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Posted: 1/14/2006 7:13:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 7:17:05 PM EDT by usma89]
My friend is going on a hunt this October. He is leaning to a 375 H+H, I say a 458Win. What say you? Please post any experience.

He wants a balance between knock down power and recoil.

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:14:47 PM EDT
17 Mach 2 maybe 17 HMR
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:16:31 PM EDT
Experience: None

Round: 50bmg

Rifle: Armalite AR50

Reason: Manageable recoil, and by the end of the hunt you will have one very dead Cape and very tone arms.

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:09:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 8:10:48 PM EDT by muddydog]
i've never been to africa..
but i have a helluva library about hunters who have BTDT..

the word on the street is that a .375 will outpenetrate most others.

a buff is a pretty thick beast..

lots of power and penetration with less recoil...and a faster followup. most outfitters will fill far more comfortable with a client who shoots the shit out of a .375..than one who is afraid of a .458.

my take..
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:17:09 PM EDT
in some african countries the .375 is the minimum allowed for buf
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:43:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 8:44:00 PM EDT by gks452]
I've never been to Africa but have read a few books.

I think your friend is correct about the 375 being enough gun without having too much recoil. The 416 Rem and 458 Lott would be more effective but will be harder to shoot well due to recoil. The 375 H&H is powerful enough and should be easier to master.

Of the rounds you listed only the 458 Win has a bad reputation. From what I've read the key to penetration is to use a round nose bullet with at least a certain sectional density at about 2100-2200 fps. The 458 Win's case is too small to do that without the potential for pressure problems.

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:01:20 PM EDT
45-70? I'm no hunter on this level but I have heard the 45-70 will bring down anything on Earth. Heard that on OLN!
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:02:26 PM EDT
While I have not been to Africa, I do have a .375 H&H in a Winchester Classic Safari Express. It is an outstanding rifle. Recoil is mild and it has very similar trajectory to 30-06 with some loads. It works well for not just buffalo but smaller game and farther shots as well. You can get factory loaded ammo from Federal with all sorts of bullets and with +P power in some.

Two of the club locals have both hunted Africa and have a selection of rifles. They both prefered .375H&H for almost everything they shot, but had choices. Consult your PH and see what they recommend. Having a gun you can shoot well, are not afraid of and have spent some time shooting from various positions, not just off sand bags at the range, will make all the difference in the world.

Post pics when he gets back.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:03:21 PM EDT
stick and rock
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:19:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
stick and rock



only if your profeshunal enuff
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 4:02:02 AM EDT
.458 Lott, 450 grain Barnes Solid, 2400 fps. Dropped with 1 shot, put in another for good measure.

Recoil is heavy but that's the price of admission.

My $.02.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 4:04:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 4:11:26 AM EDT
Three safaris, no buf, but a lot of other critters, including an elephant.

Your friend should use the biggest thing he can shoot well. And tell him to do his homework. The vital area on a buf is a lot lower than you'd think, for example.

More importantly, tell him to check his shoes before he puts them on in the morning, and to watch where he steps
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 6:27:34 AM EDT
The 45-70 WILL out penetrate most of those. It just doesn't have the knockdown of a .470.

I say 45-70 because I can afford one, or rent the biggest one you can carry!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:27:08 AM EDT
Are we talking about "normal" Buff or Zombie Buff?

It makes a difference you know.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:16:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Beerswimmer:
The 45-70 WILL out penetrate most of those. It just doesn't have the knockdown of a .470.

I say 45-70 because I can afford one, or rent the biggest one you can carry!



Im curious, how does the 45-70 out penetrate the .458 Lott? Same diameter .458 bullet, but with more juice behind it
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:23:13 PM EDT
.50 BMG, it's the only way to be sure
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:30:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 10:08:56 PM EDT by THellURider]
Where's the typical ARFCOMMER reply ".223 will do it, you just have to place it correctly!" ?

I've never hunted Cape Buffs, or been to Africa, but I'm well read and an experienced hunter so YMMV.

I say go as big as you feel comfortable going. .375 H&H is minimum in my book for Cape Buff. It'll certainly work though.

Is he taking a double rifle or a bolt gun? That would affect my choice. I'd be more comfortable with the .375 H&H in a double than I would in a bolt gun.

I'm going to SA in August but will be doing plains game only this time around.

Tell him to have fun, and if he can, get ahold of "Boddington on Buffalo" on DVD. (I think thats the correct title.) It's a great DVD by one of this generation's hunting greats.

