Wondering What Would Be Best For Extreme CQB? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Wondering What Would Be Best For Extreme CQB? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 8/12/2005 1:08:43 PM EDT

[#1]

The pistol is the LAST gun to grab in an emergency. They are last hope weapons designed for portability. Anybody expecting trouble should grab the best fight-ender they can= shotgun or rifle.

Personally, I'd feel confident with an A-5 or M-4gery, and I have both.

Posted: 8/12/2005 8:30:30 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Most firepower? 30 rnds vs. 9 pellets x 5 rnds

Something goes bump in the night... you grab your shotgun. Adrenalin is pumping, you see the perp duck behind a corner and fire a few rounds at you with his nine milli pistol. Instinct kicks in and you blast of three shots in the space of 2 seconds at the target, miss each time.

You now have two shots left. Make the best of them. If you think you will make every hit count in a gunfight, you are kidding yourself.

Shotgun versus AR is no contest. If shotguns were so good, the US military would issue them to everyone.

Get the AR.

Posted: 8/12/2005 8:47:50 PM EDT

[#3]

Put a light on the M4 and get some less penetrative ammo, like the Hornady TAP stuff.

Your post is about home defense, not extreme CQB. RPG's at room-clearing range and having to capture a house just for a casualty collection point, that is a lot more extreme. Unless you're stringing Claymore mines to keep the crackheads at bay, you're probably more normal than you wish to be.

Posted: 8/12/2005 9:49:07 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd also choose the Bushmaster with some sort of light.

On another note some, of us have kids that don't sleep in the same room as us so at the very least I will need to leave my room and collect my kids and bring them to my room or leave the house.

While staying your room with you weapons pointed at the door is the best scenario some of us don't have this option.

Yeah, that's a whole other problem. I have that problem myself. In my case I have to violate
my own rule of clearing a house, to get to my 10 year old.

My wife stays in the bedroom armed and on the phone, I have to get to the kids room.
Not a pretty situation that one.

I won't be returning to the master bedroom, my wife stays there and I stay in the kids room.
Start moving around and someone will get shot. But, this is worst case and I sure hope
it never happens, it has a very high chance of not ending well.

I bring the problem even furthur, I have 3 kids, all small and with 2 off a separate hallway from the master and the third in a separate wing of the house.

WTF, do I do in this situation. I have all the weapons the original poster has as well, and I pretty much have to do SOMETHING to collect the younglings.

Of course that is a GIVEN. The initial replies we gave were on the assumption that you either do not have kids (or other members of the household) or that you all sleep in the same room.

With that said, again, take the gun you are most comfortable / trained with and the most reliable you know of.

Posted: 8/12/2005 10:06:46 PM EDT

[#5]

AR w/30rds.

16" or 20" would work in my house.

Shotguns are fine, but limited capacity and human error (with a pump, or possible reloading) isn't something I'd want to hang my arse on the line for.

WIZZO

Posted: 8/12/2005 10:29:37 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

*(None of these are kept loaded, ammo is locked away, this is merely a hypothectical situation)*.

All of my guns are loaded. With magazines beside them.

Posted: 8/12/2005 10:44:44 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Most firepower? 30 rnds vs. 9 pellets x 5 rnds hr

Something goes bump in the night... you grab your shotgun. Adrenalin is pumping, you see the perp duck behind a corner and fire a few rounds at you with his nine milli pistol. Instinct kicks in and you blast of three shots in the space of 2 seconds at the target, miss each time.

You now have two shots left. Make the best of them. If you think you will make every hit count in a gunfight, you are kidding yourself.

Shotgun versus AR is no contest. If shotguns were so good, the US military would issue them to everyone.

Get the AR.

Adrenalin or not, I was raised on a shotgun and I seldomly miss. Birds, squirrels, clay pidgeons. At room/house engagement distances on a two legged target , if I miss even one time, I have no right to be firing.
Score a hit, and it's lights out.

