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Posted: 7/29/2003 10:21:54 AM EDT
i see all these pictures of AR's with flashlights, those verticle grips that go on the front of the rifle. now if you are on the swat team i can see a use for them, or in the military. whats the point in a regular civilian having one? do you really plan on storming a house at night? do you plan on taking out the power in a building? and please dont say for "self defense". im not flaming im just wondering why some of you people have them on your guns
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 10:45:38 AM EDT
For the same reasons people have:

Redi-mags
Mag-puls
RIS/RAS systems
AN/PVS14s
etc etc etc...

..Because they can

I wouldn't mind getting a RIS/RAS setup for better cooling for my M4 upper, but the only thing I'd stick on it's accessory rails would probably be a vertical foregrip, and that's it. Well, and maybe a good 3-point sling.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 11:09:01 AM EDT
Why is it so weird to have a flashlight on a gun? Are we only supposed to use them in broad daylight?

What is wrong with vertical grips? Is there something about them that scares you? What possible use for a vertical fore-grip can you see for a LEO/GOVT team, but not for anybody else?

Whats the point of anything other than a flintlock musket?

Link Posted: 7/29/2003 11:17:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2003 11:19:24 AM EDT by mjohn3006]
Why does it matter? People like it, for looks or other reasons, so they get it.

I don't like Polka music, does that mean no one should listen to it because I don't like it?

You don't like lights and grips, don't get them. But don't question the reasons of others for no reason.

I am just getting my frist AR. Plain old 20" HBAR. This winter I want to make a carbine and trip the living heck out of it with lights grips, and other things. WHY? Not for function, just for looks so I can look all special at the range.

I know you said that you are not trying to flame people, but it comes across that way.
And I am not really trying to flame you, but it probably comes across that way.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 1:09:50 PM EDT
It's for the same reason people do the same type things to cars, trucks, and everything else they own. Several factors are at work here.

Some folks figure that it is a nice feature, or something of actual use to them.

Some folks are wannabes and just have to have the latest gadget the SF "operator" has (even though you see many of them just carrying plain-Jane AKs).

Some folks get into the same trap as putting a spoiler on a car that will never see an MPH over 65. They put it on there because it looks cool, even though it has no real-world use for them.

To some folks it's a status symbol. It's bragging rights to have more toys on their AR than someone else. We (guys at least) are all guilty of this with something in our lives at one time or another.

Some folks simply like to modify everything, and the AR is easy to modify. They will frequently have most of their guns modified in some form or another. I have a buddy who modifies EVERY gun he buys, even before he shoots it. He adds all sorts of things to shotguns, pistols, rifles, you name it. My brother can't leave any car he buys in stock form. He modifies all of them, and has done so for as long as he's owned cars. He does race, but he has a race car for that. People just get into it, and the AR system is easy to modify and the parts are available.

Some people just want to add that feature to their rifle to be "cool" or for "the look" and then justify it somehow of the above reasons (it has a use, the SEALs use it, I want a custom look, it's just a "signature", status, etc).

In the end it's just the way people are. It doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't have that much to do with anything other than human nature. The good thing is that as long as there is a market for all that "crap", then you'll be able to do the same.

Ross
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 11:14:35 AM EDT
Goddamn people get testy 'round here when you question the shit they own (or don't even own yet but wish they did).

Guys I don't think he was purposely being a dick, I think he was just trying to ask the question & maybe didn't phrase it right.

Mug, to answer your question...
I personally don't mount a light on a gun, but then I have a lightswitch in mybedroom that lights up what I would need it to at night. For me I would grab my 12ga and hit the switch. I have thought about getting a newer Glock so I could put the light on it, but I doubt I'd ever wind up spending the coin on the light.
I have a verticl foregrip for my rifle that I don't use (it came with the RAS/RIS in a package deal). I recently shot one with it though and liked it for cqb type shooting. I am just obsessed with weight when I comes to guns and don't think the added lbs are worth it.

