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Posted: 7/23/2006 3:45:57 PM EDT
| Anyone here use a Scout rifle? Jeff Coopers concept seems great, but how practicle is it? What type of shooting do you use your scout's for? I know that Styer still makes scout rifles, but Savage doesn't seem to make them anymore. Who else made or makes Scout rifles? |
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The Survival Forum guys had a thread not too long ago... Ahh, here it is: www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=123&t=479951 My Steyr shoots GI ammo fine (though it is tough to extract), and I have no problems with the crosshairs out to 300m easily - so take some of the complaints with the usual grain of salt that you need here on arfcom. My biggest complaint is the "butter knife" bolt handle. One of these days I will swap it out. |
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Wow! Someone referenced my thread? Accepted at last! Anyway, after intensive research on the subject I figured out that while the steyr is a good gun it is a little costly for what you get. The only thing one misses out on if you build your own scout gun is the integral bipod and the cooler than hell stylings of the scout rifle itself. There was a dude who responded in that thread about building his own scout rifle and that is probably the way to go IMHO. A scout rifle is primarily suitable for hunting while on the move at 300yds or so. It's tradmark is a forward mounted optic, some would say that shooting sling is also necessary. In addition to hunting, research has shown that people don't like getting hit with .308 either. It is a rifle designed for precision on the go without a semi-auto mechanism. If you hunt and hike then it works. I finally decided I would be better served with a FAL/HK in a lighter weight format. Hope this helps. |
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The Steyr Scout rifle is one of the weapons that survived my purging of the gun safes, and concentrating on getting better with fewer weapons rather than a wide variety. I have found mine a good hunting rifle and have killed a variety of varimits and game from 2 to 275 yards with mine. I started looking at any weapon I own as something I may have to fight with and added ten round mags with that in mind. I also hunt in areas with both 4 and 2 legged varmints, and for a bolt action its not a bad fighting gun. If you read the thread Bohr_Adam posted there are more details on my set up, which differs a bit from stock and package deals. Also the set up does not work for some people. Cooper's Ideal rifle does not fit every one and its not quite the uber GP rifle but for me it works rather well. I have used more conventional Remington, Savage rifles, and sporterized Mausers and 1903's hunting rifles. For me none are as handy or as easy to hit with in the field (not the square range) as my scout YMMV. The long eye relief 2.5 power lupy scope is not quite as fast as a 1 power red dot but it is much easier to hit with at 300 yards then a 1 power scope. I have handled the Savage scout and it's not a bad rifle, but it is no longer produced and was made before Savage improved their triggers. No experance with the ruger but 16 inch 308's are a bit barky among other things. Aside from factory rifles there are a lot of pseudo-scouts made up by various gun smiths or hobbyists, if you have specific ideas in mind you can build one for your ideal of a handy field rifle. |
After seeing the Ruger Frontier Rifle , I was back pumped about the prospects of a new play thing in the toy box. Got to looking at the ballistics of it all and noted that you could get really close to Col. Cooper's specs with a AR15 with either a 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel upper on it. Given that I have not to date seen any 6.5 Grendel ammo on the shelf at the local toy store but they're getting 6.8SPC; I'm going to build my "Scout Rifle' based on a CavArms lower with an 18" 6.8SPC barrel from Randall Rausch to look similar to CavArms Practical Carbine: But without the GL step and adding a Yankee Hill YHM-9394 front sight. May put a free float tube if need be to improve the accuracy. My approach to it. wganz ¶ |
| Scroll down to "The Scout Rifle Pages" and read up:www.frfrogspad.com/#Scout |
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I am thinking of doing one out of my M44, but it also lacks the requirement of a box magazine. I have seen some lighter weigth 700 that could be considered scout but they also seem not to fit the bill. The closest thing I personally would use is my Enfield No5 Mk1 Jungle carbine, it fits the bill perfectly and i can hit the gong at 300 yard with just iron sights. The only problem is I would never butcher mine with a forward scope mount so I am now hunting for another less fine example to butcher. Than again the No5 Mk1 already meet the "Scout" concept as is since it has ghost ring sights built in. I guess the British had it figure out before Cooper though about it. 
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Pics Pics.
