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Posted: 2/14/2012 5:09:20 PM EDT
| I have a dilemma one of my friends/co worker gave me advice he is a gun fanatic and he said to buy a gun every year. Well my first year is done and I don't know what to get but I think I have it narrowed down. PLEASE DON'T judge me for this but I need help and don't take sides. My choices down to A 12G home defense shotgun, AK 47 don't judge!!!!!, or an AR 15 build from the ground up. I have a few extra parts from the last rifle etc..... AR 15:) but it would be more expensive to do the AR 15 then the other two but would be more fun because I get to build it:) but I think I want some thing new such as an AK 47? I would need tools which also means more money if I built the rifle. need assistance please!!! |
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It seems that intention of use is the major question here.
Dont underestimate the importance and power of a shotgun for home defense as well as sport and fun. That being said, for a SHTF gun, and AR seems perfect, imo. I dont have any experience with AKs but friends of mine enjoy them. hope that helps |
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It seems that intention of use is the major question here. Dont underestimate the importance and power of a shotgun for home defense as well as sport and fun. That being said, for a SHTF gun, and AR seems perfect, imo. I dont have any experience with AKs but friends of mine enjoy them. hope that helps thanks Im thinking it over..... |
We usually limit discussion in the AR15 section to, well, ar15s. That's in the rules that you never read, but don't worry no one else read them either. Shotguns are inferior to AR15s for defense-slow and difficult to use around friendies. The most practical thing is to build another ar15 similar to the first so you have a spare. If you have to have something different, and I understand that, I'd recommend in this order Semi automatic pistol, ie Glock 19 .22lr rifle, usually 10/22, with Tech sights for practice http://www.tech-sights.com/ .22lr pistol. I like the browning buckmark but lots of people prefer the ruger. ak47 In the long run you will find it is just inferior to the ar15. The safety is a joke and the sights suck.However they are kind of fun and ammo is usually cheaper. Unfortunatelly you missed out on the years of super dirt cheap ak ammo. And really it's skill that matters, someone who practices with his ak all the time will be ahead of someone who buys an Ar and goes to the range twice a year. shotgun. The problem with shotguns from just a hobbyist standpoint is they usually require steel knock down targets to be much fun. they just generally speaking aren't as much fun as a semi auto carbine. I do think it's worht learning the basics of fighting with a pump gun. If there is ever some unusual situation where you end up grabbing some gun that is laying around, or that you found, pump action 12 gauges are very common. as far as building an AR15-the tools are pretty inexpensive and they are relatively easy to build. If you think you might get into building multiple ar15s that would probably be the most fun. Ar15s have really taken off recently. If yo go to brownells webite you'll see ar15s have kind of taken over from 10/22s and 1911s as the enthusiast's hobby firearm to mess around with. |
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Can never go wrong with a good AK. I got a convered Saiga from Atlantic Firearms a few months ago and its cherry.
