.5" guns that I run an AAC SPR/M4 on. I really like this combination of shortish rifle with a suppressor that manages back pressure very well, along with a Gasbuster charging handle I get very little, if any, gas in my face even when I have to shoot at an indoor range. The Saker and the APC 223 make a great combination that I think might be close to hearing safe, hopefully.

Posted: 8/30/2017 6:37:47 PM EDT

[#44]

Any news on the GHM9 Josh?

Posted: 10/5/2017 10:16:07 PM EDT

[#45]

A few days old but, looks like there’s still hope for bringing the 308 version over

Click

Posted: 10/24/2017 9:52:49 PM EDT

[#46]

Got my SBR paperwork back a few weeks ago and finally had some free time. Set up some plates and ran drills for most of the day, ran about a dozen different factory loads and a couple different hand loads. A little over 750 rounds of 223 and 5.56, 5 different magazine mfg’s and 0 malfunctions made for a good afternoon drive home.

Combined 5.56/223 and 9mm sent down range was a little less than 1100 rounds today.

Group photo.

Album

Posted: 11/16/2017 11:26:29 PM EDT

[#47]

Has anyone seen the B&T branded AR magazines in the US?

Posted: 11/17/2017 1:13:52 AM EDT

[#48]

Not in the states, but I did see them in Germany a few weeks ago. The shop also had some polymer H&K magazines that I’ve never seen here either. I think the B&T magazines were about €45 and the H&K mags were around €50.