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Posted: 10/10/2002 7:45:41 PM EDT
nothing at all help-wise? thats really about the most you can generally conceal.

223 cant cut through it like it wasnt there...not possible, laws of physics an all. can it do any harm?

just wondering, as this crap gets closer and closer to home...
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 8:18:50 PM EDT
Just get a nice comfortable shirt instead, alot cheaper and more comfortable, and will provide just as much protection from the .223
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 8:49:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ken226:
Just get a nice comfortable shirt instead, alot cheaper and more comfortable, and will provide just as much protection from the .223



Well, maybe a sweater on top of the shirt.

You need a minimum of Level 3 to stop a .223. If you already have a II, put some lvl 3 trauma plates in the pockets (if it has any) and hope he doesn't take a head shot.

I should really give some credit for this image, but I can't for the life of me remember where I got it from...


Link Posted: 10/11/2002 5:36:04 AM EDT
level IV hard ballistic inserts should be able to stop .223 on their own, regardless of the threat level of the vest itself.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:59:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By e8ght:
level IV hard ballistic inserts should be able to stop .223 on their own, regardless of the threat level of the vest itself.



Ummm. I am looking through the NIJ 04 standard right now. I am pretty sure the purpose of a trauma plate is to fragment the round. I would like a level 2 vest (That has about 17 layers of SPECTRA in it) BEHIND the plate to catch the fragments of the round, as well as the shards of the trauma plate when it cracks...

Then again, I'm not too much of a cowboy anymore...
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 7:15:09 AM EDT
brouhaha, why are your heroes movie stars? I know John Wayne never served a day in his life. I don't know about Eastwood.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 10:08:47 AM EDT
You mean the John Wayne that was denied enlistment or the Clint Eastwood who was in the Army?
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 11:19:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
brouhaha, why are your heroes movie stars? I know John Wayne never served a day in his life. I don't know about Eastwood.



Jeez...it's a joke...
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 11:33:09 AM EDT
I thought John Wayne was booted out of the Marine corps, then reinstated due to his WWII films.
DA
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 12:49:50 PM EDT
Does anyone know if a level 2 or 3a vest would slow a .223 round to less than fragmenting velocities? So basically, the round won't tumble or fragment.

Or will it actually start the fragmentation process faster?
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 3:37:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sodie:
Does anyone know if a level 2 or 3a vest would slow a .223 round to less than fragmenting velocities? ...


Don’t know.

FWIW, I have shot level IIA vests with .223’s at close range and the rounds went through both the front and back panels!

I have heard of level IIIA Body Bunkers (shields) stopping rifle rounds in real life situations. Obviously, barrel length of the rifle, distance, angle, etc. can make a difference in whether or not a round actually goes through.

Once, I shot a .223 into a level IIIA vest with a thin trauma plate and the round was stopped (just barely). However, I’ve always felt that was a fluke. The vest in question was an old, thick, heavy and very stiff unit – certainly nothing like vests sold today.

If you want assurance that a vest will stop a .223, you need a level III.

While the run of the mill trauma plates found in soft body armor won’t do much as far as stopping rifle rounds, there are plates available that are rated for rifle rounds. They are both much heavier and more expensive than regular plates. Also, they don’t really protect much of your body (though sizes can vary).

Lastly, personal preference – but I’d stay away from anything made with Spectra!
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 4:41:27 PM EDT
there is no "soft" body armor that will prevent fragmentation or penetration of a .223 round (period). Even with a trauma plate, a .223 will easily go thru like a hot knife thru butter. A level III steel or ceramic plate are/should resist at least one direct hit. I have personally shot thru a level IIIa vest at around 40 yards and the round went clean thru the hard "trauma" plate, the soft spectra plate behind that, and both body panels of the vest.

I wish I had pics to show... the word devestating doesnt do it justice.

Most vest manufacturers produce a vest carrier that will take a front/rear 10x12 plate. You'll end up with about 12 extra pounds if steel, about 6/8 if ceramic/composite and they are not concealable (unless you're wearing a snow parka) lol..
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 7:33:58 PM EDT
I shoot IPSC with a bunch of LE. They brought out an expired (dated) level 2 vest, folded it over a few times (4 panels thick), hit it w/223....clean through. They shot it with a 38 Super round (9mm-115FMJ @ 1500+), went clean through.

The "trauma plate" is used to dissipate the kinetic energy of the impacting bullet and spread out the load/impact energy. You will still suffer a force trauma, but not as severe as without the plate. With out the plate, the trauma will be more central.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 8:50:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2002 8:57:14 PM EDT by DevL]
If you plan on using Spectra as a material for a vest please go to...

www.tacticalforums.com

Then do a search for "Spectra" in the Ground Zero forum and be ready for the worst news you have ever heard. I was actually shocked at what I read there. Spectra weaves loose all anti ballistic properties if heated above 180 Degrees. Leave it in the trunk on a hot day. Its gone. Spill super hot coffee on it. Its done. Let it set out int the sun on a hot side walk. Bye bye. Its just too fragile and easily disrupted by heat for my taste. Kevlar may be bulkier but it lasts a long time and so long as you keep the fibers dry it is good to go. Even if you get it wet once it dries its good to go. Once you heat Spectra it is gone forever.

Looks like Kevlar is still the only real choice for soft body armor...
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 6:15:44 AM EDT
There are several other fibers on the market that are helping reduce the weight of soft armor but still increase their strength. The true specta shield will work but is very stiff. There are other Spectra Fibers that are more flexiable and durable. None of them will stop rifle fire though. Soft armor has specific uses and that is what it should be used for.
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 5:21:23 PM EDT
Phone books and duct tape, the ultimate bullet-proof vest.
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