Armory Sponsor
Posted: 10/11/2012 2:19:30 PM EDT
|
Anyone own or have experience with OO's version of this rifle.It's a beautiful piece of equipment,
but 4600.00 is a lot to pay without some research. Thanks all. |
| A friend of mine has one and I shot 40rnds through it. Laying prone and using the bipod, with the stock iron sights I had no trouble knocking down the ram sillouettes at 500 meters. I was quite suprised how accurate it was. I had a good time shooting it. I would like to have one myself. |
|
I did things a little differently.
Already had a Korean-era 1918-A2 BAR parts kit on a Philadelphia Ordnance 80% receiver - dummy/display gun - $1,500. Bought a 1918-A3 BAR receiver kit from Ohio Ordnance Works - took about a year from time of order - $2,000. (Ohio Ordnance 1918-A3 semi-auto BAR receiver kit) + (Korean-era 1918-A2 BAR parts kit) = (semi-auto BAR) Neat project, learned a lot. Down-side is that I still have to have the barrel indexed properly and have it head-spaced - barrel/bolt/receiver to OOW - $150. Cycles great by hand great with dummy rounds. Still have the 80% receiver and a ton of 1918-A2 spare parts - if hell freezes over and the '86 MG ban is overturned, I can have it made 100% (ship 80% receiver/parts to an 07/02 SOT to be made into a MG and Form 4'ed back to me) and have a real 1918-A2 BAR.    
|
|
Geez I didn't realize they cost that much now.
I must've hit it just right when I bought mine because it didn't take but about 6 weeks to get it. OOW is an outstanding company. And the 1918A3 conversion is a good one. I've had/have some semi conversions that are less than stellar. The 1918 is a good design and is dependable. I wish OOW would make a Colt Monitor version. That would be the teets. OP you need to move across the Wabash and leave that Illinois oppression behind you. |
|
I bought an OOW receiver kit last spring (luckily the wait was only a few weeks at that time). While waiting for the receiver, I obtained the rest of the parts from a variety of sources, including a brand new 11-53 dated barrel. The advantage of doing it this way was that the cost came in at a little less than what OOW charges for a finished gun, plus I had the assurance of all GI parts (OOW makes some of their parts in-house).
The OOW receiver kit is a very high-quality product. Assembling the gun is not difficult. The only special tools you need are headspace gauges. First, you screw in the barrel until the index marks (on the barrel and receiver) line up. On my gun, screwing in the barrel hand-tight brought the index marks to about 1/4" apart. Using a heavy-duty strap wrench on the barrel, and clamping the receiver to the work bench, I was able to draw it up to about half that distance. I then "cheated" and used a jeweler's file (with a safe edge) to carefully polish a little material off the barrel shoulder (don't worry –– this technique is described in the WWII armorer's manual). I was then able to tighten it so that the index marks lined up perfectly. The headspace is regulated by the back surface of the bolt lock bearing against the receiver locking cavity. The bolt lock I got with my OOW kit gave too-tight headspace. But, it had a dovetailed "pad" at the back that could be ground to correct the headspace. I did this with a grinding wheel on a Dremel tool (the pad is too hard to file), and then I did the final truing with a sharpening stone. I'm under the impression that OOW uses bolts and locks from Swedish BAR's. You can substitute a GI bolt, but in that case you have to use the larger-diameter GI firing pin, with the square portion at the back cut off. The strap wrench is also needed to attach the buffer tube. The GI buttstock has to be trimmed slightly to fit the back of the OOW receiver. (The part that has to be trimmed (shortened) is the internal "tab" under the pistol grip –– it doesn't show from the outside.) Making the BAR in semiautomatic actually makes a lot of sense. It's far more accurate firing from the closed bolt. The M1918A3 bears the same relationship to the original BAR as the M1A bears to M14. In each case, the modified guns are more accurate than the originals. According to Jim Ballou's book "Rock in a Hard Place," there was even an official Army proposal after WWI to produce the BAR in a semiautomatic-only version (this came to nothing because of the development of the M1 Garand). I'm so pleased with the result that I'm currently working on a second one. I have all the parts, and OOW is promising the receiver sometime in December. (I used to have a "real" FA BAR, but I foolishly sold it. The M1918A3 makes a credible alternative.) |
|
Quoted:
