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Posted: 2/7/2008 4:29:06 AM EDT
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Since it looks like the DoD is finally starting to seriously consider replacing the M249, or atleast supplementing it, what do you guys think should be considered? When not 20+ years old and reasonably maintained/equipped, they work okay but there are much better SAW type weapons availible. I am really disapointed that we didn't adopt the MG82 SPAM "Ameli" on any large basis. It was in preliminary use with some US special operations units as an interim weapon, but it didn't seem like it was seriously considered. With a weight around 12 lbs unloaded and a possible cyclic rate of 800-1200rpm, its definaly an awesome weapon. Its nothing more than a modernized 5.56 MG42/MG3. The MG42 is still going strong chambered in 7.62x51 as the MG3. Its one of the best GPMG's out there. The Germans definatly knew what they were doing and had the best MG's of WWII. Firearm technology hasn't changed all that much since then and I think the Ameli would have been an excellent choice. There is something to be said about roller-retarted blowback in MG's. Another awesome weapon that shouldn't have been blackballed was the HK23A1. This two was used as an interim weapon and is still in use with some SOCOM units. Unfortunatly, enginerers took the trigger pack apart beyond the factory reccomendations, put it back together incorrectly and this deemed it "unsafe". Just about anyone could buffalo thier way through a weapon and rebuild it in an unsafe manner. Ask any redneck who has attempted to alter the secondary sear in thier Mini 14.  I wish the Stoner 86 had gotten further, or even KAC Stoner 63's. Surely, production and serious testing could have simplified the 63 and made it easier to use. Boy, it seems like the Stoner 63 was everything the DoD wants today in a modular weapon. I am interested to see how the Ultimax 100 does. The USMC is already testing it,but like the Stoner 63, just because they like it doesn't mean they will be allowed to have it. This weapon has alot of advantages, one of which is its designer... Anyone have any thoughts or opinons on what our next SAW should be? |
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world.guns.ru/machine/mg20-e.htm world.guns.ru/machine/mg21-e.htm www.ultimaxsaw.com/ www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_060420_MK4,,00.html www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=853 Either the Ultimax or the AUG HB/SAW Would be better IMO. Both have the ability to be used as SAWs or infantry rifles and are lighter, smaller, and don't need belts. |
The Ameli doesn't have anything going for it to make it a viable candidate for a modern LMG. The M249 is better than the Ameli. |
+1 The M249 is the best there is at the moment. |
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I'd keep developing the MK46 Mod 0. It has some much needed improvements over the 249, and it deletes the stupid "emergency magazine feed" system that never works right anyway and causes unecessary complexity regarding the belt feed system. The result is lighter weight, fewer parts, greater reliability. I think this would be a pretty good start, and then tweak it from here: 
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Other than personal opinion, what makes you say that? I have heard very little good or bad about the Ameli and would be curious to know more... |
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I didn't mean to advocate replacing the M249 with the SPAM, just that I have always harbored anger over the initial trials and have always loved that gun. A minature MG42, how cool is that? I guess I was trying to point out that this gun seemed to have alot going for it, but with the exception of specialized uses, it was largely ignored by by the US. For the modern military, the M249 is more "appropriate" but better, I don't know about that. +/- 64% soldier confidence isn't enough IMO. Even the much maligned M16 and M9 are in the 80's. I think our soldiers should have at least 80 or 90% confidence in thier weapon. The current M249 is the biggest basket case currently in our small arms arsenal. As for the Mk46Mo1, its still a M249/Minimi, albeit a more special operations friendly one. Besides, the SPAM is still lighter The magazine feed of the M249 could be a very valuable addition. I don't know how feasable a 30 round magazine would be in a 700rpm LMG, but whatever...In any event, its development was incomplete and its a waste of metal on current guns. In some instances a magazine fed LMG can be beneficial, enter the Beta Cmag. We did testing to see if it would be feasable to use Cmags in our M249's to simplify resupply and aid in ammo commonality. It was a horrible failure, the magazine feed is just incompatible with the weapon...If a magazine fed LMG is needed that badly, how about we just dust off some old LMG or HBAR uppers? By all accounts, the Ultimak 100 is the best LMG or LSW out there. Speaking of LSW's, the Brits are dusting thier L85 based LSW's off in favor of the Minimi as they too have been displeased...I think this would be a definate improvement over the current M249, but it will never come to pass. Sadly, it doesn't seem like the DoD is interested in rifles or MG's made by anyone other than Colt/FN. I would also like to see the HKMG43 be seriously evaluated. This time, hopefully the engineers won't tinker with HK's entry. The MG43 looks like its a going to be a great SAW, better than the Ultimak? Thats tough...but I would be interested to see how it does, should testing commence. |
Isn't the Ameli more closely related to the Cetme than to the MG42? |
The Ameli is a stamped gun with a stamped receiver and stamped shroud that in no way lends itself to the mounting of accessories or being modular. |
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I was issued a M249 SAW on my first tour in Iraq. It worked very well. I really don't think that there is a better SAW out there. http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj106/Smittyd5r/Iraq/NimrudIraqPhinx1.jpg http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj106/Smittyd5r/Iraq/GunTruck.jpg |
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Yeah, the weight sucked and the ammo boxes sucked, but I kept hearing that the Para wasn't nearly as bad with the "nutsack" as the soft ammo pouch was called. I did like having true FA on tap though. I really didn't like how it seemed to be designed to snag on everything it possibly could. Just sling one and head under some camo netting, might as well go face-dive in some triple-strand and then try to climb back out. Okay, it wasn't THAT bad, but still, it was designed far before FN had a concept of "ergonomics". Function-wise, most of ours held up decently (I was responsible for a dozen, including my own), didn't have to send them out to Depot very often, usually the barrel removal handle breaking off was the worst of it. Worst I saw was a runaway gun, from a piece of brass where it didn't belong. We managed to get the belt broken, and luckily we were running blanks. |
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Mine ran fine, but it was old as shit. Newer SAWs would solve a lot of problems with them. This wasn't mine, but the wear is about the same.          Serial # is in the 9000s, so this and my old SAW were probably some of the first produced for our military. I talked to one of the guys in my old platoon before they deployed last year. He said they got all new SAWs. Right after I left of course. Me "disposing" of some ammo in 2006. www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaNy77Dxxcg |
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i wonder how far the MG-43 has made it. I read a good article in SAR about it a few years ago...including a belt pull from standing on top of a 8ft ladder, and a 1000rnd single burst with no problems. I think it was lighter than the SAW as well. Might be worth looking into. CMS |
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