Quoted: Academy Sports usually has Cannon Safes for a decent price.

Yep  I picked up a Cannon safe "for less money" thats bigger than and the same quality as the 2 winchester safes I bought at sams.

Quoted: This might seem like an inane question--but how do you get a 350-400lb smooth-walled safe into your house?

Think 400 lbs is bad try 1800 or so lbs for one, that sucked.

I just got $3200 worth of guns stolen, no safe. I promised myself before I bought another gun related item I'd have a place to store my weapons. A Stack-On security cabinet would've keep what I had safe & it was really what I was looking for but didn't know of anywhere in Oklahoma City to get the size I wanted. I even emailed Stack-On to find a dealer & never got a response. I heard Academy Sports had them but when I went there I found that all they carried was the small ones. They did however have real safes. All big & all heavy. The more I looked at them the better they looked but I had that same old question. How do I get the damn thing in my house? I found Academy had a guy who would deliver & bolt the thing down for $90.00, I told them to write it up. I bought this thing with no research at all. It's an American Eagle by Cannon, model AE31, 60" high 36" wide & 24" deep. When I came home I went to their website http://www.cannonsafe.com/ & read up on my new purchase. I was really impressed by the warrenty & I believe I got my moneys worth, for once. Will it keep out a Pro? Probably not but I'm not too worried about a Pro going after my stuff, mostly "Cranksters" Looking to get something to trade for their next high. Now I just have to work on filling it up. Do some research & by the best you can afford. Believe me it's sickening to come home & find your weapons have been stolen & you never realize how much you needed one until you have you weapons stolen.

Guys, check out the Cannon line.  Model AE22 is 30 X 60 X 24, weighs 525 lbs empty, has firelined at 1200 degrees for 30 minutes, holds up to 28 long guns with a flex interior and best of all has the best 100% no money out of your pocket lifetime warrenty.  We sell this model for 699 and worth every penny of it.  Check it out
http://www.cannonsafe.com/safesamericaneagle/#ae
 Oh, also has a programable digital lock be LaGar, best thing since sliced bread.  Only problem is in the event of an EMP, it will screw up the lock.  That's why you always keep another gun accessable.

Quoted: Guys, check out the Cannon line.  Model AE22 is 30 X 60 X 24, weighs 525 lbs empty, has firelined at 1200 degrees for 30 minutes, holds up to 28 long guns with a flex interior and best of all has the best 100% no money out of your pocket lifetime warrenty.  We sell this model for 699 and worth every penny of it.  Check it out http://www.cannonsafe.com/safesamericaneagle/#ae  Oh, also has a programable digital lock be LaGar, best thing since sliced bread.  Only problem is in the event of an EMP, it will screw up the lock.  That's why you always keep another gun accessable.

I see you in NC, where?  And how is this delivered or can I get it?  Cost of shipping?  I like the sound of this!

Quoted: Quoted: Guys, check out the Cannon line.  Model AE22 is 30 X 60 X 24, weighs 525 lbs empty, has firelined at 1200 degrees for 30 minutes, holds up to 28 long guns with a flex interior and best of all has the best 100% no money out of your pocket lifetime warrenty.  We sell this model for 699 and worth every penny of it.  Check it out http://www.cannonsafe.com/safesamericaneagle/#ae  Oh, also has a programable digital lock be LaGar, best thing since sliced bread.  Only problem is in the event of an EMP, it will screw up the lock.  That's why you always keep another gun accessable. I see you in NC, where?  And how is this delivered or can I get it?  Cost of shipping?  I like the sound of this!

I'm just outside of Charlotte.  Check out my website  www.shootersexpress.com  and e-mail me if you need more info.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guys, check out the Cannon line.  Model AE22 is 30 X 60 X 24, weighs 525 lbs empty, has firelined at 1200 degrees for 30 minutes, holds up to 28 long guns with a flex interior and best of all has the best 100% no money out of your pocket lifetime warrenty.  We sell this model for 699 and worth every penny of it.  Check it out http://www.cannonsafe.com/safesamericaneagle/#ae  Oh, also has a programable digital lock be LaGar, best thing since sliced bread.  Only problem is in the event of an EMP, it will screw up the lock.  That's why you always keep another gun accessable. I see you in NC, where?  And how is this delivered or can I get it?  Cost of shipping?  I like the sound of this! I'm just outside of Charlotte.  Check out my website  www.shootersexpress.com  and e-mail me if you need more info.