I bought an OOW receiver kit last spring (luckily the wait was only a few weeks at that time). While waiting for the receiver, I obtained the rest of the parts from a variety of sources, including a brand new 11-53 dated barrel. The advantage of doing it this way was that the cost came in at a little less than what OOW charges for a finished gun, plus I had the assurance of all GI parts (OOW makes some of their parts in-house). The OOW receiver kit is a very high-quality product. Assembling the gun is not difficult. The only special tools you need are headspace gauges. First, you screw in the barrel until the index marks (on the barrel and receiver) line up. On my gun, screwing in the barrel hand-tight brought the index marks to about 1/4" apart. Using a heavy-duty strap wrench on the barrel, and clamping the receiver to the work bench, I was able to draw it up to about half that distance. I then "cheated" and used a jeweler's file (with a safe edge) to carefully polish a little material off the barrel shoulder (don't worry –– this technique is described in the WWII armorer's manual). I was then able to tighten it so that the index marks lined up perfectly. The headspace is regulated by the back surface of the bolt lock bearing against the receiver locking cavity. The bolt lock I got with my OOW kit gave too-tight headspace. But, it had a dovetailed "pad" at the back that could be ground to correct the headspace. I did this with a grinding wheel on a Dremel tool (the pad is too hard to file), and then I did the final truing with a sharpening stone. I'm under the impression that OOW uses bolts and locks from Swedish BAR's. You can substitute a GI bolt, but in that case you have to use the larger-diameter GI firing pin, with the square portion at the back cut off. The strap wrench is also needed to attach the buffer tube. The GI buttstock has to be trimmed slightly to fit the back of the OOW receiver. (The part that has to be trimmed (shortened) is the internal "tab" under the pistol grip –– it doesn't show from the outside.) Making the BAR in semiautomatic actually makes a lot of sense. It's far more accurate firing from the closed bolt. The M1918A3 bears the same relationship to the original BAR as the M1A bears to M14. In each case, the modified guns are more accurate than the originals. According to Jim Ballou's book "Rock in a Hard Place," there was even an official Army proposal after WWI to produce the BAR in a semiautomatic-only version (this came to nothing because of the development of the M1 Garand). I'm so pleased with the result that I'm currently working on a second one. I have all the parts, and OOW is promising the receiver sometime in December. (I used to have a "real" FA BAR, but I foolishly sold it. The M1918A3 makes a credible alternative.) Thanks for the post. This gives me some ideas/insight on my barrel indexing problem and later head-spacing. 
|
|
Some further observations on assembling the BAR:
There are 4 types of gas regulators. For practical use, you want a Type 4 (Korean era), that can be adjusted or removed for cleaning using only a cartridge as a tool. The Type 3 is similar, but requires driving out a roll pin for removal. But if you're going to use the BAR in WWII reenacting, these later types of regulators are considered "farby." The WWII type uses a key that has to be driven out for adjustment or removal. The bipod is always a problem due to its awkwardness and flopping around. There were several types of bipods made. Again. for practical use, the latest type (the one with a separate top plate on the yoke) is best. But this is not correct for WWII. The carrying handle is really post-WWII (in spite of being used in the movie "The Longest Day"). For practical use, I would leave it off. Like the bipod, it flops around, and it also ruins the finish on the barrel where it rubs against it. IMA sells a nice repro leather BAR sling for about $20. Lengthwise, it is the same as an M1907 rifle sling. The only difference is the presence of a third double hook, so that it can be adjusted longer. There were also longer versions of the M1 web sling, made for the BAR. A walnut buttstock does wonders for the appearance of the BAR, but originals are very hard to find. Reproductions are being made, but they're not cheap. I was lucky enough to have an original walnut buttstock, that had been arsenal-modified to the M1918A2 specs, to use in my build. It looks like I'm going to have to use a Bakelite buttstock in the second gun I'm building. |
|
Quoted:
