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Posted: 3/5/2006 5:39:36 PM EDT
I've thought about this before, and what the practicality would be, so just for giggles I thought I'd post it has anyone ever thought of, or heard of bullets coated in some form of poison like Curari (Curari is the poison used to coat poison arrows, and darts in certain areas of the world, I think it's effects are only temporary, but the effect is near instantaneous....) for example, or maybe capsules of something in a hollow point?.... Maybe I've just been watching to much TV tonight, and should go to bed....
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:42:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 5:44:11 PM EDT by Colt_SBR]
I don't think that would work. The bullet heats up so much, it would burn the poison off the bullet before it got to the intended target.

The bullet itself is poison. Lead it's good in your body.

______________________________



Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:04:13 PM EDT
JAWS was shot with bullets that had cyanide in them!
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:08:56 PM EDT
Yea, posions derived from organic means would probably be denatured by the heat.

Cyanide binds to the thrid electron pump in the electron transport chain I think. It blocks the pump from effectivly setting up a concentration gradient on the outside of the mitochondrias membrain in eukaryotes and in the end seriously destroys a cells ability to produce 34 ATP from the ETC chain.

I think.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:27:22 PM EDT
Some chech politician or something was killed with a poison BB gun pellet. I Dont remeber the full story
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:44:31 PM EDT
As I recall, assumeing it's the same story it was an umbrella with a hollow spike tip, the BB was placed in the tip, and the assassin "bumped into" the target sticking him eith the umbrella, and leaving the poison BB behind, the BB it'self had tiny holes drilled in it, and the holes were filled with Ricin, it was desighned to make the assassination look like a simple accident, two people bumping into eachother on the street noone would think anything of it....
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:29:40 PM EDT
G. Gordon Liddy thought it was a good idea.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 9:07:35 PM EDT
Did they ever catch the guy who did it?
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:16:57 PM EDT
The 5.45X39 is my poison bullet.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:58:05 AM EDT
Maybe you've just been watching too much TV tonight, and should go to bed....


like your mom asked you to....
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:19:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 1:21:02 AM EDT by manowar669]
Poison bullets do work. Of course bullets trump poison in any cardgame. Heat isnt' really any issue. Many people think bullets are super heated coming out of a gun barrel, but they're not really. A piece of paper placed on the back of an unseated bullet before loading isn't even scorched when recovered. And look at paper-patched rounds, and the patch from a muzzle-loader. They're not even burned. It's more of an explosion pushing the bullet, not a fire.
I read of a case in Miami where a medium level drug dealer had .25 ACP Fmj bullets hollowed out from the base and filled with a toxin (don't remember which), since a lot of .25ACP shootings don't exit the body. A victim died of mysterious symtoms when recovering from being shot with one of these, further investigation revealed the poison bullets.

Put them where they count, and you don't need poison.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:37:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By manowar669:
Poison bullets do work. Of course bullets trump poison in any cardgame. Heat isnt' really any issue. Many people think bullets are super heated coming out of a gun barrel, but they're not really. A piece of paper placed on the back of an unseated bullet before loading isn't even scorched when recovered. And look at paper-patched rounds, and the patch from a muzzle-loader. They're not even burned. It's more of an explosion pushing the bullet, not a fire.
I read of a case in Miami where a medium level drug dealer had .25 ACP Fmj bullets hollowed out from the base and filled with a toxin (don't remember which), since a lot of .25ACP shootings don't exit the body. A victim died of mysterious symtoms when recovering from being shot with one of these, further investigation revealed the poison bullets.

Put them where they count, and you don't need poison.



?

Well where to start.

First of all bullets get really hot, fire one into some sand or something and then dig it out quick. Even if the bullet was being pushed out by cold air, it would still be being deformed and slid through a tube at a high rate of speed. Which = heat from friction.

Second - it IS a fire, and NOT an explosion, pushing the bullet out of the barrel. The powder is burning at a high rate of speed, but explosions are something to be avoided in anything you are holding.