Thanks alot!

Go by Liberty Safes  in Hillsboro. They have good prices, + layaway
http://libertysafesportland.com/

Quoted: Go by Liberty Safes  in Hillsboro. They have good prices, + layaway http://libertysafesportland.com/

Be sure to check Libertys warrenty, anything happens, they will repair after you ship it back to them,  $$$$$$$$

Quoted: I bought this one a year or so ago and am happy w/ it. Link image.basspro.com/images/images2/80500/80549.jpg SALE RedHead® Ranger 12/24 Fire Safe RedHead® Ranger 12/24 Fire Safe Regular price $899.99 - Save $100 This stylish safe secures and protects your firearms. Stores 12-24 long guns with a convertible interior. Fire rated at 1200° for up to 32 minutes. Includes a textured hunter green exterior finish and tan interior. Features:    * 1" diameter bolts    * 3-spoke brass handle    * UL listed Group II lock    * Interior relocker    * Concealed hinges    * 10-gauge steel body and door    * Spy-proof top-read dial    * Bolt-down holes from bottom of safe    * Heat-sensitive expandable door seal    * 60" x 30" x 22"    * 23 cu. ft.    * Weight: 410 lbs.    * Limited lifetime warranty    * Made in USA

$599 at BassPro this weekend.  Just saw it at the Orlando store and it is very nice.

Quoted: Quoted: Go by Liberty Safes  in Hillsboro. They have good prices, + layaway http://libertysafesportland.com/ Be sure to check Libertys warrenty, anything happens, they will repair after you ship it back to them,  $$$$$$$$

That is certainly nice of them.

Quoted: $599 at BassPro this weekend.  Just saw it at the Orlando store and it is very nice.

That's what I paid for mine. Bought it in the Bass Pro Shops store here, plus additional 10% off for being mil. and another 4% cash back for my Bass Pro Rewards points

Quoted: I am curently in the market for a nice gun safe myself.   I actually have been talking to "Lifesafe" who also sells "Liberty" gun safes.  The one that I am looking at right now, is 42" tall (with my shotgun being 40"), my AR of 36", and two Glock pistols.  These safes are supposed to be good fire/burglary ratings.  Price is around $700 - from $800 on a $100 price reduction atm (not counting the accessories- have to get a drawer shelf cause this not actually designed as a true "gun safe" and the goldenrod and a light).   Of course, now I am wondering if the Sam's safe is better (or just as good at $600).   The safe I am looking at is 12 cubic feet, 24"x42"x20" (WxHxD), weighs 350 lbs., digital lock and has three shelves that I will have to take out, to be able to put two long guns and two pistols in.  It is rated at 1200 degrees for 30 mins, 1-38th " thick, 12-guage, and 3/16th plate steel door.   Not much sure what to do at this time.  I dont want to spend an arm and a leg for a safe, but certainly do not want a cheap one.

I went through all of this a couple years ago. I have lots of guns, but didn't want to pony up the bucks for a good safe. I always wanted to buy another rifle for the money I could have spent on a safe. My wife demanded that i get a safe to secure all my firearms from the kids.(good idea). I was going to go the cheap route and buy a Stack-on or equivilent. I planned on trying to keep it under $500. The crazy thing is it was my wife who convinced me to shell out the money (which we didn't have) for a legitimate safe. Ended up dropping $1200 on a Liberty safe that can handle 39 guns. After stressing over the cost of the damn thing I realized it was the best investment I ever made on firearms purchases. You can never have "too much" safe.

Here's my thoughts on this subject.

I would not trust a digital lock. Electronics fail way to often for my tastes. Matter of fact, IMO, it's not a matter of "if" but "when". Mechanical systems can fail as well but not nearly as often. I would hate to have my firearms and other valuables in a safe that I could not open because the electronic keypad or motor failed.

As far as protection against professional thieves, let be realistic. There are very few professional thieves that can crack safes and those they can don't generally waste their time busting into average middle class homes. A pro safe cracker knows how to break into either type so what I'm saying is lock type isn't going to matter much in that regard.

