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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - why, why, why, why? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/15/2008 4:54:42 PM EDT
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do people ask you when you are selling a USED gun " how many rounds have been fired through it? " i would like to answer, ah, jee, the round counter thingy is broke at 5000 rds, so at least 5000 rds! i mean like what the hell! your not buying a used car! ive bought alot of guns, and have NEVER asked how many times it has been shot. this last time, i was selling an ak-47 and had 3 guys ask me rd count. give me a break. for one thing its an ak-47 and will still work after a million rds, and secondly, who gives a shit? your talking about a 400.00 gun, not something selling for 10,000. well, thats just my rant for tonight. kirk 
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+1 At some point it does make a difference. I like to know how close I am to that "point" when I buy a gun. For me it's just so I'm aware of the history of the gun. Either way, I still buy it, I just like to know how many times it's gone "BANG". 
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your forgetting an important point! my ad didnt say " like new ". like new means just that, like new with less than 500rds fired or something similar. if the ad states like new, yes then you should expect low rd count. but when you are looking at a USED ak 47 for under 400.00 you are just being a moron by asking rd count. kirk |
I should get an odometer for my gun, too.  I ask and check the bore. Depending on the gun it means a lot. |
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It does mean a hell of alot on what shape the gun parts are in. All parts have a service life, from the barrels to the springs and a common non-chromelined barrel's life is about 7,000-10,000 rounds. So if I was buying a used PTR91 for example, and the rifle had 5,000 rounds through it than that barrel is half worn out. Regardless of what kind of shape the bolt carrier, receiver and other parts are in that means alot faster than a new one, I'm going to need to have that bastard rebarreled. A G3 isn't one of the most convenient have rebarreled either and than there's the total cost. That means how ever pretty the finish is from being recoated with Duracoat or a spray can in someone's garage that rifle isn't worth what it would be in newer condition and it's worth less to me, close to what it will cost to rebarrel it. Some rifles are harder on parts than others too, so that round count has alot to do with what it's worth.  |
Let me splain you somethin. Your original post included nothing about an "ad" you posted. Are we all just supposed to miraculously know about an "ad" you posted somewhere. Do you think all of us look at every EE ad and then surf every other forum in it's entirety? Secondly, I'm presuming the only reason this is frosting your behind so is because you don't keep track. Some of us do. I have a log book for pistols and rifles. Every time I shoot them, I make an entry and round count and add it to the last time I shot it. I PERSONALLY, like to know how many rounds because of maintenance. And if I ever do sell, I can have an account of it. Some people like that. If you are wanting to sell an item, you sometimes have to account certain attributes to buyers. Why do cars have odometers than? Would I be a moron if I was a little concerned if I couldn't see the miles on a car if I was going to buy it? Lympago's post covers the technical side of why quite well. If you wish to do business with people, you may want to take this as a learning lesson. That doesn't mean you won't be able to get rid of it without the info. But without being able to fondle something and look it over, if you're selling it on line, a round count is an easy way to get an idea of the shape it could be in and can be a comfort to some people to know that. And FWIW, some AK's go for that new. So, some may expect something somewhat new in that price range. You seem to be kind of out of your league on this one. I have to admit, I just reread your whole post. Still work after millions of round eh? That's pretty comical. 
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if asking how many rounds a gun has been fired makes me a moron, then call me a moron and if you refused to answer, then id take my money elsewhere. you could always lie or be a smartass and answer 6 but when im spending my hard earned money, i want to know a lil bit about the gun! |
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When you buy a used car surely you ask how many miles are on it and if there have been any issues with it right?  Do you need to carry a throat erosion gauge and go - no go gauges with you whenever you shop for a gun, maybe not but round count is a good indicator of the kind of shape a gun may be in most of the time. If the guy tells me that the gun has 200 or 300 rounds threw it and it looks well taken care of it's a go. If a gun has 20,000 rounds down the pipe I'm going to have to do a little more of a in-depth inspection prior to a purchase. I have a feeling that there is more to this than the OP is leading on.......