I'd look around and see what you find, lots of selection out there. Here is mine! http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff389/hunterbobby38/2011-12-15_16-31-39_518.jpg |
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Quoted: Quoted: That's a nice ak yea I like it but Im thinking under 700 bucks or so yeah mine are a cheap sar 1 and a sar 2. Neither one cost more than 300 |
| So how is shotgun inferior for self defense? I say go with a shotgun, they are multipurpose with multiple different barrels. There is no way in hell a AR 15 is superior in home defense unless you need shoot out over a 100yds which in most cases is no longer HD. |
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So how is shotgun inferior for self defense? I say go with a shotgun, they are multipurpose with multiple different barrels. There is no way in hell a AR 15 is superior in home defense unless you need shoot out over a 100yds which in most cases is no longer HD. Shotguns have: inferior sights, inferior mag capacity, pumps are near impossible to work one handed, buckshot and slugs penetrate drywall much more than proper 556 bullets, harder to mount a light/optics, more recoil, unable to be suppressed, no chance of short stroking the pump on an AR, faster follow up shots with an AR, less accurate than an AR, etc etc |
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Only one gun a year? I wish....once the bug bites, it costs. Im a college kid though.......... When I was an unmarried college kid, I averaged 4 a year. lol. not ARs, but decent guns that I still have and enjoy. 1 gun a year while in college seems relatively normal though. better then 0 guns a year 
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Quoted: Not as accurate, magazine changes suck etc. It's just not as good a system. I like 'em, they're fun and the shooters skill is far more importance than the type of rifle for the most part but still it is what it is.Quoted: ak47 In the long run you will find it is just inferior to the ar15. The safety is a joke and the sights suck. Both criticisms are easily remedied. |
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Quoted: Damn, all I had a $ 50 WWII bolt gun and a borrowed mossberg pump for years even after I go out of college.Quoted: Quoted: Only one gun a year? I wish....once the bug bites, it costs. Im a college kid though.......... When I was an unmarried college kid, I averaged 4 a year. lol. not ARs, but decent guns that I still have and enjoy. 1 gun a year while in college seems relatively normal though. better then 0 guns a year |
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Quoted: So how is shotgun inferior for self defense? I say go with a shotgun, they are multipurpose with multiple different barrels. There is no way in hell a AR 15 is superior in home defense unless you need shoot out over a 100yds which in most cases is no longer HD. Slower between shots, limited magazine capacity, hard to use around family, slow reloads, short stroking with pumps etc. Get some steel plates and set up three and shoot all three plates with a 12g with shot then do it with an AR. Also try shooting hostage targets with both. 100 yards? You running slugs in your shotgun laying around the house? |
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There is nothing wring with keeping up with the Joneses. We all have that envy in us when someone get's a new gun. Then we want one. I did that same thing when I finished my first AR. It was just a lower I built. But I wanted to do another. Nothing wrong with that.
If this is your first firearm though, I think you are doing a disservice to yourself though. Ammo, mags, and training should really be on the top of your list before looking into a completely different platform. Being proficient in one, does not always carry over to the other. If you have been shooting guns since a young age, you probably would not have issues picking up an unfamiliar weapon and being able to hit a target. But if you are that that type of shooter, then going for a new gun may not help but fill up your safe. And that is another issue. Mags, Ammo, cases, cleaning kits, optics, tools are all things that a growing collection needs as well. Not just the firearms. And it's a big expense. Much more than anyone knows or things during their first firearm. I had some fun before I bought my first firearm. I went to my local gun club, and got a member ship. They offered 15 free gun rentals with the membership. I used those and the cheap lane rentals to test a lot of different firearms they had. 9mm, .40's, some nice 1911's and so on. And it really helped with feeling how I liked the gun's and also if I could get use to the loads and cost on ammo. It was a great little test, but not everyone has that ability. It's a personal preference. Think about who else you have that might be able to do the same thing and get you more familiar with different platforms. Your friend said he buy's one a year, so that means he should have plenty to let you play with and see which if any would really be fun to own. I have a few WWII collectibles, 1911, AK, AR, and some other handgun's. Each one serves a different purpose and fun spot. But I took a lot of research and reports and different opinions and read a lot of threads of brands and models before I bought. Everyone is different, everyone has different hands, and everyone is comfortable with different things. I'd say focus on your first AR with mags and ammo, and shoot it. A lot of it. Then some more. Then see if you want to add to your collection, or it was just that little spot in the back of your head that liked building it and tinkering with it. More so than actually filling your need for another platform. |
Do as I say, not as I do: I can sit and play around on here and convince myself I need a new rifle, a fancy trigger, new optic or whatever. Then if I actually go shoot my now 8+ year old mutt gun I realize it's far more accurate than I can shoot except maybe off a bench with a scope and I should be spending money on ammo and time on practice. |
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Damn, all I had a $ 50 WWII bolt gun and a borrowed mossberg pump for years even after I go out of college.