IIRC,the requirement is for either a box mag or be able to use stripper clips. |
Yes. Taken from an article on surplusrifle.com... The full lists of features generally required for a “true” scout rifle are as follows: 1. Total weight, around 6.6-7.7pounds 2. Overall length, around 36 inches 3. Bolt action must be capable of accepting stripper clips or detachable magazine 4. Caliber must be .308 Winchester or equivalent 5. Primary sighting system consisting of forward mounted optics in the 2x to 3x range with backup iron sights 6. Sling 7. Onboard ammunition carriers 8. Bipod (not required, but recommended) 9. Must be capable of hitting “real world” targets at “realistic ranges” |
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Generally, the scout rifle is good for short/mid range engagements. The long eye relief and shorter barrel allow you to quickly acquire the target. I like a cheap factor involved because I would feel pretty bad about banging around a high dollar rifle out in the bush. +1 for the mil-surp scout. I use a Polish M44 that I got for $80. It had a good bore but the stock looked like someone had driven railroad spikes with it. I added a 4X pistol scope and a shorter forearm stock. Bonuses are the CHEAP readily available milsurp 7.62X54R ammo, low cost, & relatively light weight. Cons are no box mag. I do have stripper clips and I'm getting pretty fast with 'em. Besides if I can't hit whatever I'm aiming at with 5 shots, well thats just bad. It's not like its going to be shooting back. |
----------------------------------------------------------------------- I admire Savage rifles and will probably have another one eventually but-------- I bought one of their "Scout" rifles a few years ago and it was one of those firearms that didn't work out for me. I liked the configuration; the light weight, the iron sights and the scope position. I put a 2.5 EER Leupold on it and away I went. !. It had the flimsiest tupperware stock I have ever seen but as long as you didn't try to support the fore-end it didn't effect accuracy. A tight sling was out of the question. 2. The forward scope mount provided was not workable. It had two screws in the receiver and one in the barrel and between barrel vibratiions and heat expansion it shot all over the place. Sent it back to factory and they shot it with some unknown sighting system. They sent it back with the test targets. They fired five shots each time and only counted the best three. WTF I put conventional mounts and scope on it and with my handloads it grouped quite well. 3. While I owned it the bolt head swivel pin sheared twice and that was the last straw. I understand that Savage has made the striker smaller now so the hole in the swivel pin does not weaken it as much. It was a very useful configuration but very poorly executed. Regards, Mild Bill |
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cooper is great, but the scout concept blows my problems with it: 1. why the hell would you want to add weight and complexity with an almost useless 2X scope? anything you can hit with that, you could hit with irons 2. why the hell would you sacrifice the beauty of semiauto fire to save a pound? a 16" FAL/M1A/AR10 with an aimpoint/low, variable power scope will do anything a scout will do. <8.5lbs a mag fed, appropriately barreled bolt gun from any of the major makers with a variable power scope will do anything a scout will do, for WAY less $, if you feel the need to exercise between shots. did Cooper take physics? pushing the weight of the scope forward, increases the effort required to move the other (business) end of the gun. this would negate any speed advantage of having the scope mounted forward, no? and it's still just a 2X scope, not something infinitely more useful like a 1.5X-5X, or even a 3-9X. WTF good is a 600M rifle with a 200M scope? |
| Well I can tell that after shooting both a regualr scope on 4x and then a forward mounted scope on 4x I could hit targets a lot faster with the forward mounted scope and I could hit faster at 100 with the scope than irons. I am not sure about all the physics involved but I know I shoot better/faster with the forward mounted scope. |
Don't blame Cooper for your apparent lack of skill. Anyone who has walked for days will shed pounds anywhere they can. This is not a rifle for someone LOOKING for a fight. In fact, the one feature I would add is the ability to separate into two parts for discretionary carry. |
I can tell by your questions that you have never handled or shot a well set-up Scout rifle for a reasonable period of time. That's no disgrace, as there are many pseudo-scouts, and few properly done-up examples. I lack time right now to address all of your points, but I suggest you read the link I provided above. Graduating students at Cooper's school used to bust hand-thrown clays with their Scout rifles. Maybe that will tell you something. |
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