Now if you were talking about sprinkling a thermonuclear warhead with bad karma so that it would be more deadly that would be something else.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:57:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rickyj:
Now if you were talking about sprinkling a thermonuclear warhead with bad karma so that it would be more deadly that would be something else.



Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:15:10 PM EDT
has any one ever seen "the jackal" the original version made way back when. The bullets the "jackal" used were filled with mercury or something along those lines. Except these rounds were explosive not poisonus (i imagine mercury in your system aint too good). Any one know if encapsulating some liquid in a bullet actually makes it "explosive".


Thanks
PJ
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:20:00 PM EDT
Screw poison, diamond bullets!

Shit, that was intended to be a joke but now I'm curious. Anyone want to try it?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:27:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PhatForrest:
The 5.45X39 is my poison bullet.



That is exactly what the Afghan freedom fighters called the Russian's
5.45x39 rounds during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan.

Those same nice ROP freedom fighters that produced Osama Bin Laden.
May he rot in hell.



Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:34:24 PM EDT
"The bullet itself is poison."

Metallic lead in pieces as large as a bullet is not dangerous.
It is not dissolved in the body fluids enough to present a hazard.
Bullets are not removed from shooting victims unless they are easily located during surgery, and many are just left if they are not near anything important. The risk of trying to retrieve them is too high.

Adding mercury does not work very well either. The mercury dissolves into the lead and the resulting compound is very stable. The amalgam fillings in your teeth are a combination of mercury and silver.

I really doubt a bullet gets hot enough from friction given its mass to damage many simple chemical poisons. Protein poisons (ricin) might be denatured somewhat, but it depends on the exact temperature reached.

When a bullet is stopped all of the kinetic energy is converted to heat. This will raise the temperature of the bullet. The flame contact tie is not long enough to cause much heating.
Barrel friction is a very tough number to nail down. Static or low speed measurements of the friction force are not accurate since the lead is at least somewhat plastic under the forces present. Simply measuring the force to push he bullet through the barrel is likely to have significant error.
Curare is far from instant. It works by arresting breathing. It is often used in surgery for the muscle relaxing properties (very common on orthopedic surgery). A ventilator is used in many of these cases to support respiration.
Cyanide is very quick acting. It shuts down the mitochondria very quickly and the body is very sensitive to it. Most cyanide compounds are pretty stable though, and need a chemical reaction to release the cyanide. Sodium Cyanide is easily broken down by weak acids, and the body may cause some release.
A number of nerve agents would probably work, but most of there speed depends on inhalation to quickly distribute the dose to the nervous system.
The problem with almost any poison is they take time to work. The BG may have time to do a lot of damage.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:36:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:

Originally Posted By PhatForrest:
The 5.45X39 is my poison bullet.



That is exactly what the Afghan freedom fighters called the Russian's
5.45x39 rounds during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan.

Those same nice ROP freedom fighters that produced Osama Bin Laden.
May he rot in hell.






The resistance was multi-faceted in nature.
You had secular Afghanis, religious Muslims from around the world, and nutball religious Muslims from around the world.
Surely, you would not put the Taliban and the United Front on the same level, would you?

And yes, poison bullets are a stupid idea.
If you have a bullet, why would it be poisonous?
Bullets work quicker than poision.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:09:20 PM EDT
Ive always thoughts of a bullet like a hollow point that shatters in the body. Inside the bullet would be poison. Maybe in a somewhat heat insulated cavity to prevent any denaturing from heat. I can see it now. 9mm poision- $5 per cartridge
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:13:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 9:13:36 PM EDT by coltshorty14]
Learn to me a better shot, and you won't need no fuckin poison..
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:34:06 PM EDT
So, if projectiles get so hot....and poisons are degraded via this heat....how can nerve gas rounds be fired from a howitzer?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:24:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
So, if projectiles get so hot....and poisons are degraded via this heat....how can nerve gas rounds be fired from a howitzer?



