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Posted: 10/26/2002 11:35:35 AM EDT
Hi all

Im loking to pick up a pss. too many great reviews not to get one. I saw one at fun show in Big Town. It was around 639 i think. Im also considering the ltr, but that one was 699. Im not a big fan of the stock that is one there now. It is nice, but i like the "thumbhole" style a little bit better. I saw a choate style one for 150. Any remommdations on stocks? Is the LTR a better rifle?

thanks
lojack
Link Posted: 10/26/2002 12:11:11 PM EDT
IF you're going to get a PSS and change the stock anyway, get a VS. They're the SAME thing (at least in .308)and you'll save about $150, although $639 is a great price. If I were going for a .308 I'd lean to the PSS over the LTR. The extra length on the barrel will help add velocity for 800+ yards shots. In a .223, I'd probably go with the LTR. Realistically you won't be shooting over 400 yards with a .223 so the 20" tube would be fine. I'd look at the LOD (stands for Line of Departure, a company that made custon sniper rifles run by Billy Martin, company's now defunct....divorce) stock made by McMillan. I think tacticalstocks.com has 'em on sale, and it's a WAAAAAY better stock than the Choate thing. In general, I'm NOT a fan of thumbhole stocks, but if'n I were to get one it'd be the LOD. Check out the VS in .308 first, you might find that stock more to your liking. In general, either the PSS, LTR or VS have a better quality stock (HS precision makes 'em) than the Choate anyway. No sense downgrading.
Hope this helps.
Rich
Link Posted: 10/26/2002 2:03:46 PM EDT
humm is there a message board like this one for precision rifles?
Link Posted: 10/26/2002 2:18:34 PM EDT
Yes there is one here under the armory. Better yet go to snipercountry.com's duty roster. there's just about everything you'd want to know about "tactical" rifles there. Most of the regular "hawgs" there are current or retired USMC, SWAT, SF etc. Great guys.
Later,
Rich
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 12:08:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2002 12:10:30 AM EDT by Tate]
Choate stock on a PSS??

WTF, over?

Kind of like sandblasting a nib SP1, then polishing the aluminum to make it shiney.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Do some research.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 12:17:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2002 12:17:33 AM EDT by schapman43]
Save yourself a few bucks and get a VS. Same rifle except for the stock and finish.
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 9:14:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2002 9:23:08 AM EDT by lojack]
i will check on teh VS model. Thanks for the advice. Is there anything different in the vs and the pss other than the stock. Are the triggers the same on the two rifles and it seems as if the barrels are the same. It is hard to tell from the pics and the remington site doesnt have the info that im looking for.


thanks for the pic too.
Thanks again for the info
lojack
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 9:51:02 AM EDT
lojack,

The only difference between the PSS series and the VS series is the stock.Everything else is the same(except the price).The PSS stock is wider and more rounded down the forearm, and the palm swell is a lot wider like a target stock.The VS stock slimmer.More high speed, low drag lolol.other then that, the VS doesn't come with a detachable mag.HTH. Skullboy.
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 12:21:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2002 12:24:49 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
Don't forget that the "P" in 700P stands for "parkerized".
www.remingtonle.com/home/le_tips.htm
"1) The "P" beside the model Model 870P, Model 11-87P or Model 700P stands for "parkerized" not "police". While there are no blued finish versions of Model 11-87P or Model 700P models, there are still several Model 870P models that utilize blued finishes."



The VS is matte blued, not parkerized.
The stocks are slimmer, as mentioned.

