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Posted: 11/22/2002 3:09:05 PM EDT
I had posted on here to sell my Oly Plinker d/t the fact that I wanted to buy an M4 flat top. Had it sold. I was out shooting it today and the damn thing literally fell apart in my hands just milliseconds before I was going to pull the trigger. My friend 82ndAbn is going to post the pics on this thread for me.

The Armory ( www.The-armory.com ) in Va Beach where I purchased the weapon is reluctant to issue a refund even though Oly said they would reimburse them. So I called Oly and told them that the reason I was selling it in the first place was to buy an M4 flat top. Originally they offered to rebuild the plinker with forged receivers. Then I stated that I would try another Oly product but it would have to be the M4 if they would swap even. Curt Blazer from Oly said they might be able to credit the amt that I paid for the Plinker towards an M4 but would have to check with his boss Thomas A. Spithaler.

We will see how Oly responds to this near tragedy. I could have been blinded or even worse, killed. I can either sing the praises of Olympic arms and tell how well they took care of me or not.

Thomas A. Spithaler email is webmaster@olyarms.com

Curt Blazier email is sales@olyarms.com

I'm just glad no one got hurt and I didn't sell a defective gun to an unsuspecting person.

One thing for sure, I will never ever buy a gun that is cast and not forged.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 3:10:27 PM EDT


Link Posted: 11/22/2002 3:17:30 PM EDT
I guess that is THE difference between a casting and a forging. Should post these pictures each time some one asks about cast vs. forged recievers.

OSA
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 3:18:58 PM EDT
I'm glad everyone is OK.

I understand you being upset but I think you were a bit premature in posting the names and E-mails addresses of the people that are trying to help you.

Hope it turns out well.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 3:24:59 PM EDT
On the one hand, I guess you're lucky it broke on you and not the guy you sold it to.

On the other hand, what the heck were you doing shooting it after you had it sold?

On the other other hand, at least you still have a face and both arms.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 3:29:01 PM EDT
I would venture that with hundreds of thousands of cast receivers sold over the years that there is bound to be a bad batch from time to time. Certainly this can be minimized with certain forging processes, but the fact is the majority will give decades of toruble free service. the true test will be how they treat you on the replacement. I would however venture that they are really only obligated to replace what was broken or return your money. That little bit extra might be ok compensation for the inconvenience though, and I'm sure that if they are at fault they would treat it that way. Let us know what happens.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 3:30:58 PM EDT
Scares the Crap out of me. You are lucky. Give them a chance to make good.
MM419
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 4:20:38 PM EDT
Yikes!
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 4:52:22 PM EDT
Looks like stress cracking due to impact of the bolt. Probably porus (bad) casting. Oly should make good, however, you will probably have to send it back to the shop. Give em a call, I've found them to be quite helpful.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 4:52:32 PM EDT
Well it sure is broke, but I don't think it was ever dangerous. If mine I would expect Oly to repair/refund/apply my costs to a different product and nothing more.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:08:34 PM EDT
Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to use an item after you have sold it to someone; but in this case, in making sure it was in usable condition (<--- I'd stick with this story, if I were you), you prevented a possible injury to the buyer, not to mention the resulting legal ramifications that might have followed.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:08:37 PM EDT
if he had pulled the trigger, he would have suffered a major explosion at the breech and could have gotten casing shards in the eyes blinding him. Not to mention his hand would be holding on to that area, his wrist would have gotten hurt too. luckilly the barrell simply fell off to the ground, in the pics I would have left the round in the chamber for the shock factor.

Oly is the new Hesse, dont hope, Sue.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:19:31 PM EDT
Wow
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:21:58 PM EDT
Hole
E
Shit.

That ain't right.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:24:38 PM EDT
For those of you who think I should have not been using the weapon after I sold it until I have cash in the bank its still MY weapon. I'm sure those of you that have sold things on this site before know, some people will say they are going to buy from you but never send the money. Now I'm not saying this is the case with the person that agreed to purchase the weapon. But until the money changes hands neither does the weapon.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:27:51 PM EDT
Something is not right here,any chance somebody over torqued the barrel?

Glad you did not squeeze that round off.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:33:22 PM EDT
Er, Oly made cast Lowers, not uppers?
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:37:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2002 5:44:09 PM EDT by eswanson]

Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil:
Er, Oly made cast Lowers, not uppers?



Good point. Oly probably casts their own uppers, though. I'm off to check their site.

