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Posted: 8/13/2003 1:08:45 PM EDT
Ok so I tried to find a good AR10 for less than 600.00 and found squat.I thought well just settle and buy a AR15 but I really don't need another 223.so I'm looking around and see these CETME's for 300.00 Wow! and I'm thinking buy one put two or three hundred in it and bang I got a good 308 semi auto .I know century is making most of these guns and I also know there less than good at quality control.My questions are.

1.does anyone else make them better?

2.can I expect at least one inch groups
or better from one.

3.Is there a sorce for longer more accuarte barrels?

4.Where can I find a dealer that will give a good warranty or do a hand select and would it be worth the cost of hand select or a waist of money?
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 1:46:42 PM EDT
1. i dont think so. but there are several smiths that will rework them. there's one in particular but i cant remember.
2. yes. if you get a good one.
3. dont think so.
4. aim surplus is a good one.

check these out. they know way more than i do.
www.geocities.com/miketheelectrician1/cetme1.html

www.gunboards.com/forums/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Headlines&BID=30&SID=1830136

Link Posted: 8/13/2003 5:43:06 PM EDT
For $600 you can get a nicely built FN/FAL built by Ohio Rapid Fire. Great company, great folks!

www.ohiorapidfire.com
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 5:11:02 AM EDT
HiramRanger can a FAL for 600 deliver consestent sub MOA groups?
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 5:33:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2003 5:39:11 AM EDT by davidp14]
found the smith i was talking about. and he does builds too.
www.angelfire.com/ok5/pcsinc/imc_HK_Services.htm

pic of the finest cetme ive ever seen:
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 5:47:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2003 5:48:44 AM EDT by rocko]

Originally Posted By 2-gun:
HiramRanger can a FAL for 600 deliver consestent sub MOA groups?



Err... if that's what you're looking for, a $300 CETME isn't the answer. A $600 semi that can guarantee consistent sub-moa is a pretty tall order. Not to say that you can't get lucky, but no manufacturer is going to guarantee that. You really can't expect too much better than 2-3 MOA with surplus ammo out of your typical battle rifle.

Rocko
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 11:54:21 AM EDT
Ok after much thought I have decided to buy a H&K clone or CETME and a savage 110fp .The savage is the most accuarte 308 I can afford.I will also have enough left out of 800 to buy a CETME for fun.

I don't won't another 223 and I can't afford a AR type 308.I looked hard at the DPMS but I've got burned on plastic liped clips before and swore I would never buy another plastic clip ever.I know I can fork over another 100 or so and buy a metal clip for the DPMS but I don't trust any gun that is sold with plastic clips.

I am not saying these are bad guns I truly don't know .But I'm so badly burned by plastic clips I cant look any farther.

I had a Magnum research Mountian eagle with plastic clips and they where junk!!!!! The clips now cost 50 bucks for plastic if you can find them.Also I was one of the dump arses that bought one of thoes 10/22 plastic clips another pice of crapola. Brass on plastic which one do you thinks gonna take the wear?
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 7:47:40 PM EDT
the 10fp is an exellent gun! a friend of mine has one in 308 and i love it. (so does he)
his is the long barrel but i want the LE version w/ a 20" barrel. ive got too many other projects im working on now though.

anyway i donr think youll be sorry with your choice. just dont forget that with the cetme it may need some TLC to get up to par.
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 10:30:55 PM EDT
I wanted an AR10 too, and bought a cetme. if you get a good cetme they are a bargain. the one sog sent to me was a POS. I finally bought the AR10 and sold my cetme at a gunshow.
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 11:12:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2003 11:17:03 PM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
2 gun where are you in MO? Have you actually shot a CETME or a FAL? If you're close to me I could arrange some shooting time, or come out to the next MODCC shoot in Columbia and we'll have main battle rifles for you to play with there.

Its best to try something out firsthand before you buy, don't you think?

