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Posted: 6/28/2006 1:29:42 PM EDT
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Guys I just got my FS2000 today that I dropped 2200.00 on. My first impressions were: "wow theres allot of plastic in this gun" I opened the box and after cleaning all the broken styrofoam from the box out of every little opening on thie rifle, I was able to get a feel for the "alien killer" I was impressed with the lightness of it and with the features like the forward ejection, easy mag release, and ambi sling attachments. The take down was also a pleasure. One pin/button and the whole barrel assembly slides right off. This however is where my stomach sunk to my feet. So many parts are what looks and feels to be a low quality, cheap polymer. there is plastic on just about everything. The hammer is even plastic. I do not like that more of the internals are not reinforced with somthing else. Hopefully I am premature on this, but I see areas that may cause a few issues. The groove for the bolt to silde in and out that is part of the stock ( kind of chiseled into it. The part of the bolt that touches this is metal, but to me this seems like a high wear area. There are so many blends of platic and metal on this rifle, I dont really know where to start so I just took pictures for you all to see what you are getting into if you buy one of these. Again, I just took it out of the box and have not fired it once. I do not claim to be an expert either. I am writing this simply to give you the first impressions of an average,everyday joe. The FS2000 looks good and feels great, I just hope it is as good as I had been dreaming about all this time. Afterall my Fivesever IOM has never failed me once. I will admit though after see the overall construction, I am thinking really hard about getting one of those Robinson XCRs instead saving a little cash. At least I know the XCR is built like a tank. [img=img336.imageshack.us/img336/240/dsc013934dt.th.jpg] [img=img174.imageshack.us/img174/6252/dsc013952pa.th.jpg] [img=img527.imageshack.us/img527/5812/dsc013960qu.th.jpg] [img=img336.imageshack.us/img336/880/dsc013970xk.th.jpg] [img=img336.imageshack.us/img336/3089/dsc013980om.th.jpg] [img=img403.imageshack.us/img403/8915/dsc014003me.th.jpg] [img=img403.imageshack.us/img403/6135/dsc014058mj.th.jpg] |
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I asked a friend who works for one of the big distributors what he thought of the gun and his answer was much like yours but with one difference. He said that one of the FN machine guns has been out quite a while (I know absolutely nothing about FN machine guns.) and that he thought that it too looked like a problem waiting to happen. BUT no problems showed up. That the police had bought a lot of them and no problems showed up. So while he had reservations about the FN2000 based on past experience with other FN products hethought that it just might work as advertised. That said, I'm not going to be one of the first customers for this thing. I'm going to wait until I know that they will stand up to a lot of abuse. |
 That is damn near exactly my thoughts, but the funny thing is that I am 99.9999% sure that I would treat a $2000+ rifle like a premie baby.  God are gun owners a weird bunch.
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I bought a FS2000 this past Saturday and I am very impressed, though I have also not had a chance to fire it. I'm a bit confused though, did you not read any of the posts on this and other forums before purchasing? The internals of the rifle have been discussed. Why would you purchase the rifle if you are uncomfortable with the polymer parts? |
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When I retired I bought myself several retirement presents. One was a Romano Spencer rifle. The gun was so beautifully made that I eventually sold it because it was going to make me literally sick if I scratched it up. Wish I hadn't done that because the price is now almost double and few, if any, are being made. So I took another one of those rifles and started shooting it hard. Did make me ill when it got scratched BUT I bought it to shoot and that is what I'm doing. When I buy one of these I'm going to shoot it a lot! |
FWIW the July 2006 SWAT mag featured the PS90, and the author commented on the heavy use of injection molded plastic (and didn't use the term space age composite polymer...) The first pics of the FS2000 I saw from the 2004? or 2005 NRA show taken by Bradley Hinton showed the top access cover to be cheaply made with cheap looking springs. The AUG isn't exactly the same as the PS90 or FS2000. FWIW my PS90 hammer, with only 200rd fired and several hundred dry fires, clearly shows the firing pin imprint and some minor abrasion from the breech block sliding over it. The PS90 uses plastic in the same manner as the FS2000, and they even use plastic as a brass deflector (inside the chute) which has been rather chewed up by spent brass. I put velcro over it only because the brass appears to be harder than the polymer, and so it'll whittle away the polymer as I fire more rounds. My AR15 brass deflectors are covered in brass  The F2000 has only been around for at most 5 years. I haven't heard of major units adopting the F2000 for widespread use (in the same capacity as the M4, or at the very least the P90). The recent purchase of 6k+ units by the Republic of Slovenia, isn't likely to test the durability or mettle of the F2000. The P90, OTOH, has been in service for at least 10 years. The AUG is at least 25? years old. The USSS ERT uses them, but most of the photos of them in action indicate they do not primarily use the reflex sight, the USG "black reticle" reflex sight, or even the regular P90s. They primarily use the P90TRs with Aimpoints or EOTechs mounted on top. I think a few of the P90s had the USG rail with an Aimpoint or EOTech. There were a few FS2000 owners that experienced 2-3 round bursts (Cry havoc and a few others), FN thinks it is a faulty disconnector. Is the barrel free floated? Or is most of it inside the receiver? The PS90 barrel sits inside the receiver and isn't free floated. In fact, it uses the receiver as a "bushing". While the user cannot apply forces directly to the barrel, I think the receiver can still interfere with barrel harmonics and thus, there's a hit in accuracy. How much force is required on the trigger? My PS90 trigger is around 7.5-8 lbf. The hammer group of the FS2k certainly looks the same as the PS90, which is why I am curious. |
