"They do not line up with anything I have heard from any LEO that has shared his experiences with the weapon, nor any foreign SF member I have heard share about the weapon, nor a Secret Service agent I have talked with on this board, nor the article I gave you from Houston PD. "

My point exactly...

Their information isn't any less useful to me than yours. You're both claiming to be something and claiming to have used something. It is no different. And yet, the Houston article is more credible than either your internet claims or theirs. Want me to link the article by Sandy Wall again?


-DmL

True, but that gives YOU zero credibility to argue either way!

Not at all. You made claims about the weapon, I pointed you to the article by Sandy Wall claiming otherwise. From there on, it all boils down to whether or not your opinion or Sandy Wall's and/or any of my other sources is more credible. And your "unbiased list of cons" is hard to take as credible. Like I said, in my opinion the only valid concern of yours (and the only one that matches up with my other sources) was the ammo cost, and even that will change with Fiocchi producing the 5.7x28. My credibility doesn't come into the discussion so you are misunderstanding when you say I have zero credibility.


-DmL

Quoted: I offered a review of the pros and cons of the weapon, plain and simple.  I'm sorry it did not fair better. But you "offered" it over and over in every single P90 thread that has come up since you started.

Exactly. We've all seen these same opinions enough to know what you will say. The sad thing is, every P90 thread ends up with the same outcome as you repeatedly post your negative opinions, when they are not asked for.

Quoted: all that crap started here in the U.S in the LE community with HK training div teaching SAS dynamic entry with MP5A3 with the stock collapsed held out in front of the center of your chest tensioned against the HK tac sling....gosh golly I did go to HK tactical school in the late 1980's As well as MP5 Instructors school, and Explosive entry school. That was when Phil Singelton (ex SAS,PARA) was the chief instructor. So it is something I very much knew about...so get off your dang hi horse...I also know that technique dont work with every f'in firearm on the planet. The P90 was never ment to be used in that manner, nor were most any other bullpup....and in doing so you get less than perfect results. Shamus You dont have one stinking Idea what I do or dont Know. And I stand by my every word. This here is my deptment issue G36KE1.....notice that HK sling on there? I use it with the stock folded and tensioned on the sling punched out in front of me while doing building interiors.Does that sound Kinda like your talking about? lol img300.imageshack.us/img300/5791/f90584565yy.jpg

I see you have edited your original post so that it doesn't read at all how it read before.

Good work.

Now it doesn't look as silly as it did before.

I have only one question though. Why are you so emotionally charged over this issue? Enough so to call into question another LEO's crediblity on such a silly subject, and to edit and re-edit your posts to try and shape the things you have said into something else.

I don't get it.

Quoted: It's actually funny how easily worked up you are over such a trivial matter as to whether a paticular individual likes a gun or not. It has nothing to do with whether or not MP906 likes the gun. It's the way he's throwing around misinformation regarding a major state agency and forcing his nitpicks on other people. With the civilian PS-90 release just around the corner, do you think everyone who buys it will find the weapon to be as bad as MP906 makes out? (11 negatives, 1 positive?) Like I said, they are just nitpicks (very shaky ones, too) and should not be forced on people. So far MP906 has come into almost half a dozen P90 threads like this and I don't expect him to stop, especially with you making an attempt to support it. -DmL

DmL, let me say this first.

I'm glad FN has released the P90 to civies. There are going to be a ton of people who buy it, and to me, I'm just happy that we Americans have access to another gun that formerly was out of our reach since the AWB sunset. And I hope it does sell well and encourage FN to get the ball rolling faster on the SCAR. Hell, I'll probably buy one eventually as well. Even if I'm not as impressed with it as many seem to be.

That being said, what really amazes me is the amount of crap thrown at a board member simply because he seems to disagree with you (and the others who have chimed in with name calling in this thread).

First, what the hell are you talking about MP906 FORCING his opinion on people?

 FORCING? So now sharing your opinion is now forcing huh? You do remember that this is a board where people share opinions right?

This is the internet remember.

And trying to justify FnMans calling him a liar is a joke as well. By that reasoning, the George Bush is a liar as too, just as the lunatic left claims.

Come one man, don't try playing a semantics game here.

You know, and I know, what somebody means when they call somebody a LIAR.

I don't take that accusation lightly, and damn sure don't throw it around lightly. And others shouldn't as well. To me, it's almost as bad as calling somebody a theif.