Edited - can't tell from the Oly site. They make their own barrels, but may buy the upper receiver castings elsewhere.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:42:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By speedwayrn:
For those of you who think I should have not been using the weapon after I sold it until I have cash in the bank its still MY weapon. I'm sure those of you that have sold things on this site before know, some people will say they are going to buy from you but never send the money. Now I'm not saying this is the case with the person that agreed to purchase the weapon. But until the money changes hands neither does the weapon.

Good point. Just glad it decided to go tits-up before you fired it.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:46:44 PM EDT
The barrel is held in with a C clip
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:48:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 5:53:29 PM EDT
JB WELD TO THE RESCUE!!!

Not...





Gee, I thought the takedown pin was supposed to be a little farther back...

CJ
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 6:13:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil:
Er, Oly made cast Lowers, not uppers?



Gee Professor they market them as cast, and if you look at the grain structure and the surface finish you will notice it is consistent with a casting.

Please advise.


Link Posted: 11/22/2002 6:15:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:
Oly is the new Hesse, dont hope, Sue.



gaspain, you are an idiot.

Oly has been around for a long time, and because of that, they have people who both love and hate them.

Your idea of "sue them" is a liberal mindset.
No one was hurt, and as long as they replace the upper (which is ALL they are responsible for), then the situation is resolved.
Firearms are a dangerous hobby, and this is one of many different possible problems that one can encounter when shooting.
Look at all the Glock .40 problems, and no one ever mentioned the word "sue".

You are as troll, and I really wonder if you don't hail from DU.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 6:22:43 PM EDT
From the Oly web page.


The ".223 Plinker"




$599.00 MSRP
The .223 Plinker, a new rifle in our product line this year, is a quality, inexpensive AR for the consumer who doesn't want to spend full price for a match grade rifle, or for a rifle that is over priced just because of its name.

This .223 caliber 16" barreled carbine has a heavy barrel (.980" under the handguard) made of 4140 chromemoly steel, with a 1x9 twist. It is assembled on a set of Olympic Arms manufactured cast lower and upper receivers, and has A1 style sights. For a 16" barreled carbine, A2 sights adjustable for ranges out to 800 meters just doesn't make a great deal of sense anyway.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 6:51:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 6:54:25 PM EDT
What Glock .40 problems?
Oh, you mean the ones where people load up some stupid hot rounds and it goes KA-BOOM or the ones where someone uses range reloads and it goes KA-BOOM.




Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Look at all the Glock .40 problems,

Link Posted: 11/22/2002 8:40:48 PM EDT
I hope that this incident refreshes everybody's memory about one truism:

ALWAYS WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!

Having had a 16d nail stuck in my left eye, I can vouch for the fact that getting your eyes hurt SUCKS!!!!!!
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 8:46:31 PM EDT
from looking at those pictures a few things didnt seem right. Why was it a smooth cut around the rigle and jagged in one spot? it appears to have possibly cracked then pulled apart the rest of the way.
Also WIth the bolt in the rifle there is no way it would break in that spot without the bolt having to break also. The bolt would have been locked into the chamber and prevented this from happening. As much as i like to it just fell apart it appears some of the details were left out of this story
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 9:03:23 PM EDT
The bolt is very clean and unlubed. Does Oly Cast on site or do they buy the castings from elsewhere?
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 9:10:26 PM EDT

I hope that this incident refreshes everybody's memory about one truism:

ALWAYS WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!

Having had a 16d nail stuck in my left eye, I can vouch for the fact that getting your eyes hurt SUCKS!!!!!! Hoplite




ANOTHER TRUISM: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!


Not bashing Olympic, per se. One of my three AR's is built on an Oly lower (forged) and it's essentially as good as my Bushmaster. Oly often makes a fine products.

But to my mind, cast upper receivers are a BAD idea. Lowers don't take much stress during firing, but uppers have to handle a lot, relatively speaking. You want strength there, and I wouldn't trust a cast aluminum upper receiver.

Has anyone EVER seen a similar failure with a FORGED upper?

I haven't. I've never even seen that particular failure on rifles that had exploded due to serious ammunition related problems such as out-of-battery firings, obstructed bores, case failures, and overcharged cases.

Sorry, a cast upper is a good idea on paper but I don't think it qualifies in practice.

CJ


Link Posted: 11/22/2002 9:18:44 PM EDT

it appears some of the details were left out of this story

Why is it whenever someone posts about a problem with an Oly, people come out of the wood-work to bash the poster? It's bad enough having trouble with a gun without having people here flame you for it.z
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 9:23:36 PM EDT
This is certainly one of the more interesting AR failures I have seen.

I got off easy too. On my Oly preban I have only magaged to break; the forward assist, gas rings, bolt cam pin, magazine catch, & 2 bolt releases so far. It certainly is exciting to get the rifle out of the safe and wonder what part will break during this range trip...