Of course, to use a shotgun is my own personal opinion. Yours and quite the majority of this forum is the AR. Sounds good. Whatever you're confident with. That's the beauty of it all. Choices, choices, choices.
The weapon that is the best for you is the weapon you're comfortable and proficient with.

For me though, I'll take 41 pellets of 3 inch mag no.4's in my ol' Remington 870. Wouldn't feel outgunned even with a magazine capacity of two
- Hunt

Posted: 8/12/2005 10:50:01 PM EDT

[#8]

Posted: 8/12/2005 10:59:38 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Most firepower? 30 rnds vs. 9 pellets x 5 rnds

Something goes bump in the night... you grab your shotgun. Adrenalin is pumping, you see the perp duck behind a corner and fire a few rounds at you with his nine milli pistol. Instinct kicks in and you blast of three shots in the space of 2 seconds at the target, miss each time.

You now have two shots left. Make the best of them. If you think you will make every hit count in a gunfight, you are kidding yourself.

Shotgun versus AR is no contest. If shotguns were so good, the US military would issue them to everyone.

Get the AR.

Right bud. Trying to compare what is best inside a house to what the military uses as their basic weapon is asinine. In defending your house you don't need, nor are you justified in taking shots at, the range that the military needs in their basic weapon. But, since you brought the topic up, why don't you do a little research on the history of the shotgun in the military from the good ole trench gun forward before you make such a stupid statement in the again. Ask a few Iraq Vets if they would have liked a 12 gauge during urban patrols.

Posted: 8/12/2005 11:00:51 PM EDT

[#10]

Yes, Lumpy, that was an extremely well thought post that added a great deal to the thread.
Thank you for your talents

Posted: 8/12/2005 11:02:11 PM EDT

[#11]

Living in Minnesota I would not want to be sitting in front of a jury with the prosecuting attorney holding up an "evil assault weapon". There are tons of duck hunters here, the only people who I have met who think you should have the right to own an AR are from this board. Even serious hunters and shooters I know want them banned. In Minnesota you must prove you were in danger of death or serious bodily harm before you can take the shot. Here an AR would be just the ammo the lawyers would need to make you look like you were itching to kill someone. I guess you need to factor in where you live too. Just my opinion but, I personally can do just fine from 25 feet with a shotgun anyway.

Posted: 8/12/2005 11:03:54 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Yes, Lumpy, that was an extremely well thought post that added a great deal to the thread.
Thank you for your talents

Thanks.

It really wasnt worth my time because this one has been beat into the dirt around here.

Posted: 8/12/2005 11:09:42 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, Lumpy, that was an extremely well thought post that added a great deal to the thread.
Thank you for your talents hr

Thanks.

It really wasnt worth my time because this one has been beat into the dirt around here.

Well, this forum feels like it should be named Deja Vu sometimes with the same conversations coming up week in and week out, I admit. But sometimes it's half the fun.

Posted: 8/13/2005 6:10:24 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Right bud. Trying to compare what is best inside a house to what the military uses as their basic weapon is asinine. In defending your house you don't need, nor are you justified in taking shots at, the range that the military needs in their basic weapon. But, since you brought the topic up, why don't you do a little research on the history of the shotgun in the military from the good ole trench gun forward before you make such a stupid statement in the again. Ask a few Iraq Vets if they would have liked a 12 gauge during urban patrols.

There are more reasons than RANGE to chose a rifle over a shotgun. Like I mentioned, follow shots and overall mag capacity are limited. If you are on your own and get into a gunfight, you better hope all your shots count. And for those who never miss when hunting, well, the animals don't shoot back. As for asking an Iraqi vet, hold on...

Self, would you have wanted a 12 guage during urban patrols?

No, never really felt the need.

I kill myself sometimes.

Posted: 8/13/2005 6:17:23 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
................. As for asking an Iraqi vet, hold on...

Self, would you have wanted a 12 guage during urban patrols?

No, never really felt the need.

I kill myself sometimes.

That was a good one.

