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Posted: 2/22/2003 6:17:53 PM EDT
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I'm a beta tester for a fps UT mod called Infiltration. I'm not one of the developers; the following has been developed (in fact we're about to go public with our latest version, Infiltration 2.9) but I have some questions and want to double check that we've done it right. Can an M16 expert help with this? I own an AR15 but that doesn't help me: Is it possible to carefully squeeze off one round with the M16 select fire on burst? If it's possible, is it easy and reproducible? Also, someone knowledgable about the MP5: I need detailed descriptions of the magazine change sequence in these situations: 1. Bolt closed, no round in chamber, change full magazine to full magazine. 2. Bolt closed, round in chamber, change full or partially spent magazine with full magazine. 3. Bolt locked back after last round spent, change empty magazine to full magazine. Reference to an online manual for the MP5 would be helpful. I've searched and searched the net for an online manual and/or authoritative descriptions of the reload procedure and I've come up empty. If you're interested in military FPSs, you are welcome to check out Infiltration. It's unique in that there are no silly crosshairs (you use the actual iron sights) and there is a free-aim zone taking up a fair percentage of the middle of the screen (so you can't get around the lack of a crosshair by pasting a dot at center-screen). The new 2.9 version will feature objective oriented missions for the first time. This isn't a commercial solicitation, the mod is free to download, and will continue to be: http://infiltration.sentrystudios.net/ |
| Cant really help you, but: the MP5 doesnt have a bolt locking feature for an empty mag. In 9mmm at least. You can manually lock the bolt back, but it wont do it automatically after the last shot is fired. This feature is present on MP5s in .40 and 10mm, the UMP, and the G36 series. |
Yes it is possible, but not realistically probable. When shooting under combat conditions most people lose fine motor skills to some degree. Adrenaline is our friend.
Assuming you meant change from an empty to a full mag: (Optional first step: Pull and lock the charging handle to the rear for ease of loading.) 1. Left hand forward and grip the mag next to the well. 2. Simultaneously thumb the mag latch forward. The mag latch is located on the bottom side of the weap just after the mag well. 3. Remove mag. 4. Replace with fresh mag seating firmly. 5. Sharply draw back on the charging handle and release. 6. Fire.
1. Grab mag next to mag well with left hand. 2. Simultaneously thumb forward the mag release latch. 3. Remove Mag. 4. Replace with full mag. 5. Fire.
The bolt doesn't automatically lock back. You have to do it yourserf
If you can't find it here you can't find it: www.HKPRO.com |
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Thanks. The version in Inf is the MP5/40A3 http://infiltration.sentrystudios.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Diner_Wrapper&file=index&req=ShowFile&file_wrap=html/armory/mp5-40.html#mid So the bolt does lock open when the last round is fired. Two specific question that are probably the most important ones I have regarding the MP5: Do you close the bolt the same way, using the same bolt catch release lever, in all 3 of the circumstances I listed in the initial post? And, Is it possible to load magazine capacity + 1 with the MP5? Someone told me you must open the bolt and empty the chamber before you can change magazines. Is that true? (this would impact on situations #1 and #2 in my first post). Thanks! |
I remember that game (played one of your earlier versions)... You guys have been around quite a while, IIRC... |
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Thanks Soylent Green. My previous post was in response to the post above yours, hadn't seen yours yet. << 1. Bolt closed, no round in chamber, change << full magazine to full magazine. <Assuming you meant change from an empty to a <full mag: Actually, no - I meant from full to full. I realize there would rarely be a reason to do that IRL, but when you're dealing with a game where people can do it if they WANT to, you still want it to be technically correct, because if it's possible and we don't have it right, someone will do it, notice that it's not exactly as it would be IRL, and lay the mistake at our feet in triumph. This specific situation would not come up in the game as the beta now exists (you start out with a round chambered, as the game begins close to the engagement), but the answer to #1 helps me with #s 2 and 3. Given that it's changing from a full mag to another full mag, one would expect the procedure to be the same for #1 as with #2 -- except for the fact that someone told me you have to eject a chambered round before you can change magazines. I can't imagine why that would be required, but that's one of the reasons I'm asking these questions. Something wasn't adding up. Your answer to my #2 situation suggests that one does NOT need to eject a chambered round prior to changing magazines. Is that right? <<3. Bolt locked back after last round spent, <<change empty magazine to full magazine. <The bolt doesn't automatically lock back. You <have to do it yourself I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that this is the .40 cal version, not the 9mm (see my last post). Is it not correct that the .40 does have a bolt catch like the 10mm version does? If so, how would the reload sequence go? No need to pull back the charging handle, right? And after the full mag goes in, you press the bolt catch release to let the bolt travel home and chamber the first round, rather than using the charging handle, right? < If you can't find it here you can't find it: www.HKPRO.com Thanks! I'll check that site out. |