Repeat after me. You get what you pay for...you get what you pay for...you get what you pay for...
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 9:27:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
from looking at those pictures a few things didnt seem right. Why was it a smooth cut around the rigle and jagged in one spot? it appears to have possibly cracked then pulled apart the rest of the way.
Also WIth the bolt in the rifle there is no way it would break in that spot without the bolt having to break also. The bolt would have been locked into the chamber and prevented this from happening. As much as i like to it just fell apart it appears some of the details were left out of this story



Excuse me but are saying that I am telling anything less than the truth?

Yes it probably started as a crack. And no the bolt is not broken and didn't prevent a danm thing. If you knew your weapons you would know that normally the bolt would not extend out that far. 82ndAbn works with me and can vouch for my heritage and my character.

Up to this point the weapon has been very accurate and I have even posted on this site how well I liked the gun.

I personally don't care if you believe me, however Olympic Arms does. So does my gun smith after inspecting the weapon in person.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 9:28:33 PM EDT
Just glad you are ok man. That is SO not cool.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 9:37:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:
if he had pulled the trigger, he would have suffered a major explosion at the breech and could have gotten casing shards in the eyes blinding him. Not to mention his hand would be holding on to that area, his wrist would have gotten hurt too. luckilly the barrell simply fell off to the ground, in the pics I would have left the round in the chamber for the shock factor.

Oly is the new Hesse, dont hope, Sue.



Quality eye protection - EVERY TIME you pull the trigger
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 9:42:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By --BATMAN--:
Just glad you are ok man. That is SO not cool.



Hey, thanks Batman.

My gun smith was amazed. In 20 years he as never heard or seen anything like this. He has built may ARs with cast Olympic recievers. I had to drive over to his house to show him. He could not believe what I was explaining over the phone.

Curt at Olympic has been very very nice and helpful so far. I could have been dead with a rich family or blind and rich. I'm grateful that I am neither.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 9:48:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By speedwayrn:

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
from looking at those pictures a few things didnt seem right. Why was it a smooth cut around the rigle and jagged in one spot? it appears to have possibly cracked then pulled apart the rest of the way.
Also WIth the bolt in the rifle there is no way it would break in that spot without the bolt having to break also. The bolt would have been locked into the chamber and prevented this from happening. As much as i like to it just fell apart it appears some of the details were left out of this story



Excuse me but are saying that I am telling anything less than the truth?

Yes it probably started as a crack. And no the bolt is not broken and didn't prevent a danm thing. If you knew your weapons you would know that normally the bolt would not extend out that far. 82ndAbn works with me and can vouch for my heritage and my character.




The bolt is supposed to go inside the star chamber and lock. If it doesnt extend that far then something was wrong with it and it couldve blwon up because the bolt was too far back making additional headspace.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:02:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By speedwayrn:

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
from looking at those pictures a few things didnt seem right. Why was it a smooth cut around the rigle and jagged in one spot? it appears to have possibly cracked then pulled apart the rest of the way.
Also WIth the bolt in the rifle there is no way it would break in that spot without the bolt having to break also. The bolt would have been locked into the chamber and prevented this from happening. As much as i like to it just fell apart it appears some of the details were left out of this story



Excuse me but are saying that I am telling anything less than the truth?

Yes it probably started as a crack. And no the bolt is not broken and didn't prevent a danm thing. If you knew your weapons you would know that normally the bolt would not extend out that far. 82ndAbn works with me and can vouch for my heritage and my character.

Up to this point the weapon has been very accurate and I have even posted on this site how well I liked the gun.

I personally don't care if you believe me, however Olympic Arms does. So does my gun smith after inspecting the weapon in person.



Also, im not caling you or 82ndAbn a liar just saying you may have left out something from your history with this rifle that couldve caused this.
And as to this crack you mentioned, are you just assuming this or did you physically see one?
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:06:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:08:27 PM EDT
I guess I am going to have to change my sig. line to;

"I was just shooting it, and it broke in two in my hands!"
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:10:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:15:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stokes:
The "C" clip only holds in the weld spring and the delta ring. The barrel nut holds the barrel to the receiver.
I doubt this was a dangerous situation. If the bolt was far enough forward to fire, it would have been contained in the barrel.
This just looks like a bad casting that let go. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't know how long you've owned the rifle, but you might be eligable for the "satisfaction" guarentee, which covers the whole rifle, not just fixing it. Either way, I'd be really surprised if Oly didn't end this with your complete satisfaction.



I purchased 9/02 and have fired approx 600 rds. I am out of the satisfaction part.