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Only one gun a year? I wish....once the bug bites, it costs. Im a college kid though.......... When I was an unmarried college kid, I averaged 4 a year. lol. not ARs, but decent guns that I still have and enjoy. 1 gun a year while in college seems relatively normal though. better then 0 guns a year Army paid for tuition, My dad helped pay rent, I got a stipend from the army, part time job, drank cheap beer. Like I said, They weren't ARs or priced like ARs but they worked. Mosin Nagants, mossberg shotguns, .22 rifles, a few used guns, a budget handgun - actually that was a valentines day gift from my now wife. 
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I have a dilemma one of my friends/co worker gave me advice he is a gun fanatic and he said to buy a gun every year. Well my first year is done and I don't know what to get but I think I have it narrowed down. PLEASE DON'T judge me for this but I need help and don't take sides. My choices down to A 12G home defense shotgun, AK 47 don't judge!!!!!, or an AR 15 build from the ground up. I have a few extra parts from the last rifle etc..... AR 15:) but it would be more expensive to do the AR 15 then the other two but would be more fun because I get to build it:) but I think I want some thing new such as an AK 47? I would need tools which also means more money if I built the rifle. need assistance please!!! You need a poll 
I say shotgun first; something adaptable like a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 that you can swap out barrels and mag tubes on to suit hunting/gaming/defense requirements. After that I say an AR. I hate AKs, so I'm biased. Some folks like AKs and if you are one of those guys, then maybe buy an AK first because they aint making them here and if theres a ban, they'll be at the top of the list. Maybe a Saiga. |
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Damn, all I had a $ 50 WWII bolt gun and a borrowed mossberg pump for years even after I go out of college.
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Only one gun a year? I wish....once the bug bites, it costs. Im a college kid though.......... When I was an unmarried college kid, I averaged 4 a year. lol. not ARs, but decent guns that I still have and enjoy. 1 gun a year while in college seems relatively normal though. better then 0 guns a year Army paid for tuition, My dad helped pay rent, I got a stipend from the army, part time job, drank cheap beer. Like I said, They weren't ARs or priced like ARs but they worked. Mosin Nagants, mossberg shotguns, .22 rifles, a few used guns, a budget handgun - actually that was a valentines day gift from my now wife. yea but you got your fill with the ar 15/m4 with the army so yea but I might join a gun club or something like that |
| o and by the way im building an AR 15 second one more for hunting/ bench shooting SPR not interested in AKs any more had my streak but shot my step brothers and tough it was just poor firearm it was an Arsenal something more of a mess around gun and thats it. Shotgun are pretty cheap and can wait until later. handgun will be my three gun in another year haha Glock 19 |
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If it was your first gun, I would be very tempted to go with a Mossberg 500, ideally the field/home combo, and a 22LR I agree with what Aimless and others have said about AR/AK/shotgun for home defense, that said, until you have some practice and some time with guns, that is all theoretical. My wife, who still has very little trigger time, HATES ARs, because they aren't intuitive, after a few years, and a few thousand rounds, that changes, but getting started, she likes her guns to make sense. "Charging handle, where? WTF!" With a shotgun, you still need time to train, don't take that the wrong way, but you can get a shotgun that will do just fine for home defense for about $300, and a 22 for about $150-200 and really start getting rounds down range, in volume, and learning what you want to shoot, and how you like to shoot. This is by far, the cheapest way to cover all your bases and get you into shooting with a strong foundation. I spent a couple years in EMS, I have seen two people shot by a 12 gauge, they may not be easy, they may not have many rounds, they may kick like a mule, but they sure can stop a threat right then. I have never seen a rifle wound in person. I have seen plenty shot by pistols, pistols are NOT rifles or shotguns, not even in the same league. Long story short, I would not feel under gunned with any quality long gun. You really should get a 22. I know its not as cool, but the fundaments it can teach you will allow for everything else to make sense and build much faster. If you have a 22, and everything I have said is past, I say go AR. I personally don't care for them, for purely personal reasons, but they are great firearms, that can serve their owner well and be damn fun along the way. |