Maybe you can explain it to me, but I really don't understand the hostility, anger, and outright name calling by those who disagree with what MP906 has to say. If you could do this in a rational way, I'd be glad to hear it.

He is who he says he his, has spent time behind the weapon (more than many who have chimed in here), and therefore is a credible person. Whether you want to agree with him or not.


So maybe when you put choice number 3 in, that maybe neither him, nor your sources, are correct, and that it may simply be that some people like the gun and some don't, you said the smartest thing you've said so far.


Hell, does the fact that I prefer the Uzi over the MP5 automaticly discredit me due to others who say I'm wrong?

I don't think so.

So why the over reaction here?

Edited to add that I thought half the fun of this sight was arguing over what guns were better, or at least hearing other peoples point of view, even if they were wrong.

Before I start, pillbox is right, you really don't know what he does or doesn't know. It was foolish to make the "don't worry, pillbox is just a newbie troll" assumption.

That being said, what really amazes me is the amount of crap thrown at a board member simply because he seems to disagree with you (and the others who have chimed in with name calling in this thread).

I already said it has nothing to do with MP906 disagreeing with anyone.

FORCING? So now sharing your opinion is now forcing huh?

I don't see how you're missing this. He has ruined every P90 thread ever since he started just like he has ruined this one. It's fine if he thinks there is danger of the trigger being depressed by a thumb that is completely out of the way and exerting pressure away from the trigger. But is it worth posting in every single P90 thread that there is something about the weapon that doesn't suit him?

You know, and I know, what somebody means when they call somebody a LIAR.

No we don't. Anyone can mean anything when they say something. He could have meant MP906 was outright lying and hiding the truth, or he could have meant he was simply supplying information that was false. It can mean either and you don't always know.

So maybe when you put choice number 3 in, that maybe neither him, nor your sources, are correct, and that it may simply be that some people like the gun and some don't, you said the smartest thing you've said so far.

In that case he would have zero basis for enforcing his opinion. State it once, and that's enough. He claims "this" about the weapon, some claim "this" about it. End of story, and no more P90 threads suffer.


-DmL

Well  Shamus..the edit was to add the pic, Im sorry I didnt get your permission first. Too bad you have to go to such lenths to take credibility away from anyone you disagree with. If we lived closer to each other we could like hang out and you could tell me wonderous stories..or maybee not

WOW! Talk about heated!LOL! Anyway I just wanted to weigh in...I like the P90. I own a FiveseveN and it is a fun shooter (the front sight is a tad high though). I have not shot it just played with a supressed P90 at the 2004 Ohio Tatical Officers Assn meeting. My team is getting ready to trade in the MP5s for a new crop and wanted to know two things:

1) Is the P90 a good shooter as in easy to control keep on target?

2 to pillbox:

I have an SL8 that I just changed the magwell and stock on it for a G36 clone. What I was wondering since u guys got them and use them, are the guts plastic too? My firing mech. from the safety, disconnector and other parts in the trigger assy were all plastic and I wanted to know if the G36 guts were and also can you tell me is the 6th lug on the bolt a bitch to get off?

On mine when I had to change from the 5 lug bolt head (used for the 10 round US single stack mag) to the 6th lug one, that pin was afreaking pain. It looks  alot like an AR assy. but in the SL8 it was a real nightmare to get out and in. I needed a punch and brass hammer. I can't belive it would be the same in a rifle meant to be fielded and cleaned in the field.

And lastly does the G36 come with that same HK tool where you need to undo the two hex screws to slide the stock free and pull out the bolt assy?


Thanks, I was just BSing with my team LDR and thought I would ask someone who knows about the G36. We are going to try to test it with a P90, HK UMP, and some kind of AR system.

1*

Snpr1,

You should ask over on the Five-seveN forum. As you can see, this isn't the place to discuss things P90. Both pillbox and I are members over there.


-DmL

Cool! Didn't even know it existed! BTW- I'm just gonna email pillbox for these answers.

Thx!

DmL, so if I come on a P90 thread with an opinion different than yours, I'm "ruining" the thread???

Ok...

And I don't believe I've chimed in on more than three of these threads anyways.

Snpr1, we did the exact same thing, traded MP40s for P90s.  I'll let you make your opinion once you shoot it, but after a couple years of use, nearly everyone on our entry team prefers the MP40 over the P90 and the M4 system above both of those.

Kinda off topic, but since you mentioned the MP5 in .40 cal, Id like to try the 10mm version.  Too bad none of the HK clone companies makes a MP5 in 10mm, Id have to buy it for hog and goat hunting.