Some further observations on assembling the BAR: There are 4 types of gas regulators. For practical use, you want a Type 4 (Korean era), that can be adjusted or removed for cleaning using only a cartridge as a tool. The Type 3 is similar, but requires driving out a roll pin for removal. But if you're going to use the BAR in WWII reenacting, these later types of regulators are considered "farby." The WWII type uses a key that has to be driven out for adjustment or removal. The bipod is always a problem due to its awkwardness and flopping around. There were several types of bipods made. Again. for practical use, the latest type (the one with a separate top plate on the yoke) is best. But this is not correct for WWII. The carrying handle is really post-WWII (in spite of being used in the movie "The Longest Day"). For practical use, I would leave it off. Like the bipod, it flops around, and it also ruins the finish on the barrel where it rubs against it. IMA sells a nice repro leather BAR sling for about $20. Lengthwise, it is the same as an M1907 rifle sling. The only difference is the presence of a third double hook, so that it can be adjusted longer. There were also longer versions of the M1 web sling, made for the BAR. A walnut buttstock does wonders for the appearance of the BAR, but originals are very hard to find. Reproductions are being made, but they're not cheap. I was lucky enough to have an original walnut buttstock, that had been arsenal-modified to the M1918A2 specs, to use in my build. It looks like I'm going to have to use a Bakelite buttstock in the second gun I'm building. I got the repro sling from IMA and am using an OOW gas regulator (came with their "Maintenance Kit" - extra charge) to start. Have the bipod and carry-handle on for now. I also have three GI bolts (from SARCO - one was still in the wrapper) and a couple of GI firing pins in addition to what came with the OOW receiver. Can you elaborate on filing the barrel to get the index right? Did you take the barrel off or just screw it out a little/file/check indexing/repeat?? Thanks again. |
|
I got the repro sling from IMA and am using an OOW gas regulator (came with their "Maintenance Kit" - extra charge) to start.
My understanding is that OOW takes a GI regulator and opens up all 3 holes to the same exact diameter (thus making it, in effect, non-adjustable). The idea, I think, is that the semiautomatic design takes a little more energy to operate than the FA, since the hammer has to be cocked as the bolt cycles. Nevertheless, you should be fine with the GI regulator set at the largest opening. Can you elaborate on filing the barrel to get the index right?
Did you take the barrel off or just screw it out a little/file/check indexing/repeat?? Here's what I did: First, I screwed the barrel in hand tight. There's a definite stop when it's hand tight –– there's no "mushiness" at all. It's almost as if the barrel "clicks" at the end of its travel. Then I took the stripped receiver and barrel assembly to my workbench and clamped the receiver to the top of the bench, between pieces of wood so as to avoid marring the finish. (Be careful that you don't apply too much clamping force, which could spring the sides of the magazine well.) I noted carefully the exact location of the barrel index mark in relation to the receiver. Then, using the largest, most heavy-duty strap wrench I could find, I tightened the barrel as much as I could. (The problem here is slippage, not so much a lack of torque. That's the same problem with any sort of barrel vise, where you're clamping a round barrel.) Again, I noted the exact location of the barrel index mark after tightening. The distance between these two locations is equal to the distance that should exist between the barrel and receiver index marks, when the barrel is screwed in hand tight after the filing/polishing of the barrel is made. I then unscrewed the barrel, using the strap wrench in the opposite direction. Taking the receiver and barrel to a well-lighted location, I started polishing the barrel shoulder (the surface that bears against the front of the receiver) with a flat jeweler's file with a safe edge. A very small amount of material needs to be removed, and this needs to be uniform all around the circumference of the barrel shoulder. Every so often, you need to check the progress by trial-fitting the barrel to the receiver, making it hand-tight each time. When it reaches the predetermined point, then it's time to take it back to the workbench and do the final tightening with the strap wrench. (You can't really do the filing with the barrel screwed into the receiver, even if it's loose.) Here's what paragraph 77c of TM 9-1211 (1942) has to say about this: "If the barrel will not draw up to proper position, dress off rear face of shoulder in a lathe, or, in case of necessity, with a fine file with a safe edge. If barrel draws by draw mark and no shim is available, rear shoulder of barrel may be peened lightly to a fit. This practice is not advised." Paragraph 77d: "Never alter the receiver to obtain draw fit. When barrel is alined, check alinement of gas cylinder tube, front sight, and extractor cut. If barrel requires much shimming or dressing to aline, headspace may be affected." |
|
Top is an OOW that has had some mods to bring it more in line with a WWII M1918A2 and the bottom is a home build on an OOW receiver.