Posted: 8/13/2005 7:08:34 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

There are more reasons than RANGE to chose a rifle over a shotgun. Like I mentioned, follow shots and overall mag capacity are limited. If you are on your own and get into a gunfight, you better hope all your shots count. And for those who never miss when hunting, well, the animals don't shoot back.

You're missing the point entirely. The fact that a rifle makes the best sense for the basic military weapon does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that it is the best choice for home defense. You might need 30 rounds to defend your house, but most people won't. As a matter of fact, most of the reports I have seen/heard concerning home defense cite minimal rounds fired (1-3). If you don't think a shotgun can defend a house VERY successfully you are deluding yourself and are ignorant of the fact that they have done many times - I would almost go out on a limb and say much more so than AR's without having anything in print to support it. I like the AR platform as much as any guy but to say it is just far and away the best choice for home defense is nonsense.

Self, would you have wanted a 12 guage during urban patrols?

No, never really felt the need.

I kill myself sometimes.

That was pretty funny, I'll give you that. Who were you there with on a company level? Everywhere I turn is someone coming home from the box and all I hear is how well the shotguns perform.

Posted: 8/13/2005 10:32:33 AM EDT

[#17]

Anybody factor in the much worse 5.56 blast? Without hearing pro the 5.56
is IMHO a no go for indoor home defense.

Posted: 8/13/2005 10:59:07 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Anybody factor in the much worse 5.56 blast? Without hearing pro the 5.56
is IMHO a no go for indoor home defense.

I'll take the potential hearing loss/degredation to use the best tool possible to save my life and the lives of my family. Somethings really are secondary considerations, the blast created by the gun is one of those things, besides that, a 12ga going off in a closed in area is going to be just as loud.

Posted: 8/13/2005 11:18:57 AM EDT

[#19]

why not hunker down in your room with all three. they could be zombies!

Posted: 8/13/2005 1:19:17 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

That was pretty funny, I'll give you that. Who were you there with on a company level? Everywhere I turn is someone coming home from the box and all I hear is how well the shotguns perform.

Its all good.

I was fortunate enough to be an Infantry Platoon Leader with 1-327 IN RGT, 101st Airborne Division. Not saying shotguns are good weapons, they are great weapons. And if we had them, we would have appreciated them. The 101st has shotguns now, but we just made do without them in round 1 and rely on Blackhawk Hooligan tools for breaching. Pity the private who carried those, he was a great soldier and never complained.

The discussion here is what is the SINGLE weapon one man would want to defend a house. Any gun is good, shotguns are better, but IMHO a rifle is best.

Posted: 8/13/2005 1:41:10 PM EDT

[#21]

Why not get yourself a good gas mask and flood your house with O.C. there's various ways of doing it from canisters you could throw to devices set off by trip wires, after that the only house clearing you would have to do is opening windows to air the place out. I know this may not work for some because of home layout but if it would work for you it's a better plan than house clearing by your self with any firearm. O'yeah I know it will be rough on other family members but they will get over it.

Posted: 8/13/2005 1:45:51 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Why not get yourself a good gas mask and flood your house with O.C. there's various ways of doing it from canisters you could throw to devices set off by trip wires, after that the only house clearing you would have to do is opening windows to air the place out. I know this may not work for some because of home layout but if it would work for you it's a better plan than house clearing by your self with any firearm. O'yeah I know it will be rough on other family members but they will get over it.

Good idea.

Posted: 8/13/2005 1:55:07 PM EDT

[#23]

Moving to General Firearm Discussion.

Posted: 8/13/2005 5:44:02 PM EDT

[#24]

Why underpower yourself when you are in need of firing power? Besides, the AR can be used as a stick when empty.

Why shine light on somebody when they deserve a bullet? Instead of the stupid SureFire, why not just get a NV? There's no better situation than that you can see everything but the badguys can't see shit.

Posted: 8/13/2005 5:55:01 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Why underpower yourself when you are in need of firing power? Besides, the AR can be used as a stick when empty.