Quoted: DmL, so if I come on a P90 thread with an opinion different than yours, I'm "ruining" the thread??? Ok... And I don't believe I've chimed in on more than three of these threads anyways. Snpr1, we did the exact same thing, traded MP40s for P90s.  I'll let you make your opinion once you shoot it, but after a couple years of use, nearly everyone on our entry team prefers the MP40 over the P90 and the M4 system above both of those. [b]Oh, so your back on the MHP SWAT Team this week.  Your story changes every time you post.  Shamus, that is what we are are all upset about, not that he doesn't like the P-90 but that he claims to be a MHP Trooper one week and just a friend of some troopers another week.  In a nut shell, he claims to be an expert but his points lead everyone to believe he isn't.  By the way, I have talked to all of the 4 SWAT Team commanders and the only complaint that they hear from the team is that the ammo costs more than what they were paying for .40 and so they can't train as much.  I stick by my statement that MP906 has flat out lied in these posts.  That makes him a liar in my book.

MP906,

When the opinions are like yours, ("ergonomics suck horribly" and "11 negatives, 1 positive") they do tend to ruin a thread. Just look at this one.


-DmL

 Fnman, you are really clueless man.  I've never heard the term team "commanders."  Nice.  You are so full of sh*t.  I seriously doubt any of the team leaders would give someone like you the time of day.  How come you won't answer my IM's regarding this?  I IMed you like a month ago about this.  And you are calling ME a liar?  Do you want me to pose in uniform w/ a P90, holding a sign that says "fnman is an *sshat"??? And for the second time, it is MSHP not MHP.

I have met people from this board while in uniform for crying out loud(not on a traffic stop).  

You know what the most worthless thing about this thread is.
Opinions that weren't asked for. If you have that big of a problem with each other's opinions and such, take it to the pit. The topic was made to show a picture of a P90. The topic starter never asked for your opinions. He never asked who is associated with who. He never asked for people to shit on his thread.

Judging by his website, he has alot to share, and ruining his topic is just outright direspectful.

Mr. Silvers, I apologize for what's happened and I hope you remember that many of us appreciate your postings. Take care and keep up the good work.

That is a very cool pic!  The P-90 has the coolness factor that is for sure.  When they are out in the civilian version they will be the "cool weapon at the range".  



I have been lurking in the last 3 P-90 threads here, and I do not care for the tone, especially all from Missouri.  Whether from first hand experience or “I read it in an article” they all have merit.  If you disagree, well then say it….discrediting and calling someone a liar and go to the trouble to check with a vendor or threaten is a little overboard.  

We were discussing the term “DUPE” in the general forum…just the fact someone takes the time to type it and push it back to the top is really strange.  To really get emotionally charged over what someone says in an obscure and anonymous forum is questionable.  

I do not know you guys unfortunately, but we (Missourians) do need to use a friendly tone…remember guys it is a small world.

I have not shot the P-90 yet, but have held it MANY times…maybe at the next shoot!  


(And....hello Shamus)

Quoted:  Fnman, you are really clueless man.  I've never heard the term team "commanders."  Nice.  You are so full of sh*t.  I seriously doubt any of the team leaders would give someone like you the time of day.  How come you won't answer my IM's regarding this?  I IMed you like a month ago about this.  And you are calling ME a liar?  Do you want me to pose in uniform w/ a P90, holding a sign that says "fnman is an *sshat"??? And for the second time, it is MSHP not MHP. I have met people from this board while in uniform for crying out loud(not on a traffic stop).

Wow. I have IM'd fnman on a different board and I had to bring it to his attention before he noticed it and replied. And as for it being MSHP, not MHP, Shamus called it that too earlier. IBTL.


-DmL

Ok so I may have went off a little much on fnman.  Sorry, lets and make up.

It is not the butchering of our acronyms by itself, but fnman is suppossed to have all this supersecret inside knowledge and has spoken to all the..... "SWAT commanders"    Please...

As far as the IBTL, go back and look at page 1 and see who started the flamefest first.  It wasn't me.  

This thread must DIE...so as Bill O'Reilly says, I'll let you have the last word...



 

DmL5, more pics damnit!!!

Quoted: DmL5, more pics damnit!!!

Alright, I'll think about it. Keep an eye on the armory.


-DmL

Quoted: Quoted: DmL5, more pics damnit!!! Alright, I'll think about it. Keep an eye on the armory. -DmL

Werd.