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hello. no, there is no more to this story. im just tired of morons asking me how many rds were fired through a gun when i am selling it as used. how in the hell would i know anyways when i got it used in the first place. this happens everytime i sell a gun on this board. and yes, if you dont like my response to your question of how many rds have been fired through it dont buy it. id rather not sell it to you anyways considering you would be picking a 400.00 gun apart anyways. ive bought many, many guns, a few on this board, and have never asked how many were shot through it. funny, the guy that bought the ak, didnt ask any questions, just ill take it. that is the same way i do business, look at the ad and either you want it or you dont. why do people feel they have to email me over and over about a USED 400.00 gun? |
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I think we've all bought used guns at one point or another and asked that question. Simply because in the back of your mind you're curious. If you bought it used to begin with just state that. Just say you've only fired _____ thru it and thats all you can account for. If someone really wants it, they'll take it no matter what the unknown count is. I did that with my P220 a couple years back. I didnt care how many rounds were thru it, it looked well cared for and thats all that mattered and has treated me very well. |
| I don't think I've ever asked that, but I do ask about the history of a piece before I buy it. I want to get a feel for whether the last guy is just ditching it because it never worked right, or because it didn't fit him well (which is great, if I think it'll fit me), or because everything's worn out, or just because he doesn't use it much any more. |
+1. its a fair question! maintenance is an important part of owning/using guns and round count is part of the maintenance. dosent matter if its and AK, AR, Glock, or whatever. |
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I always try to give a close estimate to how many rounds I've shot when I sell a gun. It really helps me in the long run, because I am much more likely to get a sale with the best description. Also, a detailed ad will reduce the amount of questions from tire-kickers as well. 2 Examples: WTS: Chinese SKS Used Chinese SKS with wood stock and sling. No Bayo. Good Conditon $220 <1 Picture> or WTS: Factory 26 Norinco SKS Non matching Factory 26 Norinco SKS with Serial # AB1234X. This is a K-Sports Import with the typical Chinese hardwood stock, and the bayonet lug has been ground off. I bought this rifle used a year ago, and I have personally put approximately 800 rounds of 7.62 through it. Its in good condition with minor dings on the stock, and couple of scratches on the FSB. Comes with the "dog collar" sling, and cleaning rod. Asking $220 shipped payable by USPS Money Order. <5 pictures> Now assuming both of these ads were on the EE, which would be sold the quickest? |
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In three of my precision rifles I can tell you exactly how many rounds were fired on any given day at the range and the total. There are also notes about the ammo lot used, and any unusual circumstances. Now with pistols, I don't count. Rifles like an AR-15, I can guess within 5000 rounds, but that is about as close as I could tell you. I know that I have a couple of young AR's that don't even have 1000 rounds through them yet, and I consider them almost broken in. With some firearms I count, others I don't. I know exactly how many rounds go through my 300 win mag tubes before they die....usually between 800-900. |
wrong-wrong-wrong! picture was provided in the ad! judging by the amount of strokers i had on it, i must have been too cheap. i had very little in it, and thought i would sell it for a cheap price to move it quickly, which it did. sold within 4hrs. i just figured ( wrongly ) that at that price, with a picture, and a description, that i would get a ill take it, right away. not a bunch of strokers. i have now decided that when i sell a USED gun here, and someone asks how many rds fired through it, i am just going to make up a number. who will know? maybe that will end the strokers?  kirk
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I think this thread will certainly reduce the number of inquiries to your EE postings, thats for sure. Another thing thats for sure: If you are caught falsifying an ad in the EE, it will be the last we hear of you. |
Must be one hell of an AK.  |
I think I will be avoiding you completely in the any section of the EE. |
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I could give you an accurate round count*within 10-20 rounds* on every weapon I own. Its pretty simple. I keep all of my gun related paper-work in a fire safe and to this, I have added a little note book. On the header, I have the gun type, serial number and caliber. I then write how many rounds, and of what type and on what date so I know the status of all of my guns. It sounds excessive, but its actually really easy to do... With guns that have springs/parts that require attention*MP5, Beretta M9,etc* it makes it easier to know when to change/replace parts. I would rather pro-actively replace a locking block or extractor spring before they shit the bed in the field. If you shoot as much as I do, you can run 10,000 rounds through a gun in no time. Knowing the round count is an important part of gun maitnance. Its also a critical concern when buying a used gun. Boy, would I like to know if a gun had 3,456,596,123 rounds fired through it before purchasing. My girlfriend says I am neurotic about things, but I can't imagine not knowing roughly how many rounds are fired through my guns or being bewildered/angered when a potential purchaser would inquire about the round count. |