If you do get a determined thieve he will more likely try to either remove the safe or try cut through it in place. That's why safes with thick steel are more desirable. Even on the more expensive models the steel is not usually as thick on the sides and backs as in the front\door assembly. That's why it's a good idea to bolt the safe down and try to place it someplace where the safe's side are not easily accessible.

As far as location, depending on your home the basement is a very good option because getting one of those heavy safes down the stairs is a lot easier then going up them. That's means if you put it into the basement it's going to be a lot easier for you and a lot harder for thieves. (the opposite would be true if you install it upstairs in a bedroom).

If you install it in the basement, try to install it in a corner. The reason being, in a really bad fire where the house crashes in, it will fall in mostly towards the center of the house and items close to the outside walls will fare better. I would also suggest the you place the safe on top of a raised base made of concrete filled cinder blocks, at least 1-2' high. That should give you some added protection against flooding. (less bending over for us taller guys too )

I would then also build a closet around it. The closet walls would be made from steel studs. The cavities would be filled with masonry brick and both sides would be covered with 5/8" drywall. They make fireproof doors doors designed for that kind of wall. This does a couple of things. A. Added fire protection. B. Makes the safe less obvious and C. would make it damn near impossible for a thieve to remove or cut open the safe.

Good luck

Quoted: Here's my thoughts on this subject. I would not trust a digital lock. Electronics fail way to often for my tastes. Matter of fact, IMO, it's not a matter of "if" but "when". Mechanical systems can fail as well but not nearly as often. I would hate to have my firearms and other valuables in a safe that I could not open because the electronic keypad or motor failed. As far as protection against professional thieves, let be realistic. There are very few professional thieves that can crack safes and those they can don't generally waste their time busting into average middle class homes. A pro safe cracker knows how to break into either type so what I'm saying is lock type isn't going to matter much in that regard. If you do get a determined thieve he will more likely try to either remove the safe or try cut through it in place. That's why safes with thick steel are more desirable. Even on the more expensive models the steel is not usually as thick on the sides and backs as in the front\door assembly. That's why it's a good idea to bolt the safe down and try to place it someplace where the safe's side are not easily accessible. As far as location, depending on your home the basement is a very good option because getting one of those heavy safes down the stairs is a lot easier then going up them. That's means if you put it into the basement it's going to be a lot easier for you and a lot harder for thieves. (the opposite would be true if you install it upstairs in a bedroom). If you install it in the basement, try to install it in a corner. The reason being, in a really bad fire where the house crashes in, it will fall in mostly towards the center of the house and items close to the outside walls will fare better. I would also suggest the you place the safe on top of a raised base made of concrete filled cinder blocks, at least 1-2' high. That should give you some added protection against flooding. (less bending over for us taller guys too ) I would then also build a closet around it. The closet walls would be made from steel studs. The cavities would be filled with masonry brick and both sides would be covered with 5/8" drywall. They make fireproof doors doors designed for that kind of wall. This does a couple of things. A. Added fire protection. B. Makes the safe less obvious and C. would make it damn near impossible for a thieve to remove or cut open the safe. Good luck

Very nice information!  Hey, can I borrow the $$$ to buy/build all those suggestions you made?

Quoted: Here's my thoughts on this subject. ... As far as location, depending on your home the basement is a very good option because getting one of those heavy safes down the stairs is a lot easier then going up them. That's means if you put it into the basement it's going to be a lot easier for you and a lot harder for thieves. (the opposite would be true if you install it upstairs in a bedroom). If you install it in the basement, try to install it in a corner. The reason being, in a really bad fire where the house crashes in, it will fall in mostly towards the center of the house and items close to the outside walls will fare better. I would also suggest the you place the safe on top of a raised base made of concrete filled cinder blocks, at least 1-2' high. That should give you some added protection against flooding. (less bending over for us taller guys too hen Good luck

Wow! hock.gif
That would be nice. hat

No matter what safe you get be sure you spend an extra $30-$40 for a GoldenRod Dehumidifier
GoldenRod Dehumidifier 18" with Detachable Plug 110 Volt Gold
You can also get Silica or Desiccant as well to help with rust.
Rust Inhibitor Products

I needed a 22 Gun safe but I think I am going with a 44 Gun Safe.

This makes an interesting read.

max

Quoted: if you loose power when you really need your gun it would suck to have an electronic locking system that depends on power.