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Last month i picked up the FS 2000 and with the optical help of the Trijicon NSNTA01 the rifle is one damm nice piece of equipment. As long as you use quality ammo she runs all day and delivers what you need at the range in a goose bumps and smiles. Yes, the platform uses a wide variity of plastic materials and mechanical concepts developed by Styre in use with the AUG of yesterday which work vary well. I don't see any big issues with this system and the extended tunnel /tube eject system is really something radical which offers different ideas and modern thinking which is original out of the box concepts that one should expect from a leader in weapon research and deployment such as FN. I remember all the flack Styre received about the AUG in the eighties and every one was whining about leaking gas systems to the plastic fire control unit. Twenty five plus years later the AUG is still here and one of the sexiest guns on the planet. Belive me i have seen my share of AR part failures in past years and AR15 is no angle and has its own history of problems. I think we all are damm lucky to have the opertunity to buy these guns and have something really unique and different. 
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As Ned Christiansen explained in the SWAT article, there are several different types of injection molded plastic. Ones that last forever, ones that meet life expectancy requirements, and ones that fall apart when you get home. Typically, reputable vendors will try to meet life expectancy requirements and nothing more. Some will go the extra mile and beef it up. The AUG has had 25+ years to improve (if necessary) while the F2000 has only had 5 years to do so with the P90 having a slight edge of about 12 years (entering service in 1994). |
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Guys. Just got back from the range. This thing shoots like a dream. I put a Leupold QC/T on and they compliment each other very well. I used a 20 round and a 30 round mag with some cheap brass and even some wolf ammo. There was absolutely not one problem. The rifle fed excellent and it was like magic how the brass just falls out of the front. It is not ejected or thrown from the rifle but actually just kind of falls out. People were amazed. The wolf brass would not eject on normal gas setting but when I adjusted the gas, it fed flawless. I was also amazed at how clean the internals are after shooting. Dispite the plastics, It was a pleasue and fun rifle. Rapid rife was kinda tough though. If I could improve one element on this rifle it would be the 11lb trigger. Im sure this will be an easy fix and a popular modification for all the smiths out there. Im sure we will also see barrel mods in the future for personalizing muzzle devices. Heres a pic of the FS2000 with the leupold and 20 rnd mag. Ill put my sling on it when I figure the darn thing out . I am trying to rig my old G36 tac sling to the FS2000. Have fun guys. Im am feeling allot better about my 2000.00 now. here are some pics to show eye relief of the scope. NOTE: this is the exact setup as in the the latest American Riflemag magazine. The author says that the leupold makes the rifle "Top Heavy" I could not DISAGREE more. As far as weight is concerned, it is almost unnoticable. Thar author almost made me not buy the leupold for this weapon, but I used my better judgement and tried it. Im so glad that I did/ The Field of view is the best I have ever senn on a 1-3x CQB optic. I like it better then my TA01 NSN. I also concidered the new ELCAN DR and ELCANS new ATI ATOS Combat site with the new DMR reticle. I talked to CAL's Sporting armory and they told me the Leupold is a much better system. I have done business with Cals for my H&K needs and I think they are a pretty reputable source of info. However, the ELCAN stuff is so new that good comparative info is faily limited. Here is the web site for the New ELCAN. The brochures are in .pdf form. If you guys have any question or picture requests email me at [email protected]. http://www.armament.com/optical_weapon_sights.htm http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7712/12fx1.th.jpg http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/1454/21qq.th.jpg http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/4429/37xr.th.jpg http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/6347/43of.th.jpg http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/1365/51uj.th.jpg |
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To M38. Nope I didnt read any forums before purchasing becuase I couldnt find any. I preordered a looong time ago and tried to dig up all i could on the rifle. I still had no idea on all the internals. This is also a reason for my post. Not to complain, but to advise to others. I am not one to quick judge this rifle as I tried my best to choose my wording carefully as to not get flamed. If I have posted wrong or misleading information please send me an email. I am not saying the the polymer is a bad thing either. I was just surprised is all. Im sure FN knows what they are doing. Which the science and engineering of today, this new polymer maybe be revolutionary to the small arm industry. I hope you all enjoy the rifle as much as I do. Take care |