Why shine light on somebody when they deserve a bullet? Instead of the stupid SureFire, why not just get a NV? There's no better situation than that you can see everything but the badguys can't see shit.

Night Vision severly limits peripheral vision, Murphy fucks with it to no end, and unless you are filthy rich you can't get a model with depth perception. White light is the only way to go--and it stuns the bad guys while you shoot them.

Posted: 8/13/2005 5:59:38 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Why underpower yourself when you are in need of firing power? Besides, the AR can be used as a stick when empty.

Why shine light on somebody when they deserve a bullet? Instead of the stupid SureFire, why not just get a NV? There's no better situation than that you can see everything but the badguys can't see shit.

Even in the Infantry we used NV and white lights... they have two totally seperate roles. Plus, as noted above, most of us can't afford good NV.

Posted: 8/13/2005 6:38:24 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Why underpower yourself when you are in need of firing power? Besides, the AR can be used as a stick when empty.

Why shine light on somebody when they deserve a bullet? Instead of the stupid SureFire, why not just get a NV? There's no better situation than that you can see everything but the badguys can't see shit.

Even in the Infantry we used NV and white lights... they have two totally seperate roles. Plus, as noted above, most of us can't afford good NV.

The light is to make damned sure that what you are about to shoot needs shooting.

You're in deep legal doo doo if it doesn't.

Posted: 8/13/2005 6:42:11 PM EDT

[#28]

Havent added in my 2 cents worth in a while so here goes.
The following is what my grandfather used to say.

RULE 1:: Shotgun used for killing birds, Food Only, No People.
RULE 2:: Pistol used for carry, Its small Duh. IE your last resort when on a hot summer day carrying a rifle is OUT.
RULE 3:: Rifle Is Well a Rifle. It will kill just do your job. A shotgun and a pistol will kill to BUT SEE Rules 1 and 2

Follow the 3 rule system and you will be ok.

SO the rules say THE AR15 Dude.

Grandaddy said something else PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. Wait thats what others have said. They are smart like Grandfather

Posted: 8/13/2005 7:00:13 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Havent added in my 2 cents worth in a while so here goes.
The following is what my grandfather used to say.

RULE 1:: Shotgun used for killing birds, Food Only, No People.
RULE 2:: Pistol used for carry, Its small Duh. IE your last resort when on a hot summer day carrying a rifle is OUT.
RULE 3:: Rifle Is Well a Rifle. It will kill just do your job. A shotgun and a pistol will kill to BUT SEE Rules 1 and 2

Follow the 3 rule system and you will be ok.

SO the rules say THE AR15 Dude.

Grandaddy said something else PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. Wait thats what others have said. They are smart like Grandfather

Wow, I like what you said it makes sense.

Posted: 8/14/2005 4:20:39 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Why underpower yourself when you are in need of firing power? Besides, the AR can be used as a stick when empty.

Why shine light on somebody when they deserve a bullet? Instead of the stupid SureFire, why not just get a NV? There's no better situation than that you can see everything but the badguys can't see shit.

[wayne's world]So it's not just a clever name[/wayne's world]

Lets see $80 flashlight V.s $3,000 NVD for target ID at short range, indoors hmmmm. While i'd love the have the NVD, I think the flashlight is a little more practical. And having an NVD doesn't negate the use of a light either. The light is not just so you can see shit, it can be used as a weapon too. Surefires are bright enough that if you have one shinned in your eyes, your not going to be able to sit there an look right at it, you will look away or cover your eyes with your hand. It's a natural reflex to do that. That gives the person using that light a couple extra seconds to do whatever they have to do, hell it might just send the BG on his way, or at the least force them to drop a weapon that they may have been holding. The light is just like the gun, it's a tool and has a job. If you can afford 3k for some top of the line NVD, cool shit, but most folks can't justify the expence of a NVD while they can easily justify the price of a surefire or other high output light.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Wondering What Would Be Best For Extreme CQB? (Page 2 of 2)

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