I too hope I will be telling ya'll how well Olympic Arms took care of the situation. One thing for sure, I will post here good, bad, or neutral.

The couple of hundred dollars "retail" between this weapon and the weapon I intended to purchase would be the best advertising Olympic Arms could do.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:24:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplite:

Originally Posted By speedwayrn:

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
from looking at those pictures a few things didnt seem right. Why was it a smooth cut around the rigle and jagged in one spot? it appears to have possibly cracked then pulled apart the rest of the way.
Also WIth the bolt in the rifle there is no way it would break in that spot without the bolt having to break also. The bolt would have been locked into the chamber and prevented this from happening. As much as i like to it just fell apart it appears some of the details were left out of this story



Excuse me but are saying that I am telling anything less than the truth?

Yes it probably started as a crack. And no the bolt is not broken and didn't prevent a danm thing. If you knew your weapons you would know that normally the bolt would not extend out that far. 82ndAbn works with me and can vouch for my heritage and my character.

Up to this point the weapon has been very accurate and I have even posted on this site how well I liked the gun.

I personally don't care if you believe me, however Olympic Arms does. So does my gun smith after inspecting the weapon in person.



Also, im not caling you or 82ndAbn a liar just saying you may have left out something from your history with this rifle that couldve caused this.
And as to this crack you mentioned, are you just assuming this or did you physically see one?



If I had seen a crack I certainly would not have fired the weapon. Curt at Olympic is the one that first mentioned the possibility of the casting having a hairline crack.

No I have left nothing out. I do not use this weapon to break down doors. Break my falls, low crawl or anything other than plink. Even if I hadn't cleaned the weapon, which I have several times this is not acceptable and I have no idea why you are so adamantly defending this particular cast P.O.S. I'm sure hundreds of thousands of these cast recievers have never had any problems. However this one obviously did.

Do you enjoy flaming the posters here on this site?
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:46:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By speedwayrn:

Originally Posted By Hoplite:

Originally Posted By speedwayrn:

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
from looking at those pictures a few things didnt seem right. Why was it a smooth cut around the rigle and jagged in one spot? it appears to have possibly cracked then pulled apart the rest of the way.
Also WIth the bolt in the rifle there is no way it would break in that spot without the bolt having to break also. The bolt would have been locked into the chamber and prevented this from happening. As much as i like to it just fell apart it appears some of the details were left out of this story



Excuse me but are saying that I am telling anything less than the truth?

Yes it probably started as a crack. And no the bolt is not broken and didn't prevent a danm thing. If you knew your weapons you would know that normally the bolt would not extend out that far. 82ndAbn works with me and can vouch for my heritage and my character.

Up to this point the weapon has been very accurate and I have even posted on this site how well I liked the gun.

I personally don't care if you believe me, however Olympic Arms does. So does my gun smith after inspecting the weapon in person.



Also, im not caling you or 82ndAbn a liar just saying you may have left out something from your history with this rifle that couldve caused this.
And as to this crack you mentioned, are you just assuming this or did you physically see one?



If I had seen a crack I certainly would not have fired the weapon. Curt at Olympic is the one that first mentioned the possibility of the casting having a hairline crack.

No I have left nothing out. I do not use this weapon to break down doors. Break my falls, low crawl or anything other than plink. Even if I hadn't cleaned the weapon, which I have several times this is not acceptable and I have no idea why you are so adamantly defending this particular cast P.O.S. I'm sure hundreds of thousands of these cast recievers have never had any problems. However this one obviously did.

Do you enjoy flaming the posters here on this site?


I had no intention of flaming you here, how you took it out of proportion shows you are a bit high strung and could use a shot or two wild turkey to calm the nerves.
When you posted this thread what did you expect to happen? Did you figure that you would get 50 replies saying, "wow that sucks", "oly is a POS", "someone needs to pay for this" ? Someone had to disagree with you eventually and it turned out to be me. Not everyone will agree with you and that is for the better. What would this board be with a bunch of yes men responding to every thread?
And again your comment about me enjoying flaming people; I do not enjoy flaming people nor did I intend it to be a "flame". All I did was post some comments because something about this situation didnt seem "right". On top of my flame you counter flamed me so you must enjoy it.
Also, posting the names of everyone you could think of regarding this rifle and flaming them was very unprofessional since your rifle was going to be repaired/replaced by OLY. Maybe you enjoy flaming people and are using me to feed your fire.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 11:03:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplite:

Originally Posted By speedwayrn:

Originally Posted By Hoplite:

Originally Posted By speedwayrn:

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
from looking at those pictures a few things didnt seem right. Why was it a smooth cut around the rigle and jagged in one spot? it appears to have possibly cracked then pulled apart the rest of the way.
Also WIth the bolt in the rifle there is no way it would break in that spot without the bolt having to break also. The bolt would have been locked into the chamber and prevented this from happening. As much as i like to it just fell apart it appears some of the details were left out of this story



Excuse me but are saying that I am telling anything less than the truth?

