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Posted: 6/2/2011 3:25:16 PM EDT
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Hi Fellas,
I'm looking for a good semi-auto .308 rifle to round out my arsenal. I just feel the need for a rifle that can give me longer range as well as gain a more powerful cartridge, in SHTF/survival scenarios. I have AKs and ARs, which are fine weapons in their own right, but looking for a little more "reach out and touch someone" capability. So far, I've got the following in mind and would like opinions on which you prefer and why: Springfield Armory "Scout Squad" DSA Inc. SA58 18" FAL Rifle HK 91 or QUALITY Variant Armalite AR-10 20" or Carbine A3 Any and all input is appreciated. BTW, my budget is around $2000.00. |
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Before getting an M1A, I'd go to this site's M1/M1A forum and take a look around. These rifles can be extremely finnicky, and Springfield's attention to quality is shady at best. Yeah, they've got a lifetime warranty. I've sent my M1A into them 3 times. When I got the rifle there was a huge gap between the heel of the reciever and the stock. You should almost slide a credit card between the two! When holding the rifle, I could press my thumb against the reciever, and it would move up while sitting in the stock. Considering that you want the stock and the rifle to have a tight fit, this is not good. I didn't know any better, so I didn't do anything until I saw a few other M1A's and saw that there was no gap like this. What was PATHETIC is that this was the third time I sent the rifle back in...meaning that when I sent the rifle in the 2 previous times, the people who fixed it either didn't notice it or didn't care enough to remedy the problem. All in all, I do love the rifle. But, if I were in your shoes, I'd buy an Armalite or a Rock River .308 and not look back. Its been a lot of work, and scoping it was expensive. Doing simple maintence on the rifle (taking off the flash hider, disassembling the bolt, etc.) requires special tools. Not a big deal for the military, but for private citizens with a tight budget, its a pain in the butt. |
| If you want an accurate long range semi-auto the AR-10 is king. If you want a very durable battle rifle, but don't care as much about accuracy then my choice is the FAL. Or if you can't decide and want something between then the HK-91 is a good all round weapon. Or if you want something that is classic then the M1A1 is good, my Dad likes them since he used to use an M-14 back when in the military. Sounds like you want an AR-10 though since you say you want to reach out and touch someone like a good sniper rifle will do. |
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I have a standard rack grade LRB 18" built by Jon Wolfe. I have had it for a couple of years. Because of the weather I only shoot 4 or so months out of the year. I try to take at least 1 of my LRBs to the range every trip out. But that doesn't always happen.
The rifle below I have designated as my M14 target rifle because it wears a 10x Bushnell 3200 Elite. (My combat set up wears a 1-4x Trijicon 30mm). LRB 18" rack grade built by Jon Wolfe 
I find if I do my part this rifle will shoot MOA no problem. And every trip I manage to pull a sub MOA group once I get in the zone This 100 yard group is from sunday: 
This 100 yard group is from a few weeks back, my first trip out this season: 
This 100 yard group is from my last session last season: 
The bottom line is, M14s, even rack grade builds can be very accurate. Even my combat set up with a 4x scope is very accurate: LRB 18" rack grade built by LRB 
This is the first 1-4x scope I have really done any shooting with. I picked it up a couple of months ago, but I'm getting the hang of it. At 50 yards shot a few weeks back: 
At 100 yards shot a few weeks back: 
I hear a lot of folks say M14s aren't accurate rifles, or they need lots of expensive match upgrades to make them shoot MOA. I was thinking I needed to go get a Bolt Action .308 or an AR10 to shoot MOA, but clearly that won't be necessary. I know if I do my part, my rifles will shoot sub-MOA. I just don't see a need to make upgrades or buy a match grade bolt action rifle. I have everything I need with my M14s!!! Good luck, and enjoy the research. If you go the M14 type route, I recommend staying away from Springfield currently, lots of QC problems, and lots of Korean and Taiwanese parts. Get an LRB, or get an LRB receiver, collect USGI parts and have a guy like Jon Wolfe build it up for you. |
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Wow! Lots of great information here. As far as reliability/quality, I've heard and read good and bad things about EVERY rifle mentioned. Some shooters love the AR-10 and others would never consider another one. According to some, the HK91 can be very picky about what it eats as well. RRA .308s have a "hit and miss" reputation, etc. etc.