The bottom gun illustrates clearly what I was talking about regarding the installation of the carrying handle. Notice the wear at that location on the barrel. Even though I have a carrying handle, this is the reason I'm leaving it off. What kind of bipod did you use on that build? |
|
Quoted: Where did you find the barrel?I bought an OOW receiver kit last spring (luckily the wait was only a few weeks at that time). While waiting for the receiver, I obtained the rest of the parts from a variety of sources, including a brand new 11-53 dated barrel. The advantage of doing it this way was that the cost came in at a little less than what OOW charges for a finished gun, plus I had the assurance of all GI parts (OOW makes some of their parts in-house). The OOW receiver kit is a very high-quality product. Assembling the gun is not difficult. The only special tools you need are headspace gauges. First, you screw in the barrel until the index marks (on the barrel and receiver) line up. On my gun, screwing in the barrel hand-tight brought the index marks to about 1/4" apart. Using a heavy-duty strap wrench on the barrel, and clamping the receiver to the work bench, I was able to draw it up to about half that distance. I then "cheated" and used a jeweler's file (with a safe edge) to carefully polish a little material off the barrel shoulder (don't worry –– this technique is described in the WWII armorer's manual). I was then able to tighten it so that the index marks lined up perfectly. The headspace is regulated by the back surface of the bolt lock bearing against the receiver locking cavity. The bolt lock I got with my OOW kit gave too-tight headspace. But, it had a dovetailed "pad" at the back that could be ground to correct the headspace. I did this with a grinding wheel on a Dremel tool (the pad is too hard to file), and then I did the final truing with a sharpening stone. I'm under the impression that OOW uses bolts and locks from Swedish BAR's. You can substitute a GI bolt, but in that case you have to use the larger-diameter GI firing pin, with the square portion at the back cut off. The strap wrench is also needed to attach the buffer tube. The GI buttstock has to be trimmed slightly to fit the back of the OOW receiver. (The part that has to be trimmed (shortened) is the internal "tab" under the pistol grip –– it doesn't show from the outside.) Making the BAR in semiautomatic actually makes a lot of sense. It's far more accurate firing from the closed bolt. The M1918A3 bears the same relationship to the original BAR as the M1A bears to M14. In each case, the modified guns are more accurate than the originals. According to Jim Ballou's book "Rock in a Hard Place," there was even an official Army proposal after WWI to produce the BAR in a semiautomatic-only version (this came to nothing because of the development of the M1 Garand). I'm so pleased with the result that I'm currently working on a second one. I have all the parts, and OOW is promising the receiver sometime in December. (I used to have a "real" FA BAR, but I foolishly sold it. The M1918A3 makes a credible alternative.) |
|
Quote ; My understanding is that OOW takes a GI regulator and opens up all 3 holes to the same exact diameter (thus making it, in effect, non-adjustable). The idea, I think, is that the semiautomatic design takes a little more energy to operate than the FA, since the hammer has to be cocked as the bolt cycles. Nevertheless, you should be fine with the GI regulator set at the largest opening.
I just checked the gas regulator that came in my OOW maintenance kit. The 3 orifices are all of a different size. I have never removed the regulator from the gun but will hopefully in the next few days. I'm curious as to whether the orifices in it have been opened up or are the original sizes. Both are the type for which the roll pin will have to be driven out. I have always used the gas regulator setting that's marked as being the smallest. From reading an earlier post it sounds as if a USGI firing pin will not fit the OOW bolt. I don't have one to check. Can a USGI firing pin be modified to fit? If not, where can the correct firing pin be found? I have done some searching but have not found anything. If I remember correctly OOW wants something like $115 for a spare firing pin. |
|
I just checked the gas regulator that came in my OOW maintenance kit. The 3 orifices are all of a different size.
