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Posted: 6/9/2003 5:29:27 PM EDT
Im wondering, is the basic 1911 design stout enough to handle full auto fire? Supposing one was converted to full auto, would it survive? What would break first?


Please understand, im not asking for advice for how to do something illegal, or sugesting anyone else do something illegal. This is purely a technical question. So you don't need to tell me that i'm going to go to jail.

Ben, The Emu
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 6:01:57 PM EDT
It would catastrophically explode and kill everyone within a 20' radius.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 6:15:48 PM EDT
Or the slide would shoot off and imbed itself in your forehead.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 6:32:36 PM EDT
Nine out of ten voices in head told me to clean my guns today.

And the tenth said go shooting! LOL!!!
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 7:36:21 PM EDT
TheFNG, ZRH, M-Forgery;
Thanks for nothing.

Ben, The Emu
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 7:54:31 PM EDT
I think Val Kilmer carried one in Heat?

ED
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 8:23:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M1-Ed:
I think Val Kilmer carried one in Heat?

ED



Fer Crist sake! No one here is willing to give a serious answer?

How about this question: What is the difference between a regular Barreta 92 and a 93R(machine pistol)? Is it just the trigger, sear and related components? Is the rest of the gun stronger/beefier? If so, where?

AGAIN: Please understand, im not asking for advice for how to do something illegal, or sugesting anyone else do something illegal. This is purely a technical question. So you don't need to tell me that i'm going to go to jail.

Should i assume that all you jack asses that gave smart ass answers don't know?

Ben, The(seriously)Emu
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 8:32:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 8:39:33 PM EDT
Same question for Glock: G17 vs G18(machine pistol)

Is it just the trigger, sear and related components?
Is the rest of the gun stronger/beefier?
If so, where?

Im trying to understand the machanics of machine guns and learn more stuff. Not do anything that would send me to jail.

Yea, yea, the GCA of 1934, prohibits manufacturing various stuff with out the blessing of the Gov. There is a difference between knowing how something works and using that knowlege to commit a crime.

Ben, The Emu
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:20:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Emu:
Fer Crist sake! No one here is willing to give a serious answer?
Should i assume that all you jack asses that gave smart ass answers don't know?

Ben, The(seriously)Emu



The answer to your original question is yes. The 1911 is strong enough to take full auto fire. How do I know? Well, let's just say that used to know a few very, uh...creative, machinists. The 1911 is well capable of full-auto fire, handling it is a different matter entirely.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:56:42 PM EDT
George Patton's Army career almost came to a screeching halt when as a young Ell Tee he performed a trigger job on hi 1911. He did it so light it went full auto & emptied out the entire mag.

True story.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:07:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 11:09:08 PM EDT by The_Emu]

Originally Posted By RobarSR60:

Originally Posted By The_Emu:
Fer Crist sake! No one here is willing to give a serious answer?
Should i assume that all you jack asses that gave smart ass answers don't know?

Ben, The(seriously)Emu



The answer to your original question is yes. The 1911 is strong enough to take full auto fire. How do I know? Well, let's just say that used to know a few very, uh...creative, machinists. The 1911 is well capable of full-auto fire, handling it is a different matter entirely.



Robar, thanks. i thought so. JM browning was one smart guy!

So did your "creative machinist" friends change anything besides the trigger/sear parts? What was the rate of fire? Anything else technically interesting you can share?

Ben, The(FullOfQuestions)Emu
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 12:57:28 AM EDT
The Spanish built a 9mm & a 9x21mm machine pistol based on the 1911. It was difficult to control as most are, but none the less effective and successful. I shot a WWII survivor at a gunshop in Phoenix. Cruder than most 1911s, but fun none the less. It needed a fore-grip and a bigger magazine IMHO.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 1:40:00 AM EDT
Long Mountain Outfitters had a select 1911 for sale a while ago.

and didnt SAR do a article on them last year?
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 2:07:00 AM EDT
There's one in the FBI museum that was home cnverted by Machinegun Kelly or somebody or other.

The Spanish pistol was the Star model "M". It was basically a select-fire model "A". There was a switch on the right side to select the mode. ROF was around 800RPM. It was .45 ACP, and other calibers.

I would think controllability would be questionable, but you could set it up with a comp, detachable shoulder stock, etc and it'd be interesting to shoot to say the least.

Ross


Link Posted: 6/10/2003 7:23:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2003 10:51:08 AM EDT by RobarSR60]

Originally Posted By The_Emu:
Robar, thanks. i thought so. JM browning was one smart guy!

So did your "creative machinist" friends change anything besides the trigger/sear parts? What was the rate of fire? Anything else technically interesting you can share?

Ben, The(FullOfQuestions)Emu



Can't give you any more info than what I already have Emu. This took place 15+ years ago, and I've gone to sleep since then. These guys were all x Vietnam vets, working in a shop in rural South Jersey. They'd do a bunch of stuff, like make their own claymore mines (and detonate them). It was a good group of guys, I just didn't pay as close attention to them as I should have.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 9:32:26 AM EDT
Interesting stuff guys. So now i know that it has been done. I'm still interested in how. Does anyone know where to find technical info for these kind of guns?

Ben, The Emu
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 10:04:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Emu:
TheFNG, ZRH, M-Forgery;
Thanks for nothing.

Ben, The Emu



No Problem
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 7:50:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2003 7:51:31 PM EDT by 455SD]
Here is a pic and a link to the guns John Dillinger supposedly used. The is a 1911 in .38 super that is supposedly full-auto.

www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/web/dillinger.htm

Link Posted: 6/10/2003 8:42:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Emu:

Originally Posted By M1-Ed:
I think Val Kilmer carried one in Heat?

ED



Fer Crist sake! No one here is willing to give a serious answer?

How about this question: What is the difference between a regular Barreta 92 and a 93R(machine pistol)? Is it just the trigger, sear and related components? Is the rest of the gun stronger/beefier? If so, where?

Ben, The(seriously)Emu



Sorry Emu,

As for the 93R/92, Don't have a clue. Always wondered what I needed to turn my 92FS into a 93R?

Also as for making things full-auto. My dad said that they used to make Garands FA in WWII all the time. Just file down the sear a little. He said some guys liked it and some didn't.

Again sorry for the Heat remark.

ED
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 9:24:26 PM EDT
a 1911 can handle full auto and not blow up, i changed the grip safety to a different type, and added a skelotonised hammer, everything looked and functioned fine, i went to the range to try her out, i unloaded a whole mag with one pull of the trigger, when the slide came back and cocked the hammer it did not catch the sear surface, the trigger hit the beavertail safety and bounced off before engaging the sear, it only happened when powered by a live round, but a function test with an unloaded gun worked fine, i saw that the hammer was tagging the safety, and i took off the burr, all is great now, but a full auto 45 will really rock your world, especially when you are not expecting it
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 10:31:45 PM EDT
More interesting stuff. We really need to repeal the '34 GCA. I have all these ideas in my head that are doomed to remain pencil sketches in a note book. the one that promped all the questions ive been asking is a machine pistol that has the magazine in front of the trigger gaurd, but has the ergonomics and basic operating principle of the 1911. Mag release is like on a AR. It looks good on paper, i guess it will have to stay there...

I'll have to find a scanner and share it with you fine folks.

Ben, The(Tinkering)Emu

Link Posted: 6/11/2003 5:53:05 AM EDT
At one time I had an MPG of an Israeli BUL 1911 pattern gun that had been converted to full auto. I'll see if I can find it, it was pretty cool.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 8:02:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
a 1911 can handle full auto and not blow up, i changed the grip safety to a different type, and added a skelotonised hammer, everything looked and functioned fine, i went to the range to try her out, i unloaded a whole mag with one pull of the trigger, when the slide came back and cocked the hammer it did not catch the sear surface, the trigger hit the beavertail safety and bounced off before engaging the sear, it only happened when powered by a live round, but a function test with an unloaded gun worked fine, i saw that the hammer was tagging the safety, and i took off the burr, all is great now, but a full auto 45 will really rock your world, especially when you are not expecting it



A 1911 can be bump fired as well. So, I'm sure it can handle full auto. What's the point with such limited ammunition capacity? It would be almost as useless as a F.A. M-1. Maybe a Para Ord. P14 with an extended Mag. would be better suited.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 2:30:05 PM EDT
There's a stocked class 3 1911 in that Dillon mg video. As far as the Dillinger guns, I read somewhere that a gunsmith in Kansas specialized in them, Dillinger and Floyd being notable customers.
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