Battery...(jeez)

Keep in mind that a 14 gun safe doesn't really hold 14 long arms unless none of them have pistol grips, scopes or protruding op rods etc.

IF you are going to keep it in the garage you will definately need a goldenrod and silica crystals, unless you have a climate controlled garage that you never park a wet car in.

Bolt it down and camoflage it or at least keep the windows covered.

I got the keypad type lock after ensuring that they are at least as reliable as a dial combo.  I can change the combos myself and can get into it much more quickly than a dial type, which also helps ensure that i keep everything locked up.

i just purchased cannon safe this week end from theissens  60" high 30"wide 22" deep
normal price$ 649 on sale for 549. with electronic keypad.

cannon safes are guaranteed for life including pickup and delivery to your curb for fire damage, flood, break in or attempted  break in.

now i just need to fill it up with more stuff.

If you're on a budget, you can check local safe companies for any trade-ins or used safes. One dealer locally was damn near giving away some fire-rated data safes. They wern't designed as gun safes but with a couple rifle barrel brackets they would work out great. the price was also right at $500 for a double door monster. Delivery was about $200 but well worth it for other guys to do the grunt work.

Does anyone know of any online stores that sell Sentry, Stack-On, or other brands of safes that offer FREE shipping?  I am having an impossible time finding a local store that sells any safes at all, none of the big sporting good stores or Walmart's, etc. have anything in stock and I just can't justify spending $200+ for shipping online.

I tried to do so as well but no luck.  I finally broke down and bought one locally.  

Max

Anyone have any experiences with the Zanotti Armor modular gun safes?

Where are you guys finding homeowner's insurance that covers loss of your firearms?  I have State Farm and it only covers a small fraction.  Riders for more coverage are very expensive and involve giving them a complete inventory and serial numbers.  The NRA offers additional coverage, but it's not exactly cheap.  If you think your homeowner's will cover your collection, better check.

My homeowners covers $1000.00 on theft of firearms. Spoke to my agent and also looked at the policy and am covered fully in case of a loss due to fire.  I bought a Browning Gold (54) gun  safe from a good friend, who recently built a vault room in his basement

Quoted: Where are you guys finding homeowner's insurance that covers loss of your firearms?  I have State Farm and it only covers a small fraction.  Riders for more coverage are very expensive and involve giving them a complete inventory and serial numbers.  The NRA offers additional coverage, but it's not exactly cheap.  If you think your homeowner's will cover your collection, better check.

State Farm, and most others will cover loss of firearms just like all other personal property.  They only thing you need extra coverage for is theft of firearms.  Personally, I elect not to insure against theft.

Quoted: This might seem like an inane question--but how do you get a 350-400lb smooth-walled safe into your house?

A regular dolly will do it, 400 isn't that much.  A piano dolly can do it too.  I moved my brother's 900lb safe with a standard dolly a few months ago.  Two people can do it, but three makes it much safer.  

A pallet jack (sometimes a narrow one is needed) works wonders for moving a heavy safe, as in 2000lbs+.

Check your want ads in the paper and surrounding city papers for used safes.  

I was thinking about getting just a 10-gun Sentry safe from walmart, but cant really justify it when my 4 firearms are worth like $1600 total.  Heck, my insurance pretty much covers that.  If I had children in the house it'd be a different story, but none yet.

Ahhhhh.  Thanks.  I'm a new homeowner so am not wise to all this.

Quoted: Academy Sports usually has Cannon Safes for a decent price.

AMEN

Just as a followup to the insurance issue:

I stopped by my State Farm office today and the base coverage on firearms coverage, including fire, etc. is only $5,000 total.  Any more coverage would be $1.95/100 insured and require serial numbers and a separate rider.

Just wanted to share my experience and thoughts:

Several years ago I  had a break-in occur and while my family lost  jewelry and and electronics my guns where still there.  The reason was my Browning safe.  It was too heavy for the punk ass burglars to get up the stairs although they did manage to move it enough to knock it over.  
Since then I have another and feel their worth the money.  For a lot of years I had the same
mentality-why but a safe when  I can buy another gun.  Sure glad I bit the bullet to get that
first safe.