Pretty much the same as a PSS(700P) after that, except for the fact the box your rifle comes in says it's a Police model.
I'd stick it out for the PSS just to have the intrinsic value if you ever sell it.
If you change the stock, keep the original with the box.
Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 12:44:31 PM EDT
Actually the new PSS's ain't Parked (unfortunately). It's just a sprayed on finish anymore. I guess Remmy doesn't think most people will know the diff. My .308 PSS (about 4 years old) has a fairly nice Park job, while my .223 PSS has a fairly "cheesy" spray on attempt at faux Parkerizing. I actually had to rub it down with CLP and 0000 stell wool because it had a sparkly glitterey effect.
Other than the stock (and the "blackened" bolt) the PSS is the same as the VS. However the new VS's have the little lock thingamabob. That can be retrofitted for about $60.
If you're changing the stock (like I said earlier, if you have your heart set on a thumb-hole type, check out the McMillan LOD at tacticalstocks.com. I just checked and he still has 'em for $250....a GREAT price for a McMillan...Don't even LOOK at the Choate) get the VS. If not get the PSS. Also, as stated earlier, if you go to a shop/range and handle both, that would help you decide.

Later,
Rich
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 4:45:15 PM EDT
My $0.02 is to say PSS and VS are NOT the same. I own 6 PSSs and several VSs as well (I just love Remmys). My empirical evidence,despite what Rem might say, is that there are two differences worth note (except the stock we all, know about). I can lighter the trigger on all my PSSs lower than on the VSs, down to about 1lb even. Can't get the VSs below 2lbs. The throat length on the PSSs ARE SHORTER than VSs and other 700s, typically in the 0.080 - 0.120 range. VSs and other 700s are in the 0.300 to 0.400 range. Therefore, typically the PSSs shoot a little better in the right hands. Might be academic as it is typically the difference between 1/4 MOA and 3/8 MOA with good handloads. I have a friend who shot 1000yd with his 20" LTR in 308. Did it as a goof but shoots 5" groups at that distance. Now takes it seriously. I can get 0.5" to 0.75" groups at 300yds with mine, the same as my 26" PSS. PSS shoots more rounds before heating tha the LTR, simply more barrel metal to act as heatsink. Again, just my $0.02.
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 5:18:06 PM EDT
I just picked up a like new .308 VS with a Springfield Armory 6x40 .308 Government scope for $600. How did I do?
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 5:20:23 PM EDT
VS rifles are built on the regular production manufacturing line. PSS and LTR are built in the Custom Shop from hand-selected parts. 40X and M21 are built in the Custom Shop from hand-fitted parts. Custom Shop gunsmiths are among the best in the industry. These are the guys with pictures of rifles on the wall of their work area. They live and breathe precision rifles and you pay for it.
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 5:30:07 PM EDT
i must say, this has beed one of the best reads in a long time. I love all three. I love the fact that so many owners already love the trigger that comes on it. saved some bucks there. i think that after reading Wryfox1 comments and others, i think that i will have to save for the pss. eventhough i have seemed to have luck with stock parts, i must go for the pss. hopefully i can use this rifle in the future for competition. but that will be a few months or years away.

thanks again for all the great info
lojack
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 6:11:35 PM EDT
Has Remington changed the way they build the 700PSS Line? As far as I knew from numerous rifle tests in well respected magazines and websites (Sniper Country for one), and even Remington themselves, the PSS and VS barrelled actions are one in the same and come off the regular production line.I am very interested to hear where they really are built.I've got 2 PSSs( 1 in .308Win and 1 in .300WinMag.) and 1 VS(.308Win)
, and they all shoot great (Even after I cut the VS back to 20").

Inquiring minds must know.

Skullboy
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 7:20:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skullboy:
Has Remington changed the way they build the 700PSS Line? As far as I knew from numerous rifle tests in well respected magazines and websites (Sniper Country for one), and even Remington themselves, the PSS and VS barrelled actions are one in the same and come off the regular production line.I am very interested to hear where they really are built.I've got 2 PSSs( 1 in .308Win and 1 in .300WinMag.) and 1 VS(.308Win)
, and they all shoot great (Even after I cut the VS back to 20").

Inquiring minds must know.