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get a 22 if you are on a budget (ruger 10/22). you can shoot all day, practice/train (marksmanship,etc) and still have fun; if you want HD/PD/serious weapon, then go for an AK––cheaper ammo and gear and overall thing is I got a 22lr conversion kit for my ar 15 so I dont need a 22 lr onlyshot about two hundred rounds through the kit really like it |
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If it was your first gun, I would be very tempted to go with a Mossberg 500, ideally the field/home combo, and a 22LR I agree with what Aimless and others have said about AR/AK/shotgun for home defense, that said, until you have some practice and some time with guns, that is all theoretical. My wife, who still has very little trigger time, HATES ARs, because they aren't intuitive, after a few years, and a few thousand rounds, that changes, but getting started, she likes her guns to make sense. "Charging handle, where? WTF!" With a shotgun, you still need time to train, don't take that the wrong way, but you can get a shotgun that will do just fine for home defense for about $300, and a 22 for about $150-200 and really start getting rounds down range, in volume, and learning what you want to shoot, and how you like to shoot. This is by far, the cheapest way to cover all your bases and get you into shooting with a strong foundation. I spent a couple years in EMS, I have seen two people shot by a 12 gauge, they may not be easy, they may not have many rounds, they may kick like a mule, but they sure can stop a threat right then. I have never seen a rifle wound in person. I have seen plenty shot by pistols, pistols are NOT rifles or shotguns, not even in the same league. Long story short, I would not feel under gunned with any quality long gun. You really should get a 22. I know its not as cool, but the fundaments it can teach you will allow for everything else to make sense and build much faster. If you have a 22, and everything I have said is past, I say go AR. I personally don't care for them, for purely personal reasons, but they are great firearms, that can serve their owner well and be damn fun along the way. been around guns all my life both grandpas served in WWII dad carried a beretta M9 he was a county attorney went hunting when I was a kid got to shoot 1911s M1s, 1903 springfields, etc... Also was in competetive shooting 22lr two summers with the boy scouts, and trap shot with friends once in a while and three step brothers who love guns and hunting. I also have two cousins in the military who also I go shoot with sometimes don't get me wrong for a 19 year old I have shot more guns than probably most kids my age and probably put my fair share of rounds down range in my short life so far. was also on a paintball team who traveled arounds the country during the summer got good at military tactics and know to basics of firearm use. |
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So how is shotgun inferior for self defense? I say go with a shotgun, they are multipurpose with multiple different barrels. There is no way in hell a AR 15 is superior in home defense unless you need shoot out over a 100yds which in most cases is no longer HD. Shotguns have: inferior sights, inferior mag capacity, pumps are near impossible to work one handed, buckshot and slugs penetrate drywall much more than proper 556 bullets, harder to mount a light/optics, more recoil, unable to be suppressed, no chance of short stroking the pump on an AR, faster follow up shots with an AR, less accurate than an AR, etc etc I don't find the sights inferior in fact I prefer the bead easy to line up in the dead of night, I agree hard to pump one handed, but there are plenty of semi autos out there. No need to mount optics longest straight shot I have is about 20ft. Light mounts very easy with a surefire forend. With a semi no worries about short stroking with a pump it will take some training but what kind of shooting sport doesn't require training. More recoil but far better one shot knock down the an 5.56mm. Again accuracy 100yds is no long self defense IMO. |
