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Posted: 10/11/2002 12:04:58 PM EDT
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My department is currently researching Colt Commandos. We do not have any experience with this weopon. We currently shoot Colt A3s with 16" barrels. We have heard that there are problems with the 11.5" barrel. We have heard that accuracy with the 11.5" barrel is poor. We would like to know how well the weapon fares at distances less than 100 yards. We have heard that there are feed problems with the 11.5" barrel. If these problems exist do remedies sufficient to correct the problems also exist? Thank you for your input. |
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I've had a n XM177E2 forgery with a permanently attached "beer can" style muzzle device on an 11.5 inch barrel for nearly 30 years. Accuracy? about the same as when it had a 16" barrel. With decent ammo (usually my own handloads) 1 1/2 to 2 minutes out to 200 meters. Beyond that??? I don't bother to try it. Now this is with the old 1in12 twist barrel and 55 grain bullets. What the short barrel will do with todays faster twist(s) and heavier bullets, I can't say. Reliable function? The only problem I've ever had was when the extractor spring wore out after 20 years. Using the new heavier spring assy. cured that. Was it me, I'd hang on to the 16 inch barrel units you currently have. The improvement in terminal ballistics is far more important (to me at least) than the 4.5 inch shorter load. As a security officer/armorer at a federal agency, I have to deal with our unit not having any rifled barrel shoulder arms (pistols and shotguns only), while we cover a 150 acre facility with open spaces up to 300 meters long. What sits in the trunk of my car is an M4gery with a 16 inch barrel, not the short barrel piece. Enough said? 
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Thanks for the information. The reason we considered the 11.5" barrel is for interior work inside buildings, apartments, etc. as well as exterior containment work. Some of our people have used MP-5s on building clears and they did like the shorter weapon system. We were trying to see if we could have the best of both worlds. The weapons we purchase will be used by the general patrol population. |
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The original Colt Commando used a special flash hider that was actually a "muffler". This reduced the tremendous muzzle blast to about the same as the regular rifle. Some wags described this as the world's loudest silencer. They had some problems with flash hider life, and problems with the Carter administration not allowing the export of silencers, so Colt discontinued it. Most military units used the 13" barrel carbine as a good compromise between the 11.5" with the unavailable flash hider, and the 16" barrel. Some people have used the 11.5" with the standard short flash hider, but muzzle blast is unreal. The early 11.5" guns did have reliability problems, but they were fixed long ago. Most everyone has settled on the 16" barrel. |
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Been using a Bushmaster 11.5 for maybe 13yr. Only had to open port to .083 when new, fine ever since. I mostly use 52gr HP handloads, have shot 1" at 100 w/ cheap scope. With iron sight, I can do what I want, anything beyond 150 is scope stuff for me. Mine will eat most 62gr surplus also. Only thing to look to improve is be sure the extractor spring has the blue or black insert, or Wolff heavy duty spring. With an A1 or A2 flash hider, I get no fireball, though the "boom" is kinda mellow. You may even look into the 7.5", nothing like an inexpensive 223/556 in a mp5 size package, especially if you are already familiar with the particular firearm. |
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Thanks for the great information. We have been told that a Vortex flash hider will lessen muzzle blast but the bang will still be significant. We have not seen a 13". Is it production or after market? Does anyone know the muzzle velocity of the 11.5" compared to the 16"? |
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Unless you really need the 11.5" 733 you'd be better off going with the 14.5" Colt M4. The 733/commando is a speciality weapon not a general use carbine. Colt does not make a 13" barrel, they are however available in lengths ranging from 11.5"-20" for standard Milspec/style rifles. If you plan on buying the 733 you'll need to put a Vortex or Phantom type hider on them for entry use, as the flash and noise is pretty severe. The SWAT team of the agency I worked for had a Bushmaster set up with a 11.5" barrel, after it's first use it was equipped with a Gemtech suppressor as it was way to loud for indoor use---Food for thought--- |
| Do the 14.5", the 11.5 looses the magic 2700fps pretty darn quick. I am in the process of dumping my 11.5" upper (duty rifle) to go with a 14.5" upper. As an instructor for our department I didn't feel the couple inches was worth the loss of velocity. I also have a 16" that I often use to clear buildings and other CQB work. I find the 14.5" the best of all worlds. Even a hallway shot in a school can be too far for a 11.5" barrel (velocity not accuracy). |
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<Drool> I want this bad.....  Oh, ar15pigtail.com/ supposedly cures short barrel problems. |
The pigtail is a piece of junk. My mother tried one on her M-16 with the 11.5" upper and it didn't work for shit. She sent it to one of the guys on the subguns board to have a reliability package and he cleaned it right up. Go over to subguns and ask them about making a shorty reliable. In semi-auto only, no changes are needed for reliability. |
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"piece of junk"? yeah, sure. That is why Pigtail refunds are less than one per cent. Also why Brownells keeps selling more and more. regards to your mother; thanks for the free promo. www.m16pigtail.com |
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I have only seen one 11.5 in. ar. It was at a police carbine instructor course up here in WI. The class had m-14s, mini 14s. 20in, 16in,(pre&post ban) 14.5 in and one 11.5 flat top ARs in attendance. The 11.5 w/ meprolight reflex was having some extraction and ejection malfunctions. I don't remember the brand of ammo being used. None of the other weapons were having these problems. While this one weapon does not represent all 11.5in ars it did reinforce (for me) the rumor of the 11.5s not being as reliable as the longer barreled ars. We went w/ the telestocked 14.5in Bushmaster w/phantom flashhider and reliability has been 100% when maintained. One of our guys lubricated his rifle on the first day of week long carbine course then never cleaned or lubed it during the class. Late on Fri he started getting ejection malfunctions, after approx. 900 rounds. A few drops of break free on the bolt and he was back in business. We compared the bushmaster to the Fixed stock MP5 and found it only to be a few inches longer(overall) than the H&K. Bucky, I would recommend the 14.5in ar over the 11.5. not only for reliability but also because the .223 bullet performs better the faster it goes. Good luck. |
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