Skullboy



Can't speak for any such well-respected internet sites or gun rags but one of our members who's a gunsmith reported after taking a tour of Remington's factory last year. He detailed the differences between rifles built with hand-selected parts requiring some hand-fitting and truly hand-fitted parts.
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 7:39:53 PM EDT
The PSS is not a custom shop gun, otherwise it would be much more expensive than the VS which it's not (the extra money is for the "extra" stock). The PSS (in .308) is the exact same barreled (a $30 factory barrel at that) action as the VS. Not to say that they won't shoot (I love mine), but they are NOT custom shop guns. That hand-fitting would put them in the realm of 40X's. No way Remmy would sell a hand-fitted (not to mention high-demand) custom shop gun for $700-ish. NO WAY.
And yes, I think they have changed the way they make them. I think they're not as good as they were. Like I said earlier I love mine, but my .223 (purchased last year) has a much cruder "Park" job (sprayed on finish that was actually a kind of textured glittery appearance)than my .308. Lately I've been hearing lots of complaints about the QC at Remmy (chambers being out of line with the bore, NO rifling in the last 3.5" of the barrel, and personal witnessing of a crown that looked like a freakin' cheese-grater....hardly custom shop material let alone hand selected and hand fitted). Remmy is good about fixing stuff though. It seems ever since Stren took 'em over, they got thier priorities a bit off. Get the PSS, VS or seriously consider the Winchester Stealth. One of the regulars on snipercountry recently put it well "....look on any of the auction sites etc., there's a reason you see so many PSS's for sale and hardly NO Stealth's....."
Just a thought,
Rich
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 9:11:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2002 9:14:46 PM EDT by Arock]
Read my post again about the difference between hand-selected and hand-fitted parts.

Could be the reason there aren't many Stealths for sale is nobody buys them in the first place. That said my Winchester Custom Shop Mod70 .300 WM is a tack driver.
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 6:38:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2002 6:43:14 AM EDT by Trumpet]
Arock,
I realize the difference between the hand-fitted, hand-selected thing. I'm just saying that the PSS's and LTR's aren't custom shop guns. Otherwise they'd be priced like it. They might be hand selected as in "...Hey pal, we gotta make more PSS's today. Yank 100 VS actions...". They aren't selecting them in terms of picking the parts with the tightest tolerances though (after all if they were hand selected, how would that explain the rough crowns, missing rifling etc.). It's not like the old days of 1903's being hand selected for accuracy (old star guaged barrels etc.)
Believe me, the Stealths fly off the shelves, as they should. I know several guys that have sold their PSS's to get 'em. Great barrels (much smoother than a factory Remmy...then again most are ), great stock and a nice trigger from the factory. Know of a guy who won his state's 1000 yd competition with one box stock (then again he may have been the ONLY competitor).
Wryfox,
As far as the throat of the PSS and LTR being different, it just ain't so, once again the production costs of producing a different throat would show up in the price (ala 40X).
Methinks theres a bit of exaggeration about your friends groups. 5" at 1000yds? c'mon. If that's the case why aren't benchresters shooting out of the box PSS's since his groups are better than what most $4000 bench guns can do at 300 and 1000 yards?
Later,
Rich
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 8:31:38 AM EDT
Trumpet, I'll ping Remmy and see if they'll answer anything about production methods.

About the number of various rifles for sale... the number of rifles for sale isn't any kind of gauge of the quality or desirability. The sheer difference in numbers of 700 Remingtons in use versus M70 Winchester (or any other manufacturer for that matter) dictates there will be MANY TIMES the number of Remmys for sale at any given time. Logic could dictate the larger number of Remmys for sale is a positive indication of quality as well. Kinda hard to make that association.
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 9:47:21 AM EDT
Guy's,

Here is the real skinny. The PSS comes off the same production line as the varmint. When ever Rem re-tools they make the run for the PSS and take the upper percentage that test fires the best. The LTR's do come from the custom shop. As far as the stocks....well Hmmmm. Block bedding or pillar bedding? McMillen vs HS. Chevy vs. Ford.