I don't think the majority of thiefs will have the ability to break in the safe and if it is heavy enough
(or even lightweight but solidly achored to wall/floor) I think you're ok. Why have one?  Well even if you have insurance protection I have accumulated all my guns over the last 38 years and it
would be a massive undertaking to replace them. Even those with smaller collections realize
there are guns they treasure because they shoot so well, they have modified them to their
tastes or they have great sentimental value. It would be a major loose to come home and find
your guns gone.  

One last thought:  My first safe didn't have fire protection. When I got my second safe I
researched the fire protection and found it would be inadequate for most any fire scenarios.
A little bit of checking with your local fire depts about the damage inflicted in whole house
burns will convince you that most so called fire safes is just marketing hype. Just buy as heavy
a safe as you can afford and still be able to move when you relocate.

Real nice post brandyspaw!

Thanks for the feedback!

eta mispelled name

Here's my new safe in gloss black: http://www.remington.com/products/licensed_products/safes/630_series.asp

Picking it up tomorrow

Quoted: I have concluded that when I get the money, I am just going to probably buy a Sentry, bolt 'er down big time, and call it a day.  I am not going to freak out about fires and such (which I know can happen) but moreso burglary (which would seem to be more frequent)...   Still not sure about whether to get the combo lock or digital lock...  Your guys opinions?

As the owner of a combo lock and a digital:   Get the digital!!!

The combo takes several tries some times.  It would be difficult/impossible to open quickly under stress.

I saw the "Winchester" digital safe at Walmart for about $600      Best value IMHO

Hope I'm not too late.  

Quoted:  Only problem is in the event of an EMP, it will screw up the lock.  hr

forgive me, but my electronics warfare knowledge is pretty limited.

doesn't the only way to generate a strong enough EMP to damage electronics involve a spectacular overhead light show?



we don't have to worry about some geek with an engineering degree frying our electronic locks with a homemade EMP generator, do we?

Quoted: Just as a followup to the insurance issue: I stopped by my State Farm office today and the base coverage on firearms coverage, including fire, etc. is only $5,000 total.  Any more coverage would be $1.95/100 insured and require serial numbers and a separate rider.

Are you sure about that...?  My State Farm policy only puts a caps on firearm theft.  All other losses are covered as any other property.  Is that what they told you, or have you read your policy?

Quoted: Here's my new safe in gloss black: http://www.remington.com/products/licensed_products/safes/630_series.asp Picking it up tomorrow

Nice... How much?

Quoted: Quoted: Just as a followup to the insurance issue: I stopped by my State Farm office today and the base coverage on firearms coverage, including fire, etc. is only $5,000 total.  Any more coverage would be $1.95/100 insured and require serial numbers and a separate rider. Are you sure about that...?  My State Farm policy only puts a caps on firearm theft.  All other losses are covered as any other property.  Is that what they told you, or have you read your policy?

Yeah, my agent and I read through it in his office the other day.  Maybe policies have changed.  My policy was started 4 or 5 months ago.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just as a followup to the insurance issue: I stopped by my State Farm office today and the base coverage on firearms coverage, including fire, etc. is only $5,000 total.  Any more coverage would be $1.95/100 insured and require serial numbers and a separate rider. Are you sure about that...?  My State Farm policy only puts a caps on firearm theft.  All other losses are covered as any other property.  Is that what they told you, or have you read your policy? Yeah, my agent and I read through it in his office the other day.  Maybe policies have changed.  My policy was started 4 or 5 months ago.

Wierd.  I've had my renter's insurance 2 years, and under "Option FA", it says:

2. our limit for loss by any Coverage B peril except theft is the limit shown in the Declarations for Coverage B, plus the aggregate limit; 3. our limits for loss by theft are those shown in the Declarations for this option.  These limits apply in lieu of the Coverage B theft limit; and

While shopping for safes at the local lock smith I was told the electronic keypads have a high failure rate.  They primarily carried Liberty safes or safes made by Liberty.

No experience of my own, only passing along what I heard.

Quoted: While shopping for safes at the local lock smith I was told the electronic keypads have a high failure rate.  They primarily carried Liberty safes or safes made by Liberty. No experience of my own, only passing along what I heard.

Thanks for the information Dreem... I looked into those Liberty safes tho, they are just too expensive for my blood...

Yep thats what is sitting under/beside the xmas tree for me.