If I see any ad of yours on the EE, I will reply to it and post a link to this thread. So help me God. You're a fucking ASSHOLE. |
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I think I will be avoiding you completely in the any section of the EE. ( posted by shadow870) go ahead and avoid me in the EE. what do i care? i sell my items at a reasonable price, and they always sell fast. if there is one less stroker bothering me, thats good. you and others totaly fail to grasp the situation that it is a USED gun which i obtained USED, and its being sold for a cheap price. what else is there to know. i also like the quote of the other poster that he is threatening me with being kicked off the board if " proven you are lying! " how would you do that? if i say a gun has been fired 500rds, how will you know? how do you know anyone is telling the truth when they say the gun they are selling has only been fired 500rds. thats what makes me laugh about you guys, people selling guns can tell you any amount of rds were fired and your going to take their word for it? that is exactly why it doesnt matter how many rds were fired. unless you were there to verify every rd, it doesnt matter. ive got a few guns that have had over 10,000 rds fired through them, and when i clean them, they look like brand new. so, i could sell them like new and advertise i only fired 500rds through them and no one would know any better! so, keep on asking for rd count and believing what people tell you, cause im sure they wouldnt lie!  kirk |
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I can easily tell the difference between 50 rounds, 500 rounds, 5000 rounds or 15,000 rounds. You can't? And you're calling ME a moron, and a dumbfuck??? I would like to elaborate on calling you a fucking asshole: You're an IGNORANT fucking asshole. Better? Oh, and hey, Asshole: I've got a new word for you, are you ready? It's a big one ... here we go ... "Capitalization"! Try using it when appropriate; maybe you won't look such a moron and a dumbfuck.  96-hour account lock for personal attacks. -- M4Madness |
Because guns that are actually used wear out. An AR that needs a new brl from a worn throat and a new bolt should be cheaper than one thats barely broken in. If the seller doesnt know how many rounds have been fired though it he probably didnt take very good care of it either. |
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None of my guns have round-counters, either. However, I think something like "Ballpark idea of how many rounds?" is a fair question. On some of my guns, I'd actually be able to answer fairly close. On others, not so much. I've never asked the question myself, but [at least in my book] I don't automatically think someone's an idiot for asking. Maybe it has more to do with "the totality of the circumstances" and *how* they ask the question, but that's just me. |
Think of it sort of like gunbroker. If I were to ask in one of your EE threads, and you were to make up a number like "five" or "one hundred" (like you said you would), but when I laid hands on it found the bbl actually had many thousands of rounds through it, I would note it in your feedback. I think that's more what he was talking about. If you said "500" and another poster and I compared notes, and you told him "501" by IM, that's a snore, and something completely different. |
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Wow, I can't believe that you actually posted that statement. I hope that you realize that any credibility or perceived integrity you may have enjoyed on this site vaporized the instant you typed and posted those words. You are now and will forever remain on my "Avoid at all cost" list, especially where EE transactions are involved. P.S. After a short review of the EE Code of Conduct I have decided to report you to the Mods there. You can explain your staement to them. |
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Well thank you sir. I don't think we're getting anywhere with my fellow Wisconsinite though. I think he's hung up on the fact that some people will lie about it. Including himself. Well, if that's the case, it would probably be evident after I saw it. And I would not be impressed with the individual. As noted by someone earlier. I don't know what is so hard about that concept. |
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As a moderator of the equipment exchange it is very disturbing to read the OP's posts here. As someone that has to deal with people that misrepresent items every single day and attempt to reach resolution, this thread sucks. If you don't have enough time in your life to try and give an honest answer to an inquiry in the EE about a round count, you probably don't have enough time to be using the EE at all. And I will end with stating that the personal attacks need to stop. NOW. Or those posting them will be risking an all-out account lock. |