PSS, longer range up to 800m....You better be a pro.

I have a LTR .308. Nightforce NXS, Badger (8x40 tapped) rings, and base. Fact stock. Trigger job and some lapping. 3 Shoots one hole @ 100y.

What ever you do, don't get cheap rings and base.


Jim
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 9:54:02 AM EDT
Lojack,
Nobody else seems to have covered this, so I will. Both models come with an H-S Precision stock with aluminum bedding bar. The stock by itself goes for about $365. And you want to replace it with a $150 Choate?? No sense there.
You need a little more research.
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 9:55:09 AM EDT
Hey texasjim

any recommendations on base and rings? how much and and where to get? im oretty new to rem 700, sorry for the lame questions?

thanks
lojack
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 10:02:04 AM EDT
yea i have pretty much given up on the stock. since i have to get mount and rings, i would rather spend that money on that and use a decent scope for now.

thanks
lojack
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 10:19:18 AM EDT
lojack,

SWFA www.riflescopes.com

First get your receiver drilled and tapped to accept 8x40s. Make sure a competent gunsmith dose this!

Rings: Badger Ord. 165.00
Base: Badger Ord. 120.00

There are other rings and bases which are comparable ie., DD Ross & Leupold Mk 4

Jim

Link Posted: 10/28/2002 10:20:54 AM EDT
Arock,
I realize that the number of rifles for sale doesn't reflect quality, but it certainly can reflect desireability. For example, look at the demand for the 17HMR, doesn't mean it's good, just means a lot of people want it. Now, if the demand is still astronomically high in a year or two, well then maybe it's that good. the same thing happened with the Stealth. When they first came out a lot of people weren't too hip on it, after all, the 70 HBV wasn't broken so why fix it? The HBV had/has a phenomenal reputation for accuracy, so naturally people were skeptical and Winnie released them in fairly conservative numbers. Well, it has proven itself many times over and now Winnie can't make 'em fast enough. I didn't mean to infer comparing the Win 70 Stealth to ALL Rem 700's, just the Stealth vs.the PSS.
As far as rings and bases go, I'd go with Badger all the way. D.D. Ross is fantastic too, but mucho dinero and hard to get ahold of. If Badger is too rich for your blood, teh IOR stuff is pretty nice too and probably the best for a budget. I've heard good things about the new Ken Farell stuff too.

Later Fellas,
Rich
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 10:26:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2002 10:34:33 AM EDT by Arock]
Yo, Trumpet... I was reading somewhere on the site that Stealth wasn't available in .308 anymore. If true what's that all about? Is somebody preemptively taking all the .308's?

**Edited to add I just visited Winchester's site and it appears you can't get ANY .308, 7mm-.08 or .243 Model 70's from Winchester right now. Strange.
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 10:43:00 AM EDT
The Remington is already tapped and drilled. Any extra drilling and tapping is a lot of holes in a small area.
I have a Weaver base and Millett rings on mine (PSS in .308 and VS is .22-250). I am still trying to get my loads to the one ragged hole stage. My PSS has a Weaver Grand Slam 6-20. The VS has a Weaver Classic 4-16.
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 10:47:26 AM EDT
Lojack,

Also make sure the rifle case you get is top quality. Starlight Cases (ask for Brock..excellent customer service) are the cases which I have had the best luck with.

Like the AR, the precision bolt gun can also get expensive.

Jim
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 10:54:22 AM EDT
Mr Tiger,

Re-drill and tap the existing holes to 8x40....sorry my mistake, I should have been more specific. Those bases in which I mentioned should line up with the fact holes.

Jim
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 11:50:46 AM EDT
The LTR is a great little rifle. I got mine several years ago, when they were introduced. Remington has been having quality control problems as of late. So bad that they are subletting their warranty repairs to outside sources. You send them something for warranty work and they might send it to "Joe's Gun, Tackle, & Bait Shop" for the work. Hint- anytime you have to send something to them insist on in-house Remington repair work. I've got no gripe against Remington, just stating a fact!