You can't beat it for the $$$$


FREE

Quoted: At the upper end of your spending limit is the Winchester safe at Sam's Club.  It will hold up to 24 rifles and has room for other storage.  Check it out on their website...don't worry about the prices being high.  The web has shipping included in the price (they say it is free), but the same $888 safe is $590 at the store.

Keypad versus Dial...

I have a friend who has been a locksmith for many-o-years now...  He has been called in on three different occasions to a home that had been burged in which the thief thought that beating on the keypad was going to open the safe. Stupid, yes, but most thieves are stupid. He has never come across this happening to a dial. Sure, they didn’t get in the box, but the locksmith had to come out and replace it...big bummer... As far as getting into your safe fast in a crisis situation, if you have your main home defense gun locked up in your safe, you have already lost due to poor decision making skills. Furthermore... an EMP is not something that you should DEPEND on never occurring.

Quoted: Yep thats what is sitting under/beside the xmas tree for me. You can't beat it for the $$$$ FREE Quoted: At the upper end of your spending limit is the Winchester safe at Sam's Club.  It will hold up to 24 rifles and has room for other storage.  Check it out on their website...don't worry about the prices being high.  The web has shipping included in the price (they say it is free), but the same $888 safe is $590 at the store.

We picked one up last night at Wally World for $597.  Hell of a deal.  

Quoted: Keypad versus Dial... I have a friend who has been a locksmith for many-o-years now...  He has been called in on three different occasions to a home that had been burged in which the thief thought that beating on the keypad was going to open the safe. Stupid, yes, but most thieves are stupid. He has never come across this happening to a dial. Sure, they didn’t get in the box, but the locksmith had to come out and replace it...big bummer... As far as getting into your safe fast in a crisis situation, if you have your main home defense gun locked up in your safe, you have already lost due to poor decision making skills. Furthermore... an EMP is not something that you should DEPEND on never occurring.

Dammit!  Now I am thinking of looking at the dial, instead of the number pad.  I understand what you saying, I was just planning to keep all my guns (well, my rifle, shotgun, and two pistols) in there.  Oh well, will keep reading up...

Quoted: Keypad versus Dial... I have a friend who has been a locksmith for many-o-years now...  He has been called in on three different occasions to a home that had been burged in which the thief thought that beating on the keypad was going to open the safe. Stupid, yes, but most thieves are stupid. He has never come across this happening to a dial. Sure, they didn’t get in the box, but the locksmith had to come out and replace it...big bummer... As far as getting into your safe fast in a crisis situation, if you have your main home defense gun locked up in your safe, you have already lost due to poor decision making skills. Furthermore... an EMP is not something that you should DEPEND on never occurring.

In those "many years" your locksmith buddy has come across 3 cases where someone screwed up somebody's lock?  Sounds like good odds to me.

So it's poor decision making skills to secure your weapons from theft and children?  Or should we be walking around our house with a rifle slung?  And EMP!  For christsake!  You could just wrap your tinfoil hat around the lock!  I depend on EMP not occuring everytime i get on the road or an airplane or even just walk outside..but there go those poor decision making skills of mine.

Comments withdrawn, thanks for the personal attack Curt.

Quoted: I'm buying a 25 gun safe tomorrow (probably an AmSec or Liberty but we will see) and it will be with a mechanical dial lock, not the electronic keypad.   Think about it, a decent safe can last you 40 years or more assuming you don't outgrow it or get too old to play with guns any more.   How many pieces of electronic gear do you own right now that are over 20 years old?   10 years old?    I'm an electrical engineer by training and I guarantee  you that electronic locks are more likely develop problems over the decades.   All it takes is for one key pad, electrical contact, solenoid, or integrated circuit to glitch and you are screwed.   Mechanical dials aren't perfect but sometimes old school is better.

AS a fellow EE i'm rather surprised to hear you say that.  Most failures of electronics componenets such as an IC are in the infant mortality stage, assuming good design in the first place and a solenoid is as simple of an electrical device you can get!  Whereas mechanical devices will wear over time and malfunction later in life.  I have a marantz receiver that is ~30 years old and still works just fine except for the mechanical tuning dial.  I have a cheap calculator that is 20 years old and still functions perfectly.  Of course your question was biased from the beginning since your assuming that the only reason someone would get rid of a 20 year old piece of electronics gear would be because it crapped out and not because they wanted something with updated functionality or more performance.

Maybe your training did not include Failure Modes and Analysis?