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If Wolf ran fine in my FS2000, I'd keep using it. Brass doesn't seem to be any easier on the FN plastic (PS90 uses only brass ammo and it cuts the plastic all the same). Can you set the gas regulator for in-between settings? The fully closed is usually used in adverse conditions where NATO spec ammo is used by sand/grit/mud is packing up inside the "action". |
 Whoaaa, gentlemen. I am extremely envious. I've only just seen the FS2000 for the first time in the July Rifleman magazine and it was at that time that my 16 year old son and I looked at each other, grinned and said yessss, we want one! (not that we will realistically be able to get one any time soon) Congratulations on your purchases! The only thing that just might be a little bit sweeter would be the F2000.
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In the beating the dead horse department, I spoke to an FN rep on the phone. They do not recommend using Wolf or other Eastern Block ammo because according to them, the rounds are somewhat oversized and will stretch the chambers or something like that. So if it bothers that ammo that the manufacturer says is bad for your gun will not function reliably in it, be my guest. |
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I wonder if FN will release the FN2000 optic for the FS. Like HK did with the sl8 dual optics. I prettymuch doubt it though since the flash hider is non removable?? I still dont get this one. Is this rifle in all reality considered a thumbhole stock. Isnt that one of the former "evil" features? I dont understand why we dont have the option to put some other muzzle device on if we wanted to. Also, We tried putting a beta mag in the FS. LOL not even close. Now, theres talk of the new sig 556, and the styer Aug A3. I think Im going to have a nervous breakdown with all the new things to think about. In a way I hope the sig and styer are so over priced that I dont even have to worry with them. Its enought speding hours a day trying to read all the feedback on the FS and the XCR. |
ROFL, that's a pretty weak explanation. Wolf is made to 223 Remington (size), and generally the steel cases don't expand as much as the brass. Wolf is also underpowered compared to the SAAMI / 5.56NATO specifications. If anything, the cases don't expand as much as brass and it is underpowered so there's less wear and tear on your moving parts. If there's a genuine technical reason to not use Wolf in a FS2000, I haven't heard one yet. I might believe FN if they said the steel cases would wear out the plastic ejector or the ejection chute. The spent brass can take bites out of my PS90 plastic. However, it is your $2200+ investment, so to cover your ass, follow their advice. If it were my FS2000, I'd rapid-fire 1000+ rd of Wolf at the range to make sure it runs flawlessly. I asked Sig Arms about using Wolf in their 556. They didn't have a problem with it. Bushmaster uses and approves the use of Wolf in their rifles. These are 2 very reputable manufacturers and neither of them were talking about AKs. |
Lowest average prices are $17-$20/50rd, the cheapest you'll probably see it is around 30-35c/rd. The brass has a polymer coating for easier extraction and for proper feeding in the 50rd magazines. If you resize the case, there's a chance the polymer is scrapped off. |
So you would go against manufacturer's warnings and risk ruining a $2k firearm? You seem awfully concerned about this issue considering, if I understand you correctly, you don't own the gun in question. Why not call FN and get the complete answer for yourself. Now I'm not expecting to be in Durka Durkastan with my gun, and to have to use Durkastani 5.56mm ammo. So for me, it's a non-issue. |
I'm waiting for the price to drop and for the bugs to be worked out (one bug is that some hammer groups allow 2-3 round bursts, the owners are sending their rifles in to FN Herstal). I'm also not wasting a long distance call to hear yet more BS about not shooting Wolf. "It'll steal your girlfriend, kill your dog, take your pickup truck, and drink all of your beer!!!" I would shoot steel cased 5.7x28 through my PS90 if such a cartridge existed. "the rounds are undersized and will stretch the chamber" is a pretty wild claim. V42, I am not doubting that this is what they said, I am just stating that this is a wild claim: 1). Wolf 223 Remington is actually loaded to slightly below SAAMI-spec pressure. 2). The steel cases do not expand as much as the brass cases, therefore allowing a bit more carbon to blowback into the bolt/action. 3). Neither of these are problems with the short stroke gas piston systems like the one used in the F2000. 4). With a direct impingement AR15, Wolf isn't any dirtier than the XM855PD or less smelly than XM855PD. Thus, FN's claim that the cases are "undersized" is baloney (look up differences between 223 Rem and 5.56 NATO case sizing), and that it will stretch the chamber is also baloney. There are AR15s with 10k+ rounds of Wolf lacquer/polymer coated steel cased ammo through the barrel w/o excessive headspacing issues. AGAIN, it is your $2000-2200+ investment, so if you want to CYA, then follow the manufacturer's recommendations. I am just saying that when I get my FS2000, I plan to shoot nothing but Wolf through it, just like my Glock and AR15s. FN's claims might be true if their barrels were made of jello. If anyone wants to bring up the "would you use 87 octane in your Benz?" Hell yes. The knock sensor will take care of any detonation due to the faster burning gas
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Okay, you are willing to drop over a grand on a firearm but not a few bucks on a phonecall to talk to the manufacturer.