Remington, Winchester, and most production gunmakers make their product in production runs. This means that the line may be running .308 barrels this month and .243's next. This means that if they are out of stock on the particular caliber or model (at the factory) they will be listed as N/A until the next production run.

As far as I can tell, all of the 'P' models are no longer Parkerized. I believe that Remington has been using some sort of proprietory 'spray and bake' finish, such as Gun-Kote and many others. Costs less! There is no special trigger work, throating, bedding, etc. done on the 'P' models. Except for finish, there's no difference on the metal between the VS and the PSS.

The main reason that the PSS costs more to the general public than does the VS is primarily due to the fact that Remington will sell the 'P' models only to their LE Dealers. Those LE Dealers can choose to sell them to any licensed dealer after that. That dealer can then sell them to non-LE buyers. See the double mark-up? Also, some people are more than willing to pay through the nose for that "LE Only" mystique!

When all is said and done, the Winchester Stealth is the 'hot setup' as far as over-the-counter LR rifles are concerned. The M700 action remains the overwhelming favorite for custom built LR and Tac rifles, however. As one very busy builder of custom TAC rifles related to me, the reason that he started to build on M700 actions exclusively is that they're the most asked for, he can stay tooled-up strictly for them, keep a larger parts inventory that includes more types and brands of parts, and because of these reasons he can deliver them faster. He's now 12 to 18 months waiting time on his orders, stated in advance. This rifle-builder & competitor shoots what he builds, and wins very often. He added that if the Win. M70 action was the action of choice among his customers, he would build those exclusively instead, because once worked-over there's not much difference in accuracy or quality between the two. This craftsman used to build both but the sheer volume of the M700 orders and the fact that he runs a one-man shop forced him into making a choice.

Choate - Just Say No!
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 4:06:40 PM EDT
man u wouldnt believe this. I called the business that has the rifle. They qouted me a higher price (by 60 bucks or so) if i bought the rifle from the store. I told the guy that at the show it was cheaper. His reply was that the owner has 2 inventories and that the show inventory was the cheaper of the 2. is this guy for real? they would rather turn a customer that might have seen them at a show and charge them more if they come to get stuff from their store. This seems kinda odd. has anyone else experienced this before. I know that places offer "show specials" but come on. that price is a rip off.

Link Posted: 10/28/2002 4:59:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2002 5:09:21 PM EDT by Trumpet]
lojack,
Sounds like a sheister to me, run away and don't look back. I've had tremendous luck buying from dealers on line and doing FFL transfers (just make sure to always pay with a postal m/o, that way if they try to shaft you, it's felony mail fraud...baaad juju). Go here http://www.snipercountry.com/forsale/Display_Message.asp?Message=0000004837.txt He has the best prices I've seen on Rem Police rifles. Check it out, I bought both of mine from him and he's great.

McBoingBoing,
Well said,

Arock,
what McBoingBoing said about the production runs is what I meant. He said it more betterer than I could [:0]

Later,
Rich
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 7:51:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2002 8:21:11 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
lojack:

Call the dealer back and tell him he just lost a potential customer on this deal.
I'd shop elsewhere AND pay more money just to NOT deal with the guy you spoke with.

A year or so ago I was hot for the LTR and then started to rethink what I wanted out of the gun.
Being able to restore it to its original form or go to making it a 'custom heavy' was factored into my choice.
I then decided to go for the PSS full size unit.

After considering what I wanted to do, I built my 700PSS to work for me as a lighter and easier to hang on to accurate .308 bolt-action that could utilize the 'enhanced power' ammo with the full 26" bbl.
It was intended from the beginning to be like this.
I was not trying to build a rifle that was suited for military field work, so going with the extra heavy duty and heavier parts was factored out.
The gun was not to be a "wannabe sniper rifle" and therefore would not need to appear as the real deal nor did I want it to.
The gun was to be, if anything, "JOE CITIZEN'S" rifle for the ever popular 'SHTF' scenario...