Now, with all of that said, there are valid reasons for wanting lights & grips, and then there are the guys that just think it looks cool. For them, well it's their money, you and I can hang out and laugh at them some time.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 11:23:58 AM EDT
yeah your right, i phrased it wrong. im not against them. i geuss they would be good if you where hunting at night
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 11:29:09 AM EDT
Some people shoot practical matches and attend tactical courses with their AR's, which may require shooting in low light or dark, weak hand drills, transition to sidearm, etc.

Lots of stuff out there isn't going to see any use outside of a military/LEO arena, but some of it actually can make your life easier.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 11:41:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mudzilla:
yeah your right, i phrased it wrong. im not against them. i geuss they would be good if you where hunting at night



Depends on what you're huntin
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 2:15:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 2:41:43 PM EDT
I too can't understand why people have all that junk hanging off their AR's !!

(I only have a rail, light, laser and scope on the AR I use mostly.)
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 3:11:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2003 3:12:55 PM EDT by Ross]

Originally Posted By raf:
An easily removable light mounted on a firearm that is designated or even likely to be used for home and/or personal defense is not merely a good idea, but a necessity.
If it is of sufficient intensity, it can momentarily blind the possible target while the operator IDs same and makes the shoot/no shoot determination.
Detached, the light is useful for other things as well.
Some operators who are familiar with Murphy's Law have been known to mount two lights on their designated home defense rifle or shotgun.



Like I posted above:"Some folks are wannabes and just have to have the latest gadget the SF "operator" has (even though you see many of them just carrying plain-Jane AKs)." Just poking fun!

I just use a 4" revolver for home defense, so I can carry a flashlight in my other hand. If I was using a long gun, that would be different, and I'd probably figure out a flashlight thingy for it, even if it was just tape/hose clamps.

I have a much higher chance of a fire in my kitchen, than having to clear my house, "operator" style. I suppose that's why I have a fire exingusher as well

Ross
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 5:25:42 PM EDT
Zombies. That's why.

Seriously though, I think a light makes sense on a gun meant for home defense. Get a good one, it will blind your target, allowing you time before they react to make an I.D. of the target, so you don't shoot your wife or kids or something just trying to get a midnight snack.

The light switch is there, but you'll have to take your hand off your gun to do that eh...

Me, no light on my AR. Maybe when I get a home defense shotgun, someday, but I'm young and have good night vision :P
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 8:17:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ross:
I just use a 4" revolver for home defense, so I can carry a flashlight in my other hand. If I was using a long gun, that would be different, and I'd probably figure out a flashlight thingy for it, even if it was just tape/hose clamps.


Pistol in one hand, light in the other.

A speakerphone by the bed since you don't have a free hand to hold the phone while talking to the 911 operator, right?

Never any kids in the house so there's no need to worry about having to get them out of bed and carry them to a safer location, right?

You do all of your handgun practice firing one handed since you're planning to have the support hand holding a flashlight, right?

Just wondering.



I have a much higher chance of a fire in my kitchen,

Agreed. In the house and each car.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 8:55:52 PM EDT
[Strict Boltgunner/hunter mode]

What the heck Do'ya need one of dem Aye-Ar fifteeens Fore??"

[/strict bolt gunner/hunter mode]

Link Posted: 7/31/2003 2:08:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2003 2:31:50 AM EDT by Ross]

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:

Originally Posted By Ross:
I just use a 4" revolver for home defense, so I can carry a flashlight in my other hand. If I was using a long gun, that would be different, and I'd probably figure out a flashlight thingy for it, even if it was just tape/hose clamps.


Pistol in one hand, light in the other.

That would be the logical utilization.


A speakerphone by the bed since you don't have a free hand to hold the phone while talking to the 911 operator, right?

Nope, I would make the 911 call as appropriate. I would make the tactical decision and prioritize as to what was most important at the time. Just the same as I decide if driving with both hands is more important than using a cell phone, or eating a burger. If I'm actually engaging targets in the dark, calling 911 would be a lower priority on my list than identifying targets and pulling the trigger. I'd rather survive the gunfight to call, than worry about a phonecall and get shot. If I've already made the 911 call I could leave the phone there on the nightstand. They would be able to tape everything that went on just fine, because if it's gotten to the point that I've called the cops, I'm not going out wandering around. At that point I'm staying put until they get there. If there is no threat, then I could simply turn off the flashlight and use the phone (or drop the phone and use the flashlight). Or I could always use the light switch and turn on some lights. Simple, huh?


Never any kids in the house so there's no need to worry about having to get them out of bed and carry them to a safer location, right?

Nope, none. Again, this is my house not your's. My plan is for me and may not work for anyone else. Seems that using a hand held flashlight would be a tad safer than illuminating my kids with a light mounted on a gun. Since I have none living here, I suppose it doesn't matter.


You do all of your handgun practice firing one handed since you're planning to have the support hand holding a flashlight, right?
Not all of it, I practice doing plenty of other things, including sitting, in cars, etc. But I do practice with a flashlight, and I venture to say that's more than what many "operator wannabes" that have flashlights mounted on their guns do. If you don't practice with a light, then what would it matter if it's mounted to your gun or not?


Just wondering.

Hopefully I cleared up your questions. I guess you didn't get the idea of the smiley, or even the "Just poking fun".

My statement that I just use a 4" revolver is because that's what I use. Since I don't use a long gun and I don't have a flashlight mounted, then a handheld light is the way to go obviously. There are plenty of cops in the world that need to use a flashlight in one hand and a service pistol in the other. They can't yap on the radio at the same time, or heard civillians out of the way, but they prioritize their actions.

I guess you also missed the part where I said "If I was using a long gun...(i.e. if a long gun was what I planned to use, not that a long gun is not right for some folks, it's just not my choice for my situation)". And how I went on to agree that a mounted flashlight would be the way to go.

I live in a town that has had one cop killed in the line of duty in 20 years. It's not exactly like I'm living across the street from a crack house. My plan doesn't include me getting "geared up" in black BDUs, a face mask, body armour and web-gear along with an M-4 with all sorts of add ons and 210rds of ammo to investigate a noise. Oh well, my plan is just for me. If it doesn't get the Hoplophile stamp of approval, I'll try to survive anyway. Even if I don't have a mounted flashlight the bold type is a joke

I would venture to say that if you looked at home defense with a firearm, there are few times that a gun was used with a mounted flashlight. Somehow these people were able to still get that gun to work without all those add ons. Maybe it's the person and not the gadgets?



I have a much higher chance of a fire in my kitchen,


Agreed. In the house and each car.


Yeah, I forgot to mention the ones in the car and truck.

I think a flashlight IS a good idea on a long gun, as you don't have a free hand to use a handheld flashlight. I thought it was a cool idea back in the '70's when the "Omega Man" had one on his S&W 76. Talk about cutting edge! He had it dialed in before they invented the word "operator". See...joke!

Ross
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 8:09:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:

Originally Posted By Ross:
I just use a 4" revolver for home defense, so I can carry a flashlight in my other hand. If I was using a long gun, that would be different, and I'd probably figure out a flashlight thingy for it, even if it was just tape/hose clamps.


Pistol in one hand, light in the other.

A speakerphone by the bed since you don't have a free hand to hold the phone while talking to the 911 operator, right?

Never any kids in the house so there's no need to worry about having to get them out of bed and carry them to a safer location, right?

You do all of your handgun practice firing one handed since you're planning to have the support hand holding a flashlight, right?

Just wondering.



I have a much higher chance of a fire in my kitchen,

Agreed. In the house and each car.



Light on the rifle to ID the target.
VG for fast follow up.
Tritium front bead so I can see the sights.
Hands-free earplug for the Cel phone. Ear bud, so he can't hear the operator, cel phone because phone lines do get cut, and you can move if you have to.
Ear plug for the other ear. Guns are load. Guns fired in enclosed spaces are really really load.
Entry way type door knob and lock on solid bedroom door, because I intend to hunker down and wait for the pros.

Bushy AK brake because if God, Fortune, and Mr. Murphy are on his side, and I manage to miss, he'll at least wish he was dead.

That last part was a joke, but if you intend to keep a firearm for home defense, you should use the best tools for the job. You shouldn't let image, or perception get in the way of getting the job done.
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