Looks like I'll buy a used piece and determine whether or not the gun was reliable for the previous owner. In the meantime, I'll keep researching. Thank you guys for your input! It is much appreciated. |
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Quoted:
Wow! Lots of great information here. As far as reliability/quality, I've heard and read good and bad things about EVERY rifle mentioned. Some shooters love the AR-10 and others would never consider another one. According to some, the HK91 can be very picky about what it eats as well. RRA .308s have a "hit and miss" reputation, etc. etc. Looks like I'll buy a used piece and determine whether or not the gun was reliable for the previous owner. In the meantime, I'll keep researching. Thank you guys for your input! It is much appreciated. BTW, I have shot over 5,000 rounds between the two LRBs above and have never had a single malfunction! Not one. Most LRB owners report the same experience. |
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What's LRB stand for? LRB It is the initials of the owner. He and his son hand fit and build all the rifles. Lemons don't come out of that shop. And if they do, it is a very rare. |
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If it were me, I would spend a bit more and get a SCAR 17S. The weight and balance is so much better and accuracy is supposed to be a bit better in general than some of the older legacy guns like you are looking at. You get all the advantages of the AR platform in terms of fast/easy mag changes, great ergonomics and the ability to mount optics and accessories, all in a fairly light platform for a 308.
Now I love the M14 platform and have a few myself. And of your choices I would go with the Scout. The downsides to it are that it is heavier, but not exceedingly so, and mag changes are much slower. Also, mounting optics can be an issue, requiring a cheek riser for many optics and creative solutions for mounting more traditional scopes. If you just want to mount an aimpoint it shouldn't be too hard with a low mount and I don't thnk would require a riser. I put my Scout into a Sage stock and love that, but it's still not what the SCAR is, especially if you want to mount traditional optics. It's pretty heavy too. Your other choices are also pretty heavy although an AR-10 carbine could possibly be built lighter. It could be made to be pretty accurate as well from what I understand, but I would still pick the SCAR over it. |
I have an M14S. It's a great rifle, reliable, and accurate enough for field work.
Sweet rifle, but I would chose one of my AR10s over it. For General all-around use, you have the AR10A4, which is a robust, 7.62 NATO/.308 "service rifle". The flattop gives you all kinds of sighting options including irons with either flip us sights or the detachable set of carry handle/front sight. Here's mine with a 4-12 scope on it: 
I also have a red dot and the carry handle/front sight set for it. If you want a carbine, the AR10A4 is a handy rifle with a lot of punch. Here is mine with and without the suppressor. This one was assembled using a fixed A2 front sight and an SOF barrel which are hard to find now: 
It also gives you the same sighting flexibility of the A4 rifle. If you really want to reach out and touch someone, I mean way out, you can get an AR10T for well less than $2000: This is my older 10T with a 24 inch Eagle Arms/Armalite CM barrel, SASS rail, and SASS gas block for use with my suppressor. Very accurate: 
This is the factory picture of a 20 inch 10T: 
Here is my SASS, but they are a bit more than $2k. 
Best bet is to go here and take a look: AR-10 rifles Keep in mind that the prices shown are MSRP and you can probably can get one for less than MSRP at a dealer. Some of the crap you read about the AR-10 is not actually about the AR-10, plus I have seen a lot of BS from some who wouldn't know an AR-10 if it walked up and slapped them silly. I have 5. All dead nuts reliable. I did have an ejector go bad on my 10 year old 10T once. |
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Thanks so much for the pics and links, LarryG, and everyone else who contributed! You know, I had heard a lot of negative things concerning the AR-10. Mainly, its reliability issues. I didn't even think to look at an Eagle Arms rifle in .308 until I clicked on the Armalite link and saw they were available. Very economical considering I would like to purchase many magazines and ammo. Thanks again!
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Quoted:
Thanks so much for the pics and links, LarryG, and everyone else who contributed! You know, I had heard a lot of negative things concerning the AR-10. Mainly, its reliability issues. I didn't even think to look at an Eagle Arms rifle in .308 until I clicked on the Armalite link and saw they were available. Very economical considering I would like to purchase many magazines and ammo. Thanks again! I didn't even see the 2 Eagle Arms rifles. 
Only difference is a 1 year warranty instead of lifetime and the CM barrel. The Eagles are very nice. It's actually rare that they put out any Eagle Arms one. |
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Obviously not the only choice. |
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Better choice: 
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I also have a DSA Para with 18 inch barrel but my 11 inch Para is less than 2ft long
I also like my NM M1A and Bush M1A but the Para FALs are my choice for 308. I may have to try the SCAR17 but not sure since they havent been tested like the FALs Also FAL is easy to work on - not sure how the SCARs are to work on in comparison http://i56.tinypic.com/5d9e1s.jpg |
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I haven't had a Springfield M1A. I do have an HK91, FAL para, Armalite AR10. All have been great rifles. I wouldn't want to part with any of them.
When confronted with this problem "all of above" solves it. lol! I would probably go with the Armalite AR10 first. Mainly because I shoot ARs so much it is a natural transition between the AR15 and AR10. That said, I could easily live with the FAL as first choice too. The HK has been great too but I shoot it the least for no particular reason. |
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