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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - G3 vs. FAL (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/31/2005 7:02:02 PM EDT
| Preference, and why? |
+1, Could not have said it better myself. Besides adding I do not like Stamped Sheet metal receivers on guns, Look & feel cheap. "Love that machined steel"
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Ditto & ditto. FAL all the way. |
All but two could be said about g3 as well. Gas adjustment and 40 countries. How many countries use m16/m4 as their main rifle? How many use ak's? Are we really gonna use this to determine the quality of a rifle? Doubt it. And the reliability of the g3 system is just as good. If not better, has no fail point in relativity. Recoil only bothers paper punchers and pansies. Which are you? 
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I have shot the HK a bunch and shot the FAL a few times. The FAL is the nicer of the two, balances better, shoots better, recoil is smoother - the HK with that massive bolt carrier isn't the smoothest. Can't say recoil is bad in either, I think a lot of people mistake recoil in the HK with that Honker bolt carrier moving back and forth. |
And their beautiful what...? Their beautiful appearance? Just kidding....I agree, they're very nice looking rifles. |
| I've owned a couple of both type rifles and they both have good and bad points, but I think the the HK91/G3 is the better gun. The FAL's accuracy runs from not all that great to flat out bad, depending on the gun. The FAL's sights suck and are probably a big part of the problem accuracy wise. The G3's sights are about the best combat sights going and are very rugged, fast and easy to use, especially once you understand them. I keep hearing complaints about recoil on the G3 and I have to assume its from the "younger" generations that grew up shooting the smaller caliber guns and didn't learn to shoot the larger calibers properly. I dont really notice any difference in recoil between the FAL and G3, especially when the FAL is set to function properly.(my experience has been that an improperly adjusted FAL will have reliability problems and its better to have it cycle than tap you less) I think the comment about paper punchers holds a lot of weight here. The cheap mag thing goes to the G3. They can be had for $2 at places like CTD. The G3 has the advantage of easily attached options and the claw mount that is zero repeatable puts it WAY ahead of the FAL, and makes it easily scoped or dot sighted or not at a whim. It also has a decent sling set up that works as it comes. My only real complaint about them is the charging handle, but that can be worked out with practice. |
My cetem has less felt recoil than my FAL and M14. I have read where to recoil on a G3 is changed by the amount of wear in the lock up roller sysytem. While at the greatest amount of gap allowed ( about .018 ) it is said to be more harsh. When the rifle is worn in and the gap decreases the recoil softs.. I do not know this to be FACT, But have read it many times ... And have experianced it with my own rifle.I have my Cetem at .009 .The recoil is very light. I also have new recoil springs in it . You would be surprised at how old some of the springs are in all our rifles. Change them out with fresh ones.  WarDawg
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FAL. Right Arm of the Free World. Well that is until they got ahold of them cheap ak's.  I like the FAL more because of its design, buildability, adaptibility, versatility and its reliability. Woo, I better stop. Really I like the FAL better cause thats the only one of the two I have. 
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Guess you haven't seen these FAL's.....  Keep in mind, FAL's run the spectrum of crappy parts guns, to exceptionally well made, highly accurate rifles. You get what you pay for in the FAL world. All the criticisms you made against the FAL have readily available answers that more than make up for the flaws you've observed. |
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M4, Your right about "you get what you pay for"(most of the time). I'm sure if you price the ones shown in the pic, they are at the upper end of the FAL scale. I was basing my experiences on guns of more or less equal grades, (FN and HK91) and not match grade, custom built or tuned guns. I think if your going to compare guns, especially of this type, it should be based on "as issued" quality rifles in "as issued" configurations. At least that way, your comparing apples to apples, etc. If you do this, I think you will find the "real" G3 is the better all around rifle, especially in the accuracy department, over the various issued versions of the FAL, and for that matter, the M14. No doubt, the commercial FAL's made here recently have come a long way from what used to be available, but I dont consider them to be the "common" FAL, at least not yet. The kit guns from who or where ever, are at best hit or miss, and really dont count for comparing, at least I dont think so. |
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Having owned several examples of each...all factory new guns, no "builds"... in the past, I found the FAL to be much the better rifle for ME...YMMV. Balances and "feels" much better for me (feel is very subjective). I do not find recoil to be anything to speak of with either. Reliability is excellent with both, both weigh about the same, and currently a factory new example of either (FN or German H&K) will cost about the same as well. At one time, however, the H&K could be bought for $299 dealer cost while the FN has always been very expensive. (Yes, those WERE the days!) The H&K feels better to me with the slim fore end on it...like a different rifle almost. Certainly the H&K is an excellent rifle as well, and extremely reliable (stay away from the lightweight mags, however). Today, the only ones I own are FALs, but if I saw an excelleny deal on the H&K I would not pass one up. My vote in today's market? FAL! |
See people, this quoted post is EXACTLY what happens when you skim past posted photo's....because if he had seen QuietShooters FAL above, there's no fuckin' way he'd be able to write what he did. Edited to add: "More reliable"?!? 