I wanted to save weight everywhere I could, save for the nose heavy bbl., an acceptable necessity.
After choosing my parts for weight savings, I was successful in getting everything except for the Mounting Solutions scope base. It was out of stock, but will be purchased directly from the company sometime in the near future.
I used a Leupold Mk4 base instead.

The stock I intended to use was the Hogue (yes, a $150 stock!) because it was what I wanted to use.
Oh, and it has ONLY ONE swivel stud...
The fit was very good and it is lighter and much easier to hold on to than the H-S Precision factory stock. Perfect.
I chose the pillar bedded version to save 5 oz. The difference in accuracy vs. the bedding block didn't justify the extra $ or weight for MY project.

The scope is a Leupold Tactical 1" 4.5-15x40 with 2.5" shade; Tenebraex anti-reflection device and Butler Creek flip-ups.
The rings were carefully chosen for height and clearance and the ability to remove/replace the scope easily, so, I chose the new Weaver Grand Slam steel units in medium.
I pored over the specs in Brownells and other catalogs to find the right set up to give me the fit I needed.
They are strong enough for my intended use, which is NOT what a military user would be doing.
The scope sits a CH or 2 above the bbl. without touching. Plenty of clearance, but it IS low, like I wanted it.
Bottom line is much weight and $$$ savings.

The bipod is the non-swivel Harris BR, again for a weight savings of a whopping 3 oz. Probably doesn't do anything good for the gun but prop it up for pretty pictures.
The sling is a 1 1/4" nylon carry strap by Uncle Mike's.

The end result may have saved me a couple of pounds and made the gun a bit more portable for ME.
Thanks to Ned at Mounting Solutions; Scott at snipercountry.com; and Chris at Hogue for encouraging me to build a rifle that best suited my needs vs. what everyone else thought.

All the above was intended to assist you, not hijack your thread. Please accept my effort as a genuine gesture to help you in your decision.
All the guys here on AR15.com have kicked in to muddle my thoughts while in the decision making process, and they did a great job!
Look what I ended up with:
Before --


After --- (with its stablemate)


Man, I love this place!!!



Link Posted: 10/29/2002 8:18:20 PM EDT
BusMaster007
may i ask how much you spent total? building like that might be an option if the price is right. Sweet pair.

thanks
lojack
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 3:42:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lojack:
BusMaster007
may i ask how much you spent total? building like that might be an option if the price is right. Sweet pair.

thanks
lojack



lojack:

About $1300 total, including the scope.
Wholesale prices on a couple of items and a good deal on that NIB scope helped keep the cost down.
Thanks for the compliment.
Good luck and have fun with your project.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 7:41:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 7:45:29 AM EDT by Trumpet]
Hey guys,
One of the "hawgs" from sniper country emailed me this. He tried to post here but couldn't so here it is....I'm just forwarding this for him.....

"BusMaster007...

The "P" does NOT stand for parkerized...it stands for POLICE. I have had many PSS rifles, and some time in the late '80's were parkerized in a very dark green...but that was a long time ago. For the past 8-ish years, they are finished in a powder coat paint that is baked on (like bicycle frames). You will occasionally find one that has been sittng in the back with parkerizing, but that is a thing of the far far past.

I have a 12ga 870-P and an 12ga 1187-P. Both came in the "police" boxes, new, and are black matte anodized, not parkerized. the barrels are sand blasted, and then blued.

"P" means "Police"

-

PSS and LTR's are NOT built in the custom shop...IF they came out of the custom shop, they would be $1,950 (the cheapest kevlar stocked rifle they make). They are off the line barreled actions, with a spray finish, in a different stock. The barrels cost about $25 (Remington's own statement). There is NOTHING special, or CUSTOM about them.

