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Posted: 6/3/2007 5:56:50 PM EDT
| My dad gave me his Marlin Model 336 .30/30 when I was a kid. It started shooting bad back in 1987, the bullets were striking the target in a keyhole fashion. This gun is from the early 60's and has the Microgroove barrel. It was probably shot 10-20 times a year, could it have been "shot-out"? I just tried letting bore foam soke in it for awhile then took it to the range, and had the same results. What is the general barrel life like for hunting type rifles?? This seems odd that this gun would be shot out in that amount of time. Should I replace the barrel or put a better solvent in it?? |
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Seems odd. If you are getting keyholing, it is usually a matter of shooting too heavy of a bullet in too slow of a twist barrel. But this doesn't make sence in your application, unless you are shooting some really weird handloads. What type of ammo are you using? Barrel life in a 'hunting' rifle that is expected to shoot 'hunting rifle' groups should be in excess of 20,000 rounds. Especially with a 30-30. |
| To answer first question, with bore foam as only solvent..patches are clean. To answer the second question, 150 or 170 grain factory loads. I know that during the rifles life, my dad's and my brother's bore cleaning habits were "less than standard"! Is there any suggestion for a really good bore solvent/cleaner to try? |
| As far as I know, no unjacketd lead...I'll do the hoppes though with a bore brush etc. I am sort of wondering "what happened" to the barrel. It's not my primary hunting weapon, I just want to make it shoot again so if my kids would want it they'd have "paps" gun. |
I love those things. I had am old hunting rifle that would never come clean...I spent a couple months soaking down the barrel and scrubbing it and the patches never came out clean, the lead out stuff did wonders. |
Any nicks or dents in the crown? |
Wipe Out. If there's shit in the barrel, wipe out will get it out. If wipe-out fails, it's probably not a cleaning issue. |
| Get some of this Barnes CR-10 Copper Solvent to clean the barrel with. |
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I personally am having a hard time believing that a little copper fouling is going to has this kind of effect on the rifle. I would think that there is some other issue like crown damage, throat erosion, or barrel bulges. There could also be rifling damage at the muzzle due to excessive cleaning, I have a FAL that is like that. Clean it really well and if it still doesn't shoot well take it to a gunsmith. |
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My father had one that had damage done to the action, I never saw it in it's damaged state but my understanding was that it was the bolt was not being pushed fully into battery causing a gas leak which could cause low velocity and therefore low RMP destabalizing the bullet. If you examine the 336 it doesn't look like it would be possible to discharge without the bolt fully in battery but who knows, it may be worth examining. Have you been able to recover any of the bullets, if it's not following the rifling (shot out barrel) you can usually see the straight streak type marks on the bullet if you can recover one that isnt too damaged. I doubt this is the case thought, although I haven't seen a shot out 336 I imagine the throat would be visibly deteriorated. |
| Thanks for the responses, I have looked down the barrel and the rifling is quite "thin" for about the first 3/8 of an inch down, then it is more pronounced. I don't know if it is because it's fouled w/garbage or damaged from bad cleaning practices done in the past. I do also know that the extractor is bad...don't know if this has anything to do with the bolt not locking up properly etc. as Eukatee pointed out. I'll try to get it shooting well again, if the problem is not corrected, could this be reapired w/out replacing he barrel? And is it worth it with an old 336?? |
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Get some real copper solvent and a new bronze bore brush. Use a real cleaning rod and scrub that bore down with the copper solvent. I recommend Pro-Shot Copper Solvent IV. Follow with dry patches and repeat until no more dark stuff comes out. Then let it soak with fresh solvent on patches. Run a dry patch after 15 minutes and if there is any green, repeat the brushing. Micro Groove copper fouling is harder to remove and is very bad to accuracy. You could also try the electronic copper fouling removal system. Unless the bore is rusted, they will not wear out. |
Not a problem...when you push a brush through the bore, you will feel the resistance. If there is any skipping or tight spots, you have an uneven fouling. Most of the time, the bulk of the fouling is near the chamber. What happens is this fouling swages the bullet to a smaller diameter and it then tumbles out of the barrel. Until you get nice, smooth brush drag, the bore is not clean. I had an old .22 Hornet that was claimed to be "shot out". I did this trick, even using JB Bore Paste at times (not necessary with good solvents) and after a week of cleaning (just nights), it grouped under an inch at 100 yards with factory ammo. And I really like Pro Shot Copper Solvent IV. It does stuff you will not believe, like cleaning old circular saw blades CLEAN of dried, gummy sap in a matter of seconds. And it also cleans carbon from diesel injectors better than any other solvent I have tried. Yes, even nasty DI diesel pistons are easily cleaned with this stuff. And it is fast on copper too. Just remember, it attacks brass too! Like cleaning rod brass jags and brushes so wash it off. And since it is water soluable, just rinse it off with WATER! Removes oil stains from clothing too! Just pretreat and launder as usual! No, I don't sell it. I only swear by it! |
| First round of cleaning today, with Hoppes No. 9, Hoppes Elite, Outters Solvent, and then patches w/some Flitz. Brushed, patched, repeat, etc. for two hours. I got a lot of green patches out. I'm gonna look for the Proshot this week, then repeat all over again!! I'll shoot it after I try the Pro-Shot after a couple of nights. |
SURPRIZE, SURPRISE! If you are getting the green out, just keep it up. 15 minutes every night and in a week, the rifle will eventually be clean. Keep in mind the Pro Shot Copper Solvent will come out a bit darker, a bit blue. But it all is the same. If you cannot find the Pro Shot, the Elite will do. |
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