Yes it probably started as a crack. And no the bolt is not broken and didn't prevent a danm thing. If you knew your weapons you would know that normally the bolt would not extend out that far. 82ndAbn works with me and can vouch for my heritage and my character.

Up to this point the weapon has been very accurate and I have even posted on this site how well I liked the gun.

I personally don't care if you believe me, however Olympic Arms does. So does my gun smith after inspecting the weapon in person.



Also, im not caling you or 82ndAbn a liar just saying you may have left out something from your history with this rifle that couldve caused this.
And as to this crack you mentioned, are you just assuming this or did you physically see one?



If I had seen a crack I certainly would not have fired the weapon. Curt at Olympic is the one that first mentioned the possibility of the casting having a hairline crack.

No I have left nothing out. I do not use this weapon to break down doors. Break my falls, low crawl or anything other than plink. Even if I hadn't cleaned the weapon, which I have several times this is not acceptable and I have no idea why you are so adamantly defending this particular cast P.O.S. I'm sure hundreds of thousands of these cast recievers have never had any problems. However this one obviously did.

Do you enjoy flaming the posters here on this site?


I had no intention of flaming you here, how you took it out of proportion shows you are a bit high strung and could use a shot or two wild turkey to calm the nerves.
When you posted this thread what did you expect to happen? Did you figure that you would get 50 replies saying, "wow that sucks", "oly is a POS", "someone needs to pay for this" ? Someone had to disagree with you eventually and it turned out to be me. Not everyone will agree with you and that is for the better. What would this board be with a bunch of yes men responding to every thread?
And again your comment about me enjoying flaming people; I do not enjoy flaming people nor did I intend it to be a "flame". All I did was post some comments because something about this situation didnt seem "right". On top of my flame you counter flamed me so you must enjoy it.
Also, posting the names of everyone you could think of regarding this rifle and flaming them was very unprofessional since your rifle was going to be repaired/replaced by OLY. Maybe you enjoy flaming people and are using me to feed your fire.



Sorry but I have simply presented the facts. I have not flamed Oly or any reps of Oly.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 11:17:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zoom:

it appears some of the details were left out of this story

Why is it whenever someone posts about a problem with an Oly, people come out of the wood-work to bash the poster? It's bad enough having trouble with a gun without having people here flame you for it.z



Doyou expect no one to stand up and defend oly at all? When you read this threead and saw there were 15 or more replies, did you expect all to bash oly and claim how much they suck?
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 11:27:37 PM EDT
Good grief. What crap. I'm glad I have a Bushy.....oh wait, sorry. I meant to say that I'm glad I HAVE AN AK-74

themao
_________________________

Got ice picks?
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 11:41:26 PM EDT
Wow! Scary stuff!

Had you not noticed the crack in the upper receiver, I believe that the rifle would have fired safely anyway, being that the end part of the receiver just holds the barrel in place, by means of the barrel nut.
It is the bolt that locks into the end part of the barrel, and that part looks OK from your pics.
Instead, if it was off for some reason, the bolt wouldn't lock up correctly, and you couldn't fire the rifle.

However, I would not like to try that stunt personally to find out.

Good thing nobody was hurt.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 11:59:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2002 12:23:57 AM EDT by 82ndAbn]
Hoplite, I understand wanting all of the details of an obviously terrible ordeal. Sometimes its difficult to believe that something like this could easily happen to any of us.

However, our mind sets and the words we type don't always coincide - its happened to all of us. You intend to ask a legitimate question, but it turns out being perceived as a challenge.

I can absolutely vouch for Speedwayrn. He is highly respected at our place of employment and always regarded as an authority of our profession. In highly tense situations, people naturally depend on those they can trust - this occurs on a regular basis with him.

John (Speedwayrn) is highly regarded because people who know him, know he can be trusted in any situation.

If John tells me something - I KNOW its the truth - period.
Link Posted: 11/23/2002 1:59:03 AM EDT
What were you doing when it broke in half?

IE where you loading it?

Aiming?

It looks to me like the upper may have had some sort of defect in the highest stress area of the upper receiver, that repetative stress of the bolt slamming into the barrel caused the upper receiver to basically disntergrate.
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