The triggers are the same as the VS (both need work)

IF...you read Remington's websit CAREFULLY, you will see that the 700-P is not made in the custom shop...they recommend (for police) that if more accuracy is needed, that they buy a 40-XB from the custom shop.

All this crud is just myths.

Remington does NOT make the M21...that is a Springfield product...Rem does make the M-24...it was not made in the custom shop. It was made in a seperate facility, with non Remington barrels (Rock 5R barrels)

-

ARock...

>"Could be the reason there aren't many Stealths for sale is nobody buys them in the first place."<

You could not be more wrong if you tried.


The Stealths are made in several full production runs each year. They are glass bedded at the factory, and use barrels from outside sources, like Douglas, and wilson...they are one of the hardest production rifles to find, because they are sold out before they are made. The .308 Stealth is rare because many tactical, police, and long-range shooters are going to them, after problems with 700PSS's.

The Utah 1000 yard state match was won with a 308 Stealth out of the box, with just a trigger adjustment!

On SniperCountry, I casually mentioned that I was thinking of selling one of my 308 Stealths (I had 3), to finance a new 300WM I was building...in the next hour, I got 17 e-mails asking for it...I took the highest offer. $125 over what I paid for it 3 years before.

You can get a PSS any day of the week...not so with the Stealth. You will have to work for it.

-

Wryfox...

>"I can lighten the trigger on all my PSS's lower than on the VS's, down to about 1 lb even. Can't get the VS's below 2lbs."<

The triggers are the same!

>"the throat length on the PSS's ARE SHORTER than the VS's and other 700s, typically in the 0.080-0.120 range. VS's and other 700s are in the 0.300 to 0.400 range."<

the throats on current (last 10 years) PSS's will take a Matchking seated out to 3.2" to 3.3" (that's about 1/2" too long!)

>"I have a friend who shot 1000yd with his 20" LTR in 308. Did it as a goof but shoots 5" groups at that distance. Now takes it seriously. I can get 0.5" to 0.75" groups at 300yds with mine, the same as my 26" PSS."<

With 5" groups at 1000yds, and 1/2" groups at 300, both of you guys should be shooting 1000 yard benchrest...you are shooting TWICE as good as the best of the experienced shooters with 40 pound/$4000 rifles...and you only spent $700! Not too bad.

'Lito"

that's what he tried to post the other day, I thought I'd forward it for him....

Later,
Rich
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 6:52:29 PM EDT
well sat is almost here and i cant wait. I will do some shopping around, but i think that the pss will win unless i find one sweet deal on a vs. I have thought about getting a reg. 700 and replacing the barrel and stock. but by the time i add that up, it cost more than a pss. i would like to thanks all of the members that have given me some great advice.

thanks again
lojack
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:18:31 AM EDT
lojack,
Get the PSS from Tony at Town Polioce Supply in VA. At $649 it's a steal. Just go to your local 'smith (I use a 'smith because they almost always charge less for an FFL transfer than full blown "shops"...around here my smith charges $15 while the shops charge $50...big difference) and get a signed copy of his FFL. Send it to Tony with a POstal money order for the amount. A couple days later you'll have your $640 PSS. Easy as pie. Go here.

http://www.snipercountry.com/forsale/Display_Message.asp?Message=0000004837.txt

Tony is a great guy to deal with.
Have fun,
Rich
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 2:17:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet (and then condensed by TheOtherChris):
Hey guys,
One of the "hawgs" from sniper country emailed me this. He tried to post here but couldn't so here it is....I'm just forwarding this for him.....

"BusMaster007...

The "P" does NOT stand for parkerized...it stands for POLICE.

-

PSS and LTR's are NOT built in the custom shop...

The triggers are the same as the VS (both need work)

Remington does NOT make the M21
-

ARock...

>"Could be the reason there aren't many Stealths for sale is nobody buys them in the first place."<

You could not be more wrong if you tried.