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One or two souped up guns dont make the rest of the model a shooter. Overall, and right out of the box, the G3's do have the better sights, and also come right from the box with the capability of being scoped or dot sighted without having to modify the gun, your average FAL does not. Even if you add all the extras, it doesnt mean you will have a gun that shoots great or works right, even if it does take pretty pictures. I had two FAL's that were exactly that, pretty picture takers and terrible guns. I've never shot an HK91 or a real G3 that did not shoot well or need to be fiddled with to shoot any ammo put in the gun. Of the thousands and thousands of rounds I've fired through these type rifles, I cant remember ever having a cycling or feeding problem, with any ammo that was put in them. I cant say that of the FAL's I've shot or owned. If you want to compare accurate rifles of each model, lets put the PSG1 up against the best of the FAL's and see how well they do. |
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when i was shopping .308 cases at a gunshow a while back i was getting ready to grab some surplus malaysian. dealer told me it wouldn't work in hks. headspaced for NATO only? i almost killed a kid with a spent shell from my hk91 clone. 30 feet away! i've had girlfriends that weighed less than the bolt. it ain't recoil, but that 16 pound bolt does SOMETHING in there that god never intended. but those sights rock! |
not the bolt at all,, its the unlocking times and the LP angles. the sharper the LP angles the sharper the recoil as more pressure is need'd to unlock them. Thats why alot of G3's/91 are hard to cocck, and recoil more. For one the recoil spring in it is stiff,alot stiffer than its dad the cetme, also the recoil buffer(yes they come factory withone!) is a spring style buffer, not a rubber one(like the cetme) that combined with the sharper LP angles make for more flet recoil. as for the maylay ammo,,ive never heard that before,, all g3/91 should work with nato ammo,,dont see why they wouldnt, unless he wasnt cleaning his flutes out causeing FTE's. that all being said. cetme/Hk/g3 sights better than fal cetme/g3 parts are all over mags 1.97$ havent seen fal ones fer that cheap the Hk/cetme rifles are atad lighter than the Fal Hk/cetme rifles are not gas op'd rifles,,no parts to break or plug up, and ANY ammo can be fired with out having to adjust for it! basiclly it boils down to do you like gas op'd rifles and how the rifle feels in your arms! |
+1, the G3 is THE most reliable .308 out there, bar none. It basically never breaks a thing. Also, the FAL has a lot more parts than the G3 and is harder to break down. |
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I never found the Fal harder to break down than the Cetmes or Hks I own an L1A1, and had a chance to buy a HK91, I nver bought the HK because A: I didn't need another 7.62 rifle that takes another type of mag B: It didn't do anything better than the FAL, and a few things worse. But I'd take a HK over an AK in combat any day, especially if thr ranges exceed 200M or theirs heavy cover to penetrate, vehicles to kill ect. _____________________________________________ Dirty deeds...done dirt cheap 
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What's wrong with an FAL/G3/AR10/M1A? The range of options contained in the above mentioned .308's is vast to say the least. I'll tell you right off the bat, the civi-SCAR will not be some wonder rifle that has created a whole new catagory for itself. It's just another .308 platform. |
well if ya wanna split straws the Hk G3 series didnt get adapted by germany till the mid 60's(after 63) after they took over production from spain's C.e.t..m.e(INI) plant. Fal came about same time the cetme was developed as did the m14(mid tolate 50's) ect.. so the actually HK G3 style rifle is the youngest of the 3...