Is this his first trip to the dark continent?

ETA: .45-70? You've got to be kidding me! I love the round but damn....
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:44:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 9:47:12 PM EDT by bubba99]
I have 4 buffs.

Any will kill a buff, the 458 Lott will do it a little faster.

The 458 win would certainly be my last choice. It was a compromise from its conception, sorta like a .40 S&W.

The cartridge does not matter near as much as a well placed shot. Use premium ammo and practice alot. If he is not used to Big bore rifles I think any thing larger than th 416's are gonna seem brutal.

"Buff + Lousy Shot= Funeral" as quoted by Peter Capstick.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:48:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
Three safaris, no buf, but a lot of other critters, including an elephant.

Your friend should use the biggest thing he can shoot well. And tell him to do his homework. The vital area on a buf is a lot lower than you'd think, for example.

More importantly, tell him to check his shoes before he puts them on in the morning, and to watch where he steps



Well spoken, chap. You can tell who has done the shoe shake before...
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:37:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Beerswimmer:
The 45-70 WILL out penetrate most of those. It just doesn't have the knockdown of a .470.

I say 45-70 because I can afford one, or rent the biggest one you can carry!








Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:40:52 AM EDT
I'd personally want an M61A1 with 20mm DU
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:33:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:42:50 AM EDT by shootsenmeister]
.460 Weatherby Mag. If I were hunting in Africa that would be my 1st choice. I would be less concerned with the recoil and focus more on a round that will do the job. As long as you can hit what you are shooting at the .460 wby is insurance that you live to tell about your hunting adventure. I would worry less about recoil and focus on surviving. Cape Buffalo do not drop immediately after being shot and it has been documented that they sometimes charge the shooter and can run far even after being fatally hit.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:36:53 AM EDT

.460 Weatherby Mag. If I were hunting in Africa that would be my 1st choice.


There's nothing a .460 Weatherby can do that a .458 Lott can't, except cost twice as much to shoot, kick 25% harder, and hold 3 rounds less in the magazine.



Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:45:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:52:26 AM EDT by RobarSR60]
I would go with a .416 Rigby, with a 400gr Barnes XFB boolit, is the way to go. .375 H & H is second, but IMO a little light. Mauser, Winchester, CZ or Ruger actions only. For fast, positive follow-up shots, a controlled round feed action is the ONLY way to go. The .416 Rigby delivers 5000 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle. It's been a celebrated dangerous game cartridge since it was introduced in 1912. And tell you friend, he needs to practice with this rifle. Being ill prepared for killing Cape Buffalo is not an option. People die that way.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 1:49:54 PM EDT
0 experience.

The 50 Patriot on the SSK web page looks impressive. 80+% of a 50 BMG and fits into a regular size rifle (almost). I think bigger would be better.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:48:32 PM EDT
375 h&h
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:09:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 5:13:55 PM EDT by DaveS]
.458 SOCOM w/PRI 6.8mm SPC 25rd mags... gives you 1 in the pipe and 11 oohmygoditsstillcomingatme rounds. MGI rate reducing buffer w/David Tubbs CS flat buffer spring.
300gr Barnes X @ 2000fps ought to do the trick.

Dave S

And a Pro w/.458 Lott.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:04:07 AM EDT
Does the 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo actually out-penetrate the 458 Winchester Magnum and 500 Nitro Express when using solids? Yes, as was demonstrated for all to see at a recent John Linebaugh seminar. The penetration results, which parallel ours, demonstrated that the 458 Winchester Magnum produces 47-inches of penetration in wet newspaper with 500-grain roundnose solids and that the 500 Nitro Express produces 48-inches of penetration in wet newspaper with 570-grain roundnose solids. By comparison, our 540-grainer with its super blunt front end produces an impressive 55-inches of penetration in the same material. Nearly 20% deeper penetration than the 458 or 500 Nitro Express with roundnose solids!


From the Garrett web site. No .458 Lott comaprisons, but those slow moving heavy bullets just don't stop.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 9:52:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 10:00:51 AM EDT by guns762]
My dad had very good luck with his .416 Rem mag.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:19:13 AM EDT
I have never shot a buffalo, but I have a 375H&H and the recoil is not too bad. I would not be afraid to get one of the bigger guns.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:43:05 AM EDT
Phased plasma rifle with 40 watt range maybe?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:55:37 PM EDT
I would choose the Lott.
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