The Stealths are made in several full production runs each year. They are glass bedded at the factory, and use barrels from outside sources, like Douglas, and wilson...they are one of the hardest production rifles to find, because they are sold out before they are made. The .308 Stealth is rare because many tactical, police, and long-range shooters are going to them, after problems with 700PSS's.

The triggers are the same!

the throats on current (last 10 years) PSS's will take a Matchking seated out to 3.2" to 3.3" (that's about 1/2" too long!)


'Lito"

that's what he tried to post the other day, I thought I'd forward it for him....

Later,
Rich



As I was reading through that post, I thought it sounded like Pablo.
He turned me on to Winchester about 3 years ago, and I have never been sorry.

They're wonderful right out of the box, and the triggers are so easily adjustable as to make you wonder why more people don't shoot them.

The Other Chris
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 5:40:46 PM EDT

"BusMaster007...

The "P" does NOT stand for parkerized...it stands for POLICE.



I got this information directly off the Remington Law Enforcement site.

This is the link to the Home Page:

www.remingtonle.com/home/le_home.htm

The green box with the picture of Greg Foster that says 'Greg Foster's L.E. Tips' "Tips and facts from the Law Enforcement man himself" is where you want to click onto next.

The link to that page is:
www.remingtonle.com/home/le_tips.htm

Note that down the page it is stated, under 'FIREARMS', #1. ---

The "P" beside the model Model 870P, Model 11-87P or Model 700P stands for "parkerized" not "police". While there are no blued finish versions of Model 11-87P or Model 700P models, there are still several Model 870P models that utilize blued finishes.

What'd ya think? I was making this up?
That's where I got the information.
Whatever you or anyone else says, THAT is what Remington says.
I can see that there is a 'Winchester vs. Remington' thread in the near future...

I appreciate the experience and knowledge of the sources for the comments made on a rifle made for a true sniper.
I don't pretend to be an expert on any of that.
Merely making sure my statement was backed up.

Now, about that thread I mentioned...


Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:25:26 PM EDT
i must say that this has been the best thread in a long time. wow what a lot of info. i will post my finds tomorrow. and a winchester vs remington will be a good thread too.

later
lojack
Link Posted: 11/30/2002 12:59:35 AM EDT
busmaster007-

Are there any good long ranged ranges in western wa that you know of?

Oz
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 6:35:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2002 6:37:56 PM EDT by brianksain]
Lojack:

You have gotten some good information here.

DD Ross mounts rock as do Badger Ordnance.
Please tell Dan Ross or Marty Bordsen that I sent ya.

The AICS from Accuracy International is very nice but pricey if you just have to have a thumbhole. KISS simple to install.

Do not buy a DM Remington. They have been discontinued because they sucked. They were a cheaply produced item to compete with a perceived notion that a bolt gun needs a detachable magazine. Read: Rem trying to make $$$. Design sucked. Parts were cheap crap. Didn't function half the time. 700 was designed as a floorplate gun. They work well that way. Only the well engineered and more expensive detachable mag conversions are worth fooling with. i.e. Accuracy International, HS Precision, etc.

Was always under the impression that PSS stood for Police Sniper System not Parkerized Shooting Stick.

fosterga@remington.com

I would also suggest that if you run across one of the older green guns, snatch it up. I have yet to see one that did not shoot half minute or better.

They had 24" bbls instead of the newer 26".

The LTRs are just fine. They are handy as a hatchet and out to 6, the target will never know the difference. Just depends what you want it to do.

The Stealth is worth every penny if you can find one.

Just my 2, but I am nobody.
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 8:20:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ozmodiar:
busmaster007-

Are there any good long ranged ranges in western wa that you know of?

Oz



I belong to the Wildlife Committee of Washington, Inc., aka, "KENMORE GUN RANGES".
We have a 300-yd. range for members.
I don't compete, YET.

There are probably other ranges with equal or longer yds. to shoot on, but, as a mere non-competition shooter, I wouldn't know where they are!
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