That's slightly oversized bullets not undersized.
No, its a matter of the slightly oversized bullets (I believe I heard that some run about four thousanths of an inch oversized) stretching the chamber and bore so that it reduces the accuracy of the gun.
Have fun. |
...and speak to someone who may or may not have the real technical reason why wolf can or cannot be used in the FS2000? No thanks. Everyone knows how reliable FN USA's information can be. The FS2000 is made in Belgium and I'd probably have to contact an engineer in Belgium to hear the reason. Remember that their US branch did not design or manufacture the F2000. They may have helped finalize the design to be approved for importation, but the principal system is Belgian same as the P90/PS90.
I took out a caliper and measured my XM193 and Wolf 223 Remington cartridges. They measured the same down to the thousandths of an inch except for the part near the rim which isn't touching the chamber walls (Wolf was slightly larger in that spot). However, Wolf is known to not expand as much as the brass cases: The Box Of Truth - Shooting Wolf Wolf is also known to be loaded below SAAMI pressure spec (much less than 5.56 NATO spec for M193 or M855). If anything, the Wolf cartridges will result in less wear and tear of the barrel than shooting XM855PD or other 5.56NATO cartridges.
Will do! Thanks! I've already used about 5000 rd of Wolf w/o any problems. The headspacing in my AR15 barrels checks out great. There are other users here with 10k+ rd of Wolf through their AR15s w/o any problems. Most of the problems people experienced with shooting Wolf in an AR15 are due to the underpowered ammo, which is not a problem for an adjustable gas regulator on a gas piston system. |
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I have stayed away from 223's in recent years because if I was going to shoot one I wanted to use cheap ammuniiton. That is the only way I could shoot a lot. Met a fellow from the local swat team one day. He said that on his personal gun that was all he ever shot. It was a bushmaster. Keep the bolt face and the chamber clean, he said, and it would work well. That was certainly my experience. Thousands of rounds later, assuming I cleaned those parts every 500 rounds or so, I had no problems. My Armalite 180B, however, absolutely hated the stuff. It would jam once per magazine on average. Called ARmalite about that. They could have cared less. So much for customer service. |
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Yeah, I wouldn't put wolf through a $2k rifle...nooo way that stuff is dirty as sin and made in Eastern Europe (can we say poor quality control)...I mean really why take the chance? Is it worth it to save a few bucks on ammunition to put in jeopardy a rifle you've got a ton of money invested in. I mean I don't know about how you purchased your FNS2K, but I was on a waiting list for months for my darn PS90. I have a PS90 and so far I'm pretty impressed with the way the internals are holding up, although I've only put about 200 rounds down range with it. I couldn't agree more with the comment that the trigger on the FNS2K or the PS90 for that matter needs to be a lot lighter for better rapid fire shots and follow up accuracy. My AUG A-2 has a trigger tammer and believe me it was a God send. |
| Ultramax, Gun show reloads, Maine Cartridge reloads, and 3rd-8th tier Military reject ammo is more dangerous to use than Wolf steel cased ammo. I've never had to sit down and inspect the case necks for dents or pretzels inside of the cases with Wolf/Tula 223 ammo. |
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