I have never removed the regulator from the gun but will hopefully in the next few days. I'm curious as to whether the orifices in it have been opened up or are the original sizes. Both are the type for which the roll pin will have to be driven out. It could very be that the holes in the OOW regulator are different sizes. I don't have one (I have only GI regulators), and I was going by what I was told by someone who has a lot of experience working with these things. Maybe he was repeating a rumor. I don't know. The roll-pin type of regulator is a pain in the neck. You have to drive that pin out every time you remove the regulator for cleaning. The 4th type (that just screws in by hand) is readily available. The earlier WWI and WWII regulators are the difficult ones to find (in decent condition). I have always used the gas regulator setting that's marked as being the smallest.
The way this is supposed to work (in a FA GI gun) is that you start with the smallest opening, when the gas system is clean, and open it up to the larger sizes as you get accumulated carbon fouling. The OOW semiautomatic design is going to need more gas power, since the hammer needs to be cocked on the backstroke. I seems to me that a GI regulator, opened to one of the larger openings, would be adequate for this. But I haven't actually tested this out yet. From reading an earlier post it sounds as if a USGI firing pin will not fit the OOW bolt. I don't have one to check.
Can a USGI firing pin be modified to fit? If not, where can the correct firing pin be found? I have done some searching but have not found anything. If I remember correctly OOW wants something like $115 for a spare firing pin. The OOW bolt uses a firing pin with a smaller diameter nose than the GI firing pin. I was told that OOW uses surplus bolts and firing pins from Swedish BARs, and modifies them. I was also told that the GI firing pins would pierce soft commercial primers. I can't vouch for the truth of this, but it sounds logical to me. What's absolutely true is that the OOW bolt must go with an OOW firing pin, and a GI bolt must go with a GI firing pin, and that these components can't be switched. The good news is that a GI bolt/firing pin combination will work perfectly well in an OOW gun, if a simple modification is made to the GI firing pin (cutting off the square boss on the back end –– just compare the GI firing pin to the OOW one and cut the GI firing pin to the same length). GI firing pins are available for $40-45. |
|
Last night I field stripped my A3. The bolt and bolt lock are both Royal Typewriter and the part numbers on them match those in T.O. 11W3 - 5 - 3 - 34 ORD 9 SNL A-4 that is dated 10 May 1955.
I am going to purchase a USGI firing pin for comparison. I have yet to remove the factory installed gas regulator to check the gas port sizes. It is laying on the work bench and I will get to it soon (this weekend). |
|
If any of your have spare parts you want to sell please send me a PM. I am in the process of restoring a NESA full auto BAR that someone butchered converting it into a WWI model.
Primarily need a WWII butt stock with hardware and a hand guard with the heat shield. Thanks |
|
Quoted:
If any of your have spare parts you want to sell please send me a PM. I am in the process of restoring a NESA full auto BAR that someone butchered converting it into a WWI model. Primarily need a WWII butt stock with hardware and a hand guard with the heat shield. Thanks The last time I looked Bill Ricca had just a few new handguards. Have you looked at BMGparts.com? They have a decent selection of BAR parts. Sarco has qiute a few BAR items too. I measured gas regulator orifices with number size drill bits and found them to be 0,070", 0.086" and 0.098" Those measurements were taken from the regulator that was factory installed on the gun, and the regulator that came in the OOW maintenance kit. |
|
Quoted:
If any of your have spare parts you want to sell please send me a PM. I am in the process of restoring a NESA full auto BAR that someone butchered converting it into a WWI model. Primarily need a WWII butt stock with hardware and a hand guard with the heat shield. Thanks Take a look at this article. Might change your mind on WW2 stocks.... |
Armory Sponsor