so what are you saying? your kicking me off? big deal! if you guys are that shallow here, who cares! i have an excellant reputaion here, as well as over 175 posatives on gunbroker, 16 posatives on ebay, and an excellant reputation on sturm. once again, you as others fail to grasp the sitiuation! i made that statement to prove a point, that you cannot believe what people say when they tell you how many rds have been fired from a gun. its totally different than a car, as last time i checked, guns dont have rd counters on them! if you dont want to buy from, so be it! ive sold alot of guns and accessories, and never do i lie about the condition or shape its in. i am just be-wildered that so many of you here believe it when you are told how many rds have been fired through a gun. an example, i have a mac-11 that literally has been fired over 20,000 rds. when i clean it up, you would swear it only has about 1000 rds through it. who would know? so, i will just continue to tell people its USED, i bought it USED, so i have no idea how many rds were fired through it! some of you people will believe anything you hear! kirk |
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The issue that everyone is taking up with you is two-fold: 1. You maintain that round count is inconsequential. That's simply not true. Are you saying that gun parts don't wear out? Are you saying that there's no difference between a gun with 100 rounds through it vs. 10,000 rounds? I don't think so. I think your stance is that when you sell a gun, your price is SO fantastic that they shouldn't care how many rounds are through it, right? The problem is, if there's only 100 rounds through that cheaply priced gun, vs. 10k, well, then, that deal is that much sweeter. Case in point... if you're selling me an AK for $400 that has 1k though it, that's a much better deal that an AK for $400 with 20k rounds through it. A buyer is looking at having to dump more money into the one with the higher round count much sooner down the road. 2. Integrity. You've as much as stated that you're going to lie when you respond to potential buyers. Round count doesn't mean crap to you, but it does to others. If it doesn't mean anything to you, and you don't know what the round count is... just state that in your responses, or in the body of the ad. They you won't get any "strokers" wasting your time. One sentence from you saves you a ton of time in the future. Sounds like you're happier just having something to complain about and to feel "right" about, rather than saving yourself some aggravation. If you're looking to sell something, you attract more flies with honey... asshole salesmen rarely have good reps, nor repeat buyers. And if you don't care about your rep or the way the sale goes down, then how much faith can we have in the way you care for your firearms? |
Most everyone considered anything that has ever been fired to be "Used." |
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I think it's a completely valid question. Now if I ask, I'm not expecting an answer like: 6712 rounds, but I'd at least like a ball park figure. Surely most of us can remember if a particular gun has 100rds, 1000rds, or 10,000rds through it. Some of my guns get a lot of use, others not so much. One exception is if I'm the third, fourth, etc. owner of the gun. At that point most figures are going to be speculation. Now whether I ask the question or not will probably depend on the type of gun I'm looking at and/or the cost involved. I probably won't ask for round count on something basic like a used Glock, but I certainly would if it's a custom precision rifle worth a couple grand. Parts wear out, and hard use can take a toll on guns. Anyone arguing that round count is completely irrelevent, obviously doesn't shoot their guns very often. A better question is: why don't folks post pics, or why do they say 'pics on request', in their WTS ads? Most folks have digital cameras these days. First of all, seeing a pic gives me a little additional comfort in the validity of the seller. Sure someone could grab a pic off the internet and post a WTS ad, but for some reason seeing a pic makes me feel better. Second, it gives me an idea of the condition of the item. Third, it lets me know I'm purchasing the correct item. I'm sure I'm not the only person that bought something sight unseen, only to find out the seller misrepresented the item due to ignorance or deceit. Finally, it's a great marketing gimmick. I'm a visual person. A good description may get me interested, but that pic could seal the deal. Again, the desire to see a pic will vary based on the value of the item and how common it is. I probably don't care to see a pic of a brand new 30rd AR mag, but I definitely would like to see the pic of the $15,000 M16 (if I could afford one). |
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Kirk = Jerk You act shocked that anyone would even dare ask you to give and estimated round count on a gun you're selling??? It's a simple and fair question. What the hell is wrong with you man, are you a miserable person in general, or just when it comes to selling things on this board? What is it you do for a living.......Snake Oil Salesman? |
Exactly right. May not matter in some AR's or whatever. Sure matters in some firearms where you can flat shoot out the throat pretty quickly. Nobody buys a varmit rifle without asking...especially a bolt gun. I don't expect round counts to the number. But I expect to at least find out how often you have owned it and how often you have shot it and maybe some sort of guess. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - why, why, why, why? (Page 1 of 2)
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