Don't spoil their little ideas
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:03:53 PM EDT
I read a book by a Vietnam vet (I think it was Tim O'Brien's "If I Die in a Combat Zone") who said he got hit by a poisined bullet. IIRC, he got an infection from the bullet wound that was caused by (I think) fecal matter having been applied to the rounds, and he almost died from the infection instead of the hole itself. He was in the hospital for months before he recovered.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:11:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OBird:
I read a book by a Vietnam vet (I think it was Tim O'Brien's "If I Die in a Combat Zone") who said he got hit by a poisined bullet. IIRC, he got an infection from the bullet wound that was caused by (I think) fecal matter having been applied to the rounds, and he almost died from the infection instead of the hole itself. He was in the hospital for months before he recovered.



The VC did that with punji stakes.
I would not be suprised to learn that they did it with rifle rounds as well.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:31:21 PM EDT
Poison bullets? Bleh. Depleteled Uranium Bullets!

Poison is much to slow. Just shoot them again.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:43:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 9245:
I've thought about this before, and what the practicality would be, so just for giggles I thought I'd post it has anyone ever thought of, or heard of bullets coated in some form of poison like Curari (Curari is the poison used to coat poison arrows, and darts in certain areas of the world, I think it's effects are only temporary, but the effect is near instantaneous....) for example, or maybe capsules of something in a hollow point?.... Maybe I've just been watching to much TV tonight, and should go to bed....



Any coating would burn up going down the pipe....

Might work for birdshot... But unlikely...
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:44:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stlkid:
Some chech politician or something was killed with a poison BB gun pellet. I Dont remeber the full story



A poison UMBRELLA TIP, left a pellet of ricin, IIRC, in him courtesy of the KGB...
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:45:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stlkid:
Did they ever catch the guy who did it?



Yeah... KGB agent... Whole thing happened in London during the Cold War...

Victim was a defector....
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:49:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jmarkma:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
So, if projectiles get so hot....and poisons are degraded via this heat....how can nerve gas rounds be fired from a howitzer?



Don't spoil their little ideas



There is a difference between an arty round the size of your leg (or larger) filled with liquid agent (or 2 agents, in the case of a binary device), and a small coating of poison on the surface of a small arms round...

Consider the heat & friction not just of traveling, but of moving thru the air at supersonic speeds...

If you need poison delivery, stick to arrows or tranquilizer-gun darts...
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:17:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rickyj:

Originally Posted By manowar669:
Poison bullets do work. Of course bullets trump poison in any cardgame. Heat isnt' really any issue. Many people think bullets are super heated coming out of a gun barrel, but they're not really. A piece of paper placed on the back of an unseated bullet before loading isn't even scorched when recovered. And look at paper-patched rounds, and the patch from a muzzle-loader. They're not even burned. It's more of an explosion pushing the bullet, not a fire.
I read of a case in Miami where a medium level drug dealer had .25 ACP Fmj bullets hollowed out from the base and filled with a toxin (don't remember which), since a lot of .25ACP shootings don't exit the body. A victim died of mysterious symtoms when recovering from being shot with one of these, further investigation revealed the poison bullets.

Put them where they count, and you don't need poison.



?

Well where to start.

First of all bullets get really hot, fire one into some sand or something and then dig it out quick. Even if the bullet was being pushed out by cold air, it would still be being deformed and slid through a tube at a high rate of speed. Which = heat from friction.

Second - it IS a fire, and NOT an explosion, pushing the bullet out of the barrel. The powder is burning at a high rate of speed, but explosions are something to be avoided in anything you are holding.



Now if you were talking about sprinkling a thermonuclear warhead with bad karma so that it would be more deadly that would be something else.



Bullets are hot, but not THAT hot. The old oil-filled Glaser bullets didn't boil the oil out of them. Other liquid core bullets don't burn off. The wax sizing lube used in lead bullets is still there after firing them into sand (it didn't melt off). Aqueous poisons might vaporize if they have a low boiling point. Organic protein-based poisons might denature. But dry compounds definitely survive intact until impact.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:04:35 AM EDT
put the bullet in the right spot and you will not need to use poison
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