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So how is shotgun inferior for self defense? I say go with a shotgun, they are multipurpose with multiple different barrels. There is no way in hell a AR 15 is superior in home defense unless you need shoot out over a 100yds which in most cases is no longer HD. Shotguns have: inferior sights, inferior mag capacity, pumps are near impossible to work one handed, buckshot and slugs penetrate drywall much more than proper 556 bullets, harder to mount a light/optics, more recoil, unable to be suppressed, no chance of short stroking the pump on an AR, faster follow up shots with an AR, less accurate than an AR, etc etc I don't find the sights inferior in fact I prefer the bead easy to line up in the dead of night, I agree hard to pump one handed, but there are plenty of semi autos out there. No need to mount optics longest straight shot I have is about 20ft. it's been proven over and over that optics increase hit percentages, especially in low light. Light mounts very easy with a surefire forend. With a semi no worries about short stroking with a pump it will take some training but what kind of shooting sport doesn't require training. More recoil but far better one shot knock down the an 5.56mm. I would take a 50g Barnes TSX out of a 10.5" SBR over buckshot any day of the week. Again accuracy 100yds is no long self defense IMO. nobody said anything about 100yd shots. try and shot hostage targets with buckshot at 15yds. I'll still take an AR. Why do you think HSLD folks use short, select fire carbines vs shotguns to clear buildings? |
| Still I think the chances of hostage targets in HD are the rare exception, we are not SWAT teams here, we are ordinary people for the most part, we don't go into houses after hostages on a regular basis, home invaders in most cases are after your stuff not the people inside. They perps break into your house for one of two reasons either they are drugged out of their mind looking for crap to steal for their next fix, or they mistakenly broke into an occupied home, they ones that are their for the people are the very rare exception. |
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what is going to get more use?
I find I shoot my AR M4gery and my Remmy 700 the most.... So I'd start there If I had a "back woods" range I might consider cheapness of ammo and go AK or 870........ But I'm usually at the 100 to 300 yrd ranges so AR and a 308 are a lot more fun for me. |
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Im gonna say shotgun as well if you already have an AR 15.
I just picked up a nice Remington 870 from a pawn shop with long full rib hunting and short 18 inch barrels in excellent condition for $275. Its going to be my 14 year old's 15th birthday present.
The versitality of a good shotgun is hard to beat. From hunting small game and birds to deer - to being the ultimate close range weapon. The shotgun does have its limitations, but it does many things very well. |
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So how is shotgun inferior for self defense? I say go with a shotgun, they are multipurpose with multiple different barrels. There is no way in hell a AR 15 is superior in home defense unless you need shoot out over a 100yds which in most cases is no longer HD. Shotguns have: inferior sights, inferior mag capacity, pumps are near impossible to work one handed, buckshot and slugs penetrate drywall much more than proper 556 bullets, harder to mount a light/optics, more recoil, unable to be suppressed, no chance of short stroking the pump on an AR, faster follow up shots with an AR, less accurate than an AR, etc etc I don't find the sights inferior in fact I prefer the bead easy to line up in the dead of night, I agree hard to pump one handed, but there are plenty of semi autos out there. No need to mount optics longest straight shot I have is about 20ft. it's been proven over and over that optics increase hit percentages, especially in low light. Light mounts very easy with a surefire forend. With a semi no worries about short stroking with a pump it will take some training but what kind of shooting sport doesn't require training. More recoil but far better one shot knock down the an 5.56mm. I would take a 50g Barnes TSX out of a 10.5" SBR over buckshot any day of the week. Again accuracy 100yds is no long self defense IMO. nobody said anything about 100yd shots. try and shot hostage targets with buckshot at 15yds. I'll still take an AR. Why do you think HSLD folks use short, select fire carbines vs shotguns to clear buildings? I have a 16" M4 Style carbine as well as a Benelli M1Super90 Shotgun. I have 50, 55, and 62 grain Barnes TTSX and TSX available for it. The shotgun with #1 or OO Buck is whats gonna grabbed for close range home defense. I have shot people in Iraq with both the M4 carbine and the 12 gauge/Buckshot. The 12 gauge is more effective against close range unarmored adversaries. The carbine is much more effective for medium range, potentially armored or behind light cover adversaries. Use the right tool for the job. You cannot do that if you dont have all the tools...... |
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