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didn't say anything wrong with them. hk: i shoot rifles southpaw. bolt weighs as much as a small dog. seems to recoil more than the rest. ar10: looking better with the ban over. i had heard that their warranty was non transferrable, but someone contradicted me on another thread. anyone? i'm also concerned because it's not a weapon adopted by a military. makes it srtictly proprietary in terms of parts. there's no unformity among .308 ar designs. and who wants to spend $40 on mags? m1a: no pistol grip. bolt handle pokes me in the chest when slung. see $40 mag comment above. expensive to buy. expensive to make accurate. springfield ran out of surplus parts- quality is down. my buddy has a m1a that won't shoot 3moa. fal: sights suck. not reported to have the accuracy of the rest of the field. if i had to buy a .308 today, it would be a dsa fal. like i said, nothing wrong with them, i'm just not thrilled with 'em. |
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FAL all the way. You can get an awsome FAL clone for as low as $500, this would only get you a Century CETME clone that is a POS. CETME/G3 have nothing close to DSA and as a result the avalible clones are all inferior to equaly priced FAL clones. G3 also spits casings WAY TO FAR. It can't shoot commercial .308 because it sheers the thinner brass to pieces. It also has a stouter recoil and I don't feel it is as accurate as the FAL. FAL is simple and easy to clean and disassemble, I don't have this impression of the G3 with its de-layed roll back deal. I'm told you have to fix barings a lot of times and reshape them for the bolt to work right. FAL doesnt have this problem. FAL made by FNH G3 made by H&K Real hard one there. |
Why is this a problem?
Sure it can. If you dont use a port buffer, it can tear brass up, if you do use the buffer, it wont. The fluted chamber doesnt bother the brass either if you want to reload, thats another myth.
I guess recoil is a personal thing. I never really noticed any difference between the two. The accuracy issue is a big difference and if you compare equal FAL's to G3's, the FAL doesnt even come close!
The G3 may be a little more dirty when your done, due to the fluted chamber, but I dont really see any difference in cleaning or disassembling either. They both come apart easy enough and go back together the same. It helps if you know how to get the G3's bolt back together, but its no problem once you know how. You were told wrong about the rollers. The only time I've ever had any trouble with them was in my MP5 after literally tens of thousands of rounds of full auto through it. All that happened was the retaining clip broke. The gun was still working with it broke and I only noticed it when the roller fell out when I went to clean it. Never had any trouble with rollers or retainers in my 91's and they both had a bunch of rounds through them. Drive out one pin, replace the retainer and rollers and reinsert the pin. That all there is to that, if it should ever happen. Out of about 5 of us that have HK's, both full and semi auto's, mine has been the only one that had a roller problem, and combined, the number of rounds between us is probably approaching the consumption of smaller army's. :) |
Let me address the complaints you list against the M14 type rifles. First of all, plenty of pistol grips exist for the M14, you can get several different makes and models. Secondly, Magd are not $40... since the end of the ban, USGI mags have dropped to $20-25. $25-30 for NIW! And you can get the Tiwanese mags, which work just as well as USGI, for $13 a piece. Mag price is no longer an issue for the M14. Expensive to make accurate? The M14 is the most accurate .308 service rifle right out of the box. I know of many shooters who can easily get 2-1.5moa with standard M14's and SURPLUS ammo! Sure, the springfield M1A's have dropped in quality, so get an Armscorp, Fulton, or LRB M14 rifle with all USGI parts. Heck, even the old M1a's had all USGI parts and were quality rifles. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - G3 vs. FAL (Page 1 of 2)
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