Also, a few details:

1. No semi-auto .308 in your price range will ever be sub-MOA. There are $1800 Armalite AR10Ts out there that are not sub-MOA out the box, they must be tuned and ammunition must be loaded specifically for each gun to achieve that performance level. What ammunition were you planning on using for your sub-MOA battle rifle? Hope you weren't thinking of using military surplus or you're in for a big surprise. In any case, if you can get sub-inch groups at 100 yards with iron sights on any of your rifles, at any price, I could use some instruction from you on how to shoot accurately when we meet!

2. Hand select is always worth the money. You're spending hundreds of dollars on a gun and probably at least $25 on shipping, why not pay another $10 to have them pick out a decent one off the rack for you? Always get the best condition gun offered, every time, especially in this price range.

3. Clips are what feed an M1 Garand. Stripper clips are what feed Enfields and Mausers. AR15s, CETMES, and AR10s feed from magazines. Only inner city gangstas and white trash with plastic-stocked SKS's are allowed to say "clips" when they mean "magazines", and I'm sure you're neither one of those people!

4. BARRELS: Even if there were a source for longer, more accurate barrels, installing one would cost more than the rifle is worth. In a G3/CETME style gun, you would have to remove the barrel and trunion assembly (kinda a bitch since its welded in there), press the new barrel onto a new trunion (got a 12-ton press handy?), and reweld the trunion back inside the receiver, and maintain perfect barrel-to-reciever alignment the whole time. You wouldn't want to shoot 5 yards to the right at 100 yards like my G3 clone did when I first got it, yes I made Century do what I just described under warranty and it took them over 3 months to get the gun back to me.

Also, did you consider how much extra weight a longer barrel would add? These main battle rifles are heavy guns to begin with, and many a shooter who thinks he's a "real man" can't hold the rifle steady for a full 20 round mag. They get impatient because their arms get tired, so they wind up dumping off the last 7 or 8 rounds rambo style or switching to shooting from a rest. The G3/CETME weighs in at about 9.7 pounds, and my FAL tips the scales at about 11 pounds with the bipod. Again, I'll be glad to let you shoot my stuff sometime.

Email or IM me if you have any further questions. I also used to own a Savage 10FP, they are good for the money but also need a little attention to detail (and careful handloading) to bring out their full potential. Order from Aimsurplus with confidence in any case.



Link Posted: 8/16/2003 4:11:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Only inner city gangstas and white trash with plastic-stocked SKS's are allowed to say "clips" when they mean "magazines", and I'm sure you're neither one of those people!



thanks, kinda a peeve of mine too.

where'd ya get the wide forearm?
thats half the reason id like to get the g3 wannabe instead of the cetme, those fat h'gurards are dead sexy!
also ive heard the CIA g3 has way less problems too and adjustable sights.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 9:56:03 AM EDT
Yeah, that particular gun came with that wide green furniture, which is in great condition. I got it at a gun store in Kansas City, its the only Century gun I've ever seen with the wide furniture on it. Apparently Century did a limited run awhile back of G3 clones with like-new barrels and wide furniture, and this gun store snapped it up. I gladly paid $650 for it.

FAC sells the wide green furniture seperately, but its not made in the USA so you'll have US parts count issues to deal with. A friend bought a set from FAC and was disappointed in the condition of the furniture, although I haven't seen it firsthand.

The G3 sights are superior to the CETME sights. The "paddlewheel" rear sight on the CETME is welded in place, totally non-adjustable for windage or elevation. This means on the CETME the front sight adjusts both windage and elevation, and only to about 6 MOA. Thus, if your CETME is more than 6 inches off at 100 yards (pretty common actually), it will NEVER be sighted in with the iron sights no matter what you do. This is why I see alot of CETME owners putting optics or red-dots on their guns.

I like the wood on the CETME's though, if you sand it down and refinish it with polyurethane you can build a beautiful looking rifle.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 10:53:45 AM EDT
Why would you have parts count issues switching from the wood on a CETME to foreign plastic. From what I recall the wood on a CETME is not US made... Am I wrong about this? If it is US made wood why were the early examples so nice and the recent ones such shit? I'm guessing that is because the best parts kits were used first - mine is gorgeous, and the later ones are shit.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 12:05:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2003 12:06:13 PM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why would you have parts count issues switching from the wood on a CETME to foreign plastic. From what I recall the wood on a CETME is not US made... Am I wrong about this? If it is US made wood why were the early examples so nice and the recent ones such shit? I'm guessing that is because the best parts kits were used first - mine is gorgeous, and the later ones are shit.



You are correct, I was unclear in my statement. The wood on a CETME is foreign, so they have more US made parts in them than the G3 clones. To put G3 style furniture on a CETME can be done but requires modifying the furniture (I'm not sure exactly how, there is a website somewhere on how to put G3 furniture on a CETME though). I was speaking of changing out the crappy "slimline" US made furniture on the Century G3 clone with higher quality foreign made "wide" furniture. In that case, you would be replacing (crappy) US made parts with (nice) foreign parts.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 12:15:27 PM EDT
Gotya... I probably didn't read it clearly. I have thought about putting that sexy OD furniture on mine, but the wood is so gorgeous I think I'll leave it alone.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 2:51:18 PM EDT
Thanks guys some grate answers .I will for sure be buying a Savage 110fp altho now I am trying to decide which calaber to get 25/06 ,300 win mag or 308 win. I am leaning toward 308 but I love the accuarcy of the 25/06 .

That will only leave me with about 350 total for the Semi auto .So I'll try to find a good supplyier that will do a hand select.

Duke Nukem Sorry about the clip thing I guess I'm just a lazy typer.

I live in south east MO and don't get much shooting time but would love to go to MODCC if I get the chance.

I don't think I could shoot 1 MOA or under with iron sites but that's why I would like a gun that can because I want to know it's me and not the gun .

I like the FN FAL but I would be wasting my time trying to find one for 300-350 That's why I think I'm gonna get the CETME .The main reasion I am gonna get one is because liberals don't like them so they can't be all bad.

I spend hours cleanning and fixing up my guns and a FIXABLE CETME sounds like fun.I am very mechanicaly inclined and even fabed a hammer and sear for old 12 ga that works like new.
I can weld if I need to and I have used a press for years working on cars so that's not a problem.What conserns me more than anything is things that can't be fixed such as bore condition. ground bolt ,bad welds, incorrect holes drilled ,pitted parts. Hopefuly getting a hand select will elemanate most of these problems and leave only the ones I can fix.

As to loads I plan to buy some good box ammo probably black hills to check the accuarcy.I am going to get a loading press around christmas but I'll wait till then to start that.


Duke Nukem you mentioned AIM surplus Gotta link?
Will they do a hand select?

What about getting my FFL dealer to order direct from Century?What disadvantage does this pose?
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 3:30:20 PM EDT
There are plenty of used century FALs out there to be had for $300-$350. Most are more then serviceable, at least as much as the Cetme is... and they are easier to work on, more parts available and more mods you can do to them. Keep your eye on the Equipment Exchange or pay a visit to www.falfiles.com and check out their marketplace for a lot of used FALs in all price ranges.

Good luck to you!
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 7:59:21 PM EDT
the only thing you have to do to put G3 furn. on a cetme is dremel off the little ears on the barrel that wil get in the way. you have to be commited to the new furn set though obviously.

the site that had step by step instructions on how to do it keeps redirecting to the forum.

i do really love the wood on the cetme when it is nicely restored though, which is why i must have both!

right now im finishing up an imbel FAL build which will be my first fal. next is an AMD 65 build, and then ill find a cetme of my own. unless something else catches my eye. maybe a ballester mollina rebuild....who knows.
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