a)Correct. If a round is in the chamber you don't have to cycle the gun. Although according to folks at HKPRO, ITD suggests you do it anyway to standardize mag changes. You lose a round sometimes, but you'll never accidently try to shoot somebody with an empty gun with a loaded mag. b)Oops, I'm wrong. The MP5/40 does have a bolt hold. www.hkpro.com/MP5-10.htm There's a topic at HKPro somewhere that describes the HK International Training Division standard mag change procedure. I'll see if I can find it for you. |
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< according to folks at HKPRO, ITD suggests you < do it anyway to standardize mag changes. That makes sense if you're on the range. I don't think anyone would do that in an actual combat situation would they? Or would they? Does that mean that the ITD "recommended" way to accomplish situation #2 in my first post is to actually use the charging handle? Good to know it's not mechanically NECESSARY to eject the round with magazine changes, that was really the key to my question. < topic at HKPro somewhere that describes the <HK International Training Division standard <mag change procedure. I'll see if I can find <it for you. Thanks, that would help. I still have a question regarding the order of the steps when changing out a magazine that's not yet empty, and there's a round in the chamber. And also: Doesn't pulling back the charging handle eject a round that's in the chamber? And: In what way does using the charging handle make the reload easier? |
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boards.hkpro.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=000151&p= There you go. It's for the MP5 |
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Awesome, Spade. That answers all my questions. I especially appreciate the details on why you always lock the bolt back with a tactical reload. Didn't make sense before, now I understand it IS a mechanical problem (unreliability of chambering a round if you don't). Our dev team got the MP5 exactly right, every detail, both mag-empty and tactical reloads. :-) |
Aways, always, always train the way you fight. It has to do with operant conditioning.
You are not putting pressure on the mag via the rounds in the mag shoving against the bottom of the bolt. If you try to insert a full mag with the bolt closed it may not seat. Mags that fall out are a bad thing. Maybe you should add that bit of realism to the game. Pulling back the charging handle will eject a chambered round, but what is one bullet when doing a tactical reload under stress? |
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So actually, the following would not be advisable with a tactical reload; if you did it this way you would have a round to fire left in the chamber, but the next cycle might come up empty if the magazine didn't seat correctly (due to skipping the bolt retract/lock step): -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. Bolt closed, round in chamber, change full or partially spent magazine with full magazine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Grab mag next to mag well with left hand. 2. Simultaneously thumb forward the mag release latch. 3. Remove Mag. 4. Replace with full mag. 5. Fire. |
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SG: It all makes sense now. Glad we had this exchange. < Maybe you should add that bit of realism to the game. Pulling back the charging handle will eject a chambered round, but what is one bullet when doing a tactical reload under stress? Already there. Every detail. You can even see the round flying out when the animation's hand pulls back the bolt with the tactical reload. Then the first magazine is removed, a new one inserted and the left hand strikes the bolt handle just as the manual recommends, throwing the bolt closed. Ready to fire. With an empty-magazine reload, where the bolt is locked back after the last round, the animation is different -- no manual bolt retraction -- the magazine is removed, a new one is inserted, and you then hear the bolt slam home (you can't see, in the first person, far enough proximally to see the lock release get pressed) and you're ready to fire. I knew our development team was good, now all I can do is genuflect. :-) Thanks guys! TheViper |
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Interesting thread. (Considering I have Infiltration installed..) Regarding the-16, while never firing it under fire, one can learn to perform two, or more round bursts with practice. The one I am familiar with is an early SP-1 fitted with M-16 fire control parts. Granted, a variant would perform diffrently. Example? I have a friend with a heavily modified Colt. Disregarding the M-4 upper, it has been fitted with the hydraulic buffer from the HMG upper. Cyclic rate in my estimation is in the range of 500 rounds per minute. A single shot in f/a is VERY easy here.. Viper- If you have ANY say so in the development of this game, I very much would like to see the inclusion of the M-249.. Meplat- |
Correct. It is always preferable to load with the bolt locked to the rear and to do the patented HK slap. |
The M-249 will be in v2.9. http://infiltration.sentrystudios.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Diner_Wrapper&file=index&req=ShowFile&file_wrap=html/armory/minimi.html#mid Oops! I edited a mistake out of here. Forget what I said about the M-249 reloading, it must have been too late at night, was thinking of something else. The M-249 reload animation is very well